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Thread: T2 FM, "Bad Debts" (17/12/2007) (UPDATED 17/01/2016)

  1. #126
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2003
    Quote Originally Posted by jiansonz View Post

    The passage to Keeper Alley was protected by three mines. I could not find a way to get past them without blowing them up. Is there a way? Because I could sure have use for a couple of more mines...
    Yes. I jumped over them and then disarmed them. You need to jump high enough though...

  2. #127
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2002
    Location: Langenlebarn
    Gerhard Eichberger


    There are some unfrobable double-doors behind which I hear some haunts. I can't open this door. There are symbols of keys. I have thought that I have to shoot a broadhead arrow somewhere but this did not open the doors. The double doors are in the near of the place where three mines were lying on some crates. I opened a door and then I came to this place. How to get into that building with the double doors?


    Gerhard

  3. #128
    New Member
    Registered: Apr 2002

    Pawnshop key?

    I'm sure I'm overlooking something obvious, but can't find the key to the pawnshop. Any clues?

  4. #129
    Classical Master 2008
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Location: Civitas Quinque Ecclesiae HU
    Quote Originally Posted by ss1f View Post
    I'm sure I'm overlooking something obvious, but can't find the key to the pawnshop. Any clues?
    Sure, it is in the same area as the Usurer's key.

    More exactly: look under the table.

  5. #130
    Classical Master 2008
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Location: Civitas Quinque Ecclesiae HU
    Jiansonz, Esme, thank you for your commentary. In reply to your posts, unfortunately, Dromed's hard limits prevented me from further developing some areas - so unfortunately, you cannot visit the usurer's basement, Keywell, the Lower Locks, the area behind the underground Pagan door, the sewers, the back street beyond the Thieves' exit or the derelict area near Gloom Court. Some of these have to wait for later missions, which I hope to get to eventually. I really wanna do a FM set in the Old Quarter one day, that's a bit of a neglected art nowadays.

    Also, it looks like I will have to be more careful with those unfrobbable doors, as they are too inviting. I'll stick to textures next time (made from the textures of those same doors, probably ).

    On to specific points...
    Quote Originally Posted by jiansonz View Post
    It reminds me of a cross between the city in Assassins and the gameplay in The Haunted Cathedral (minus almost all the undead).
    This is precisely what I wanted to do, so no accident.

    Like some other players, the many unfrobbable doors confused me. I saved a lot of times and blasted open those doors (with a mine or with the 'Divine Endowment' (is there a specific purpose for this explosive charge, anyway?)).
    It is just a fun item to kill AI with. I once managed to blow up four without drawing attention to myself... just the charge, a mine and a bit of timing.

    Is there a way to open the gate (with lockbox close to it) near the beginning?
    spoiler:
    Yes, but only on Normal.


    spoiler:
    The keeper glyphs were confusing to me. Beyond...Foundation (or something). I could not make anything out of that. Comments?
    spoiler:
    It is a very vague hint to search underground, and an allusion to Jack Vance's Planet of Adventure novels. Also, a visible demonstration of Garrett losing his way with glyphs.


    spoiler:
    Speaking of keepers: is there a way to get into their abondoned place? What about the balcony with keeper windows in the other end of the alley? Any way up there?
    spoiler:
    For the former, no. For the latter, lotsa crates.


    spoiler:
    The passage to Keeper Alley was protected by three mines. I could not find a way to get past them without blowing them up. Is there a way? Because I could sure have use for a couple of more mines...
    spoiler:
    One tester managed to jump over them; I could never make it succeed, so it is easier to toss in a crate or bottle.


    spoiler:
    There is a high building with an open window (the building has a ladder up to what looks like a small pagan hideout if you walk to the right and around it). The room behind the window has one of those 'astronomy' banners on the wall. Any way in there?
    spoiler:
    Nope.


    spoiler:
    Also, this post starts to look like a declassified intel document. Boo!

  6. #131
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2003
    Location: Frederikssund, Denmark
    Melan,

    Thanx a lot for this phobia climbing adventure.
    Really good for a first timer.

  7. #132
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Sauerland
    Playing on expert could someone please tell me where exactly I can find
    spoiler:
    the cat?


    Im at the
    spoiler:
    closed off area in Low courts. That one with the Crazy crate Freak?


    I just cant find it...

    Thx,
    WW

  8. #133
    Classical Master 2008
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Location: Civitas Quinque Ecclesiae HU
    WildWilbur,
    spoiler:
    look carefully at the windowsills.

  9. #134
    New Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: Denmark
    Gorgeous mission. Loved the acrobatics to reach all those hidden places and the concept of a part of the city unreachable by most. Crazy Crate Guy! Well done!

  10. #135
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2000
    Thank you Melan for a truly memorable thief experience! Great atmosphere, terrific rooftop challenges, a remarkable first mission. Very much looking forward to your next one.

  11. #136
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Location: Tennessee
    Wow--I've spent five and a half game-hours in this mission (and probably at least two hours more than that counting unsaved game-play time)...this is one of the most immersive, complicated, and interesting missions I've played. Well done!

    I had some of the same questions as a lot of other people, but at least some of my questions were answered elsewhere in this thread. I do still have a few, though, that I don't see an answer to.

    First of all, I've found multiple bottles of holy water, which I can only imagine is in the mission because there are undead to use it on. Thanks to this thread, I now know how to wake up the entombed sorcerer, but I can't imagine he's the only reason for the two or three holy water bottles I've found--are there any other undead, and if so, how can I find them?

    Secondly, I've gotten to the Keywell area and gotten the loot there, but in the process I had to use two speed potions. I used one to make the jump from one of the statues above the Seeing Square to the Keeper statue in order to access the Keywell area, and I used the other to make the jump onto the raised platform with the ladder in the Keywell area where you can use rope arrows on the rafter ends to get to the roof of the Keeper compound where you find the loot. Given that I only had two speed potions to begin with, that means I'm stuck in the Keywell area because I can't make the jump back from the Keeper statue to the other statues above the Seeing Square because I can't make the jump without another speed potion. Is there another speed potion that I'm missing, or is there a way to accomplish what I did without using one or both speed potions?

    And finally, I saw someone ask this question a page or two back but I didn't see an answer--is it possible to open the "unopenable crate" in the Crazy Crate Guy's hideout?

    --Jennifer

  12. #137
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: Intarnet
    The jumps across Seeing Square are actually not hard to make just "normally" with no speed potions or anything. I jumped acorss the four of the many times and never used anything. Target your jump between the middle and the front edge and you should end up "catching" the edge and mantling up.

    Martek

  13. #138
    Classical Master 2008
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Location: Civitas Quinque Ecclesiae HU
    Indeed, you can jump across easily, just don't try to jump too far, and you will grab the edge.
    Holy water comes useful in the small tower on the city wall.
    The crate may not be opened.

  14. #139
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Location: Tennessee
    Quote Originally Posted by Melan View Post
    Holy water comes useful in the small tower on the city wall.
    I don't remember a tower in the city wall--what's it near? Or, to be less directly spoilerish, what quadrant of the map is it in?

    --Jennifer

  15. #140
    Classical Master 2008
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Location: Civitas Quinque Ecclesiae HU
    WhiteFantom,
    spoiler:
    It is found in the northwest.

    More accurately: on the city walls just west of the Coronet.

  16. #141
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: Intarnet
    Quote Originally Posted by Melan View Post
    WhiteFantom,
    spoiler:
    It is found in the northwest.

    More accurately: on the city walls just west of the Coronet.
    Ah yes, that place.

    I took care of that without holy water.

  17. #142
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2007
    How do I get inside Tomlinson's? I've
    spoiler:
    used a rope arrow to get to the balcony, but the door requires a key that I don't have.

  18. #143
    Classical Master 2008
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Location: Civitas Quinque Ecclesiae HU
    Jah,
    spoiler:
    on expert, you can't open the window from outside. Look for another entry.


    spoiler:
    Either climb a ladder to the west and jump across ledges to find a small grate-covered window, or kill the guards at the front and pick the lock.

  19. #144
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Melan View Post
    Jah,
    spoiler:
    on expert, you can't open the window from outside. Look for another entry.
    spoiler:
    The window? The only frobbable thing on the balcony was a door. I'm playing on hard, btw. But thanks, I'll take a look at that ladder.

  20. #145
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2000
    Location: Land of enchantment
    I am just part way through this, playing in ghost mode, and I had to stop and compliment you, Melan. This is one of the best route finding and climbing missions I have ever played. Superb in that regard. Also great atmosphere and architecture. My only quibble with it so far is that I think the story is a little thin. But right now, all the motivation I need is pure exploration. I really like the way your make the player work for it (play actually) to find almost every bit of loot. Excellent, especially for a first effort.

    I have a couple of questions.

    1) I found (SPOILER) this place on the way to a large loot stash with a weird note. This is a great climbing puzzle. I have a question about this location.
    spoiler:
    Below at ground level I found a door with crossed keys and haunt noises behind it. Can that be entered? From this side or by another route?


    2) Also, I found a (SPOILER) locked metal door with a lot of loot behind it but no key.
    spoiler:
    I was able to enter by exploring a powder barrel in front of the door.
    Is there a less destructive way in?

    EDIT: I figured out the answer to the second question.
    spoiler:
    That is the door to the landlord's room. Getting the landlord's key in ghost mode was a bit of a problem. I'll explain how I did it later.
    Last edited by smithpd; 19th Jan 2008 at 04:40.

  21. #146
    Classical Master 2008
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Location: Civitas Quinque Ecclesiae HU
    smithpd, thanks for the praise. The first location cannot be entered (in this mission anyway). As for ghosting, except for one piece of loot (where it is debatable whether you are actually breaking ghosting), the entire mission can be finished that way... although not always easily (there are multiple approaches for the Coronet and the Landlord's key).

    I am currently working on a mission which is similarly exploration-oriented, but with more climbing. Not that much story, though.

  22. #147
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2000
    Location: Land of enchantment
    Quote Originally Posted by Melan View Post
    ...there are multiple approaches for the Coronet and the Landlord's key).
    Yes there are. Only the back entrance worked for me, and that was a challenge, perhaps because of an erratic patrol but also because the route I took was far from obvious. I am not complaining about a challenge. On the contrary. Missions that are designed for ghosting sometimes tend to be insipid, but yours clearly isn't. I'll explain in a written ghost report, after I finish.

    I am looking forward to your next mission. I can forgive the story. If you want help with it, enlist my support as a tester. Keep 'em coming.

  23. #148
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2000
    Location: Land of enchantment
    This evening I completed the mission successfully in ghost mode. I missed quite a bit of loot, though. I am going back again on a BJ run to see if I can find more.

    SPOILER ALERT: Here is my ghost report at the Eidos thief forum. Note that we do not use spoiler covers in these reports. They are intended to be read without restriction by people who (I hope) are interested in the details. If any of you ghosters would care to add to our ghost reports, please feel free to join us. But kindly read the official ghost rules first, which makes it more likely that we are playing on a level field.

    I found the ghosting game play to be quite good. It was challenging but standard except for one area, the landlord's key. The main problem for me was finding a good route to position myself. Another difficulty I had was finding the exit. As reported by many here, I think that was too obscure, unless I missed something obvious. If so, please let me know.

    Thanks again, Melan, for a fun mission.

  24. #149
    Member
    Registered: May 2003
    Location: West Seattle
    wow, Melan, I am impressed! I spent about 3 hours in-game exploring, and another 1 or 2 just getting lost and starting over

    there was so much creative architecture, I ended up walking around the streets looking up and trying to find more places to get to! I was frustrated for a while, when I kept pursuing difficult paths for no reward, but soon I realized that it was probably closer to reality than many other mission - cities aren't designed with a prize down every alley

    I found at least two locked doors that I couldn't open - one between the start point and the landlord's place, and the other southeast of the coal chute (right next to the high-up fire arrows). speaking of high-up fire arrows, I thought I could see something on the roof of the building opposite the alley. any way over there?

  25. #150
    Classical Master 2008
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Location: Civitas Quinque Ecclesiae HU
    Quote Originally Posted by MrMunkeepants View Post
    I found at least two locked doors that I couldn't open - one between the start point and the landlord's place, and the other southeast of the coal chute (right next to the high-up fire arrows).
    spoiler:
    They lead to the same place, which is an underpass with no loot or special significance (except for using it as a convenient shortcut if you are ghosting). You need the Public Works Key to open it.

    speaking of high-up fire arrows, I thought I could see something on the roof of the building opposite the alley. any way over there?
    spoiler:
    Can't get up there as far as I know, but then this is Thief, where taffers can get anywhere.

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