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Thread: T2 FM, "Bad Debts" (17/12/2007) (UPDATED 17/01/2016)

  1. #76
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2001
    Location: 0x0x0
    WOW that was most excellent. For a diehard climber like me that's about as fun as thief gets. Played expert but never found the key to exit. But a bit of climbing out of the box found me a nice stash and a way out! I love breaking missions!


  2. #77
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2003
    Location: Making Larry Miserable
    Having spent hours looking for the armourer, I realised I broke in well.... hours ago.

    Anyway just need some loot and the exit key.

    I have just jumped up to the balcony above the market stalls and found a plaque about the sorceror's tomb but what of it? Is there nothing else up there and where is the tomb?

    I need 400 loot any offers? and can someone tell me th exact location of the exit key on expert or the thieves' exit whatever that is!

    Sigh...

  3. #78
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2003
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Dude View Post
    Having spent hours looking for the armourer, I realised I broke in well.... hours ago.

    Anyway just need some loot and the exit key.

    I have just jumped up to the balcony above the market stalls and found a plaque about the sorceror's tomb but what of it? Is there nothing else up there and where is the tomb?

    I need 400 loot any offers? and can someone tell me th exact location of the exit key on expert or the thieves' exit whatever that is!

    Sigh...
    If you walk past the plaque back the way you came and look at the ground to your left, there's a metal grill and down below...

    If you can wake up the guy in the tomb, you can get more loot. Also later on in the mission, at the Hammer Seminary (the entrance 'high' up not on the ground, a priest will have some loot on him. On Expert you can either get the thieve's key or the highgate key to exit. For the highgate key, as you come into the closed off courtyard (low courts area) using the passageway high up (the passageway where you find the tomb) , look to your right. The highgate gate is located on your map.

  4. #79
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2005
    Location: Not Kansas
    WOW!!! And this was your first FM, Melan?! I most definitely cannot wait to play your second!!!!! Absolutely great FM; I love large city FMs (with nary a zombie or haunt to be seen, thank you ever so!). Lara Croft would have been challenged by some of those ledges, I tell you. Finished in two hours & 48 mins. and I want to start all over again. Wonderfully executed Melan; thanks for all your hard work, and once again, to all who may have contributed. We definitely need more FMs like this one; 2-plus hours well spent!



    So how's your second FM coming along, m'dear?

  5. #80
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: Jafaville New Zealand
    Wow!
    This missions features lots of little nooks and crannies to explore.

    I wonder if we will get to see a Version 2 of this FM with the pagan area in the cavern open.

    Also, what is this keeper compound I hear of?

    Oh and Melan:
    I don't kneel before false gods

  6. #81
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Germany
    Quote Originally Posted by bob_doe_nz View Post
    Also, what is this keeper compound I hear of?

    Oh and Melan:
    I don't kneel before false gods
    Keeper Compound:

    You found the dopefish but not Keywell? You should be seeing a certain square and work with the map...




    Regarding Loot:

    After gathering complete loot (I wouldn't have gotten the dead sorcereror "alive" without help, though)
    I found out that there is an "Extras" directory in the mission archive and in there a zip with a complete
    loot list...



    Opinion piece (without big spoilers):

    I agree with others that there are certain doors that look too inviting to make them blind but this could be
    solved by by making them at least unfrobbable or by a readable next to them.
    However, this is the only minor negative point I have about this terrific mission!

    It's extremely well designed with a great sense of spatial movement - jumping to and from gargoyles
    being only one of the highlights. Mantling and climbing makes the Thief games different to others
    out there and this mission shows why.

    The newer objects are well integrated and don't look out of place like so many donuts and cakes
    in certain other missions...
    What we have here is one of the rare cases of a T2 mission capturing the mood of one of the
    original T1 missions. Textures and music being two reasons, dark storyline and atmospheric
    readables that extend the mission well beyond the playground - with a brilliant choice of names
    for people and places and extremely well written notes (see Bridge or Keywell Note for example).

    Thanks for making this and I hope that you continue dromeding, Melan!

    Calibrator

  7. #82
    Classical Master 2008
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Location: Civitas Quinque Ecclesiae HU
    Quote Originally Posted by Dia View Post
    Absolutely great FM; I love large city FMs (with nary a zombie or haunt to be seen, thank you ever so!).
    Don't look too hard, then, because they might find you!

    So how's your second FM coming along, m'dear?
    At the moment, it is a rough map, some sketches of architectural features, and a few new texture families I am still grappling with (some things don't tile too well). I will announce things when I have progressed far enough with the FM to see the end of the tunnel. It will also be city-based, a bit smaller than Bad Debts, but with more water.

    Quote Originally Posted by Calibrator
    agree with others that there are certain doors that look too inviting to make them blind but this could be solved by by making them at least unfrobbable or by a readable next to them.
    I don't know, do you mean textures instead of objects? Because they are supposed to be unfrobbable, and last I checked, they were. Strange...

  8. #83
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Germany
    Quote Originally Posted by Melan View Post
    I don't know, do you mean textures instead of objects? Because they are supposed to be unfrobbable, and last I checked, they were. Strange...
    At least the cellar door in the usurer's house is frobbable, the much discussed door in the cave isn't
    but looks real and reacts to smashing against it.

    The problem with these good looking, physical doors is that the player automatically suspects
    them to be openable - and if they can't be opened by direct action (frobbing or using a key)
    the player could assume that a secret switch or some ritual opens it (especially with this
    mysterious altar in front of it)...

    That is of course a difficult situation for the designer: Either having good looking, mysterious doors
    or more or less ugly textures which the player never suspects to be functional.

    My idea of a readable isn't perfect either - it can actually motivate the player to further inquire
    about the door in question.

    Calibrator

  9. #84
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: Jafaville New Zealand
    Quote Originally Posted by Calibrator View Post
    Keeper Compound:

    You found the dopefish but not Keywell? You should be seeing a certain square and work with the map...
    If your referring to the abandoned area containing what looks like an old keeper area and a small amount of loot down the stairs with a scroll on keywell, I already have that. It was the first new areas I explored.

  10. #85
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Germany
    Quote Originally Posted by bob_doe_nz View Post
    If your referring to the abandoned area containing what looks like an old keeper area and a small amount of loot down the stairs with a scroll on keywell, I already have that. It was the first new areas I explored.
    Then you have already found it! But it was more than a small amount of loot, wasn't it?



    Calibrator

  11. #86
    Member
    Registered: May 2006
    Location: Scotland, doon the watter

    wheee, what fun.

    Just finished this mission. Please accept my highest praise.... the imaginary Garrett. (at present, only a figment of my imagination, but, given the Christmas hols, who knows, it may materialise someday).

    Seriously though, thanks for all the hours (yes, more than 3 !) of fun.

  12. #87
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2007
    Location: Cragscleft, Bedfordshire, Eng.
    Agree with lomondtaffer.
    Fantastic mission - can't believe it's your first.

    Excellent map, with plenty of places to explore. More please.....

    One question - what was the purpose of
    spoiler:
    the glyphs?

    I found a couple. Are there more?

  13. #88
    Clearinghouse
    Registered: Aug 2002
    Location: Siberia, Russia
    Really excellent CITY level
    I can't open this door. I have Public Works, Armourer's, Thieves, Pawnshop, Usurer's and Timms's keys. Help! Play on expert.

  14. #89
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: Somewhere other than Conwy
    Finished late last night. A very good mission Melan.

    It's been a very good month for FMs, and this one of the highlights for me.

    Still got a little more exploring I'd like to get done, and one or two places I can't figure out quite how to get to.

  15. #90
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2007
    Location: Cragscleft, Bedfordshire, Eng.
    Clearing, you need the
    spoiler:
    landlord's key

  16. #91
    Clearinghouse
    Registered: Aug 2002
    Location: Siberia, Russia
    Find Landlord's key! Finished. Cool mission. Big thanks, Melan!
    Questions: where dopefish and what was glyphs?

  17. #92
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2007
    Location: Canada
    Very fun mission. Like the others, I had really hoped that I could've explored the abandoned Keeper compound, or seen what was beyond the giant door in the caves below the Thief's hideout. However, one person can only do so much! The level was already giant.

    By the way, was there any significance to
    spoiler:
    "The Book of Smesh"
    ?

    9/10 for this one, easily.

    N

  18. #93
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2007
    Location: Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by lomondtaffer View Post
    I'm stuck at home with a cold
    Me too! I've been going nuts with Thief FMs myself.

    By the way, did someone say they'd spent 43 minutes in the cave area before finding a way out?

  19. #94
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: Jafaville New Zealand
    Quote Originally Posted by clearing View Post
    Find Landlord's key! Finished. Cool mission. Big thanks, Melan!
    Questions: where dopefish and what was glyphs?
    Dopefish is near the bar / tavern. Look around there for a high up area with a single lit torch. Chuck about four crates up there.
    To the left of the torch area is a wood portion you can rope arrow to, you then need to jump onto the tile roof and then jump again to the torch area.


    Climb using the crates and your there.

    As for the glyphs, they appear AFTER you complete the landlord objective I think.

  20. #95
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2003
    Quote Originally Posted by Quincy Jones Wannabe View Post
    By the way, was there any significance to
    spoiler:
    "The Book of Smesh"
    ?

    9/10 for this one, easily.

    N
    Apart from using it to complete an objective?

  21. #96
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2007
    Location: Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by shadows View Post
    Apart from using it to complete an objective?
    I suspected that's what it was for! Part of the objective is to
    spoiler:
    "drop it off at the authorities".
    Where exactly is that? The nearest I could find was an area across from Garrett and his landlord's respective flats, but nothing happened.

  22. #97
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Great. Now I can't get back in
    Quincy Jones Wannabe :
    spoiler:
    upstairs of the Hammerite cathedral.

    By the way, did someone say they'd spent 43 minutes in the cave area before finding a way out?
    That's in The Suffer Catalyst thread.

  23. #98
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2006
    Location: Nulli Secundi
    Absolutely fantastic mission.

    You got the look and feel JUST right.

    Thanks!!! Nice Christmas present to all of us 'taffers'.

  24. #99
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: France (Saint-Gobain)

    help

    this is a great mission with an excellent thief1 atmosphere, but i need help to complete this mission, i am supposed to steal something from timmy´s store and delivery to its appropiate authorities, what should i steal and where should i find the authorities?

  25. #100
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Great. Now I can't get back in
    cardia1 : just read this page

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