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Thread: T2 FM, "Bad Debts" (17/12/2007) (UPDATED 17/01/2016)

  1. #151
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2000
    Location: Land of enchantment
    Someone mentioned blowing up the door to a storage room in the userer's house to find some loot. Well, I can't find it. I take it that the userer's house is the one made of yellow stone with lots of guards and a guy at a desk with a sword in his back. Right? The only unlocked door I can find to blow up in that place is below the ground floor entry level behind the white statue, under the stairwell. I find a brick wall behind it. Where exactly is the storage room? Could he be referring to the pawn shop (Marcus Antiquities)? What am I missing? Perhaps I opened it myself with a key....

  2. #152
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Malmö, Sweden
    Quote Originally Posted by smithpd View Post
    Where exactly is the storage room? Could he be referring to the pawn shop (Marcus Antiquities)? What am I missing? Perhaps I opened it myself with a key....
    I feel guilty of this description. Yeah, that could certainly have been a pawn shop. I didnīt see the name Marcus Antiquities and I did not find a key to the room either. I have been told there is one, so your suspicion is correct.

  3. #153
    Classical Master 2008
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Location: Civitas Quinque Ecclesiae HU
    smithpd -- the key to the room is upstairs, under the table.

  4. #154
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2007

    stuck

    just finished 7 sisters got through it quite easy, but need help on bad debts i have 4 keys thieves,hightown,publc works,short lane what do i do next i am just wandering around in circles cant get anywhere so could someone please help

  5. #155
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2007

    something i forgot

    by the way i am playing on normal

  6. #156
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2000
    Location: Land of enchantment
    Quote Originally Posted by doug View Post
    just finished 7 sisters got through it quite easy, but need help on bad debts i have 4 keys thieves,hightown,publc works,short lane what do i do next i am just wandering around in circles cant get anywhere so could someone please help
    Bad Debts has some of the trickiest and most devilish route finding puzzles ever. In general, you need to look up and test every possibility for climbing and jumping. A lot of climbs and jumps that you need to make might seem unlikely or impossible at first, but they succeed. Sometimes necessary buildings have to be entered in a roundabout way.

    As for keys, I guess I have them all. Here is a complete list of my key inventory:
    spoiler:
    Public Works (2), Armorer's (2), Thieves', Pawnshop, Userer's (2), Pub, Timm's, Landlord's, and Hightown. Landlord's is tricky and available only after completing some objectives. Hightown is extremely hard to find and not necessary.

    If you want specific suggestions, you should first explain generally where you have been, what houses you have been in, and what objectives you have accomplished. There is no point in giving a complete list of tricky places.

  7. #157
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2000
    Location: Land of enchantment

    Loot hunt stalled

    Melan,

    I had that pawnshop key all along. My question was about a "storage room" door that might need to be exploded. It turned out to be the pawnshop, which I had already found.

    I would like a little help with some loot.

    As I said before, I enjoyed this mission so much that I decided to go back and BJ or kill all the AI so I could hunt for loot. I made substantial progress over the last week without any help, extending my game time (loot) from 7:35:59 (3012) in ghost mode to 14:39:36 (3507) with all AI down. 30 BJs, 14 kills. That is more game time than any other mission I can recall. I found a few places that I had not seen before, including the naughty books (an impossible looking jump) and the fish. Finally, after the above, I have run out of ideas, so I have had to resort to the loot list. Last night I used the list for double checking, but it has not helped me to find anything new, so far. I am missing 175. I saw two items on the loot list worth 175 that I cannot find or verify because I am not sure how to find the locations:
    spoiler:
    The Coronet
    -In tower on the main wall: diamond ring (100)
    I don't know how to find this tower or enter it.
    spoiler:
    Armorer
    -3rd floor on beams: silver+gold nugget (75)
    I find beams are against the ceiling unless you mean the outside beams. The outside beams supporting the roof over the window seem to be empty, but I am not sure. I cannot get my head past the light fixture.
    Kindly give me detailed directions to and description of these places. It is possible that I have already found them. Then I will have to do more double checking.

  8. #158
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2000
    Location: Land of enchantment
    I just woke up and realized that Doug has a short lane key playing on Normal. Is that available on Expert?

  9. #159
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Malmö, Sweden
    Quote Originally Posted by smithpd View Post
    I just woke up and realized that Doug has a short lane key playing on Normal. Is that available on Expert?
    No, itīs not.



    As for your possible lost loot locations:

    spoiler:

    Armorer:
    Itīs not a beam in the 3rd floor room (the one where the incriminating book is), the beam with the nuggets is in the stairwell just next to this room. The stairwell has a snowflake-shaped (*) beam structure just below the fancy window on top.

    Coronet:
    This is a bit tricky: get through the basement and up to the top floor (you know the place where you get through 2 holes in wooden floors using rope arrows). Get out the window facing west, take a running jump and mantle up to the next building. Take a step forward so you drop off the little "lump" you mantled up on. Turn right (N), move a few steps until you reach the next wall, then turn right again. You are now facing east and you should see a wide ledge in front (~3m) and slighty below (~1m) you. (The ledge goes in the N-S direction and one end is at the tower youīve just been in).
    You canīt jump to the ledge because there is a roof above your head but the height allows us to boldly run off where we are and mantle up on to the ledge. Itīs actually an easy move, but itīs scary! Now turn left (N) and mantle up onto the next building, turn immediately left again and you will find an opening into a little room in a tower ahead of you. There is a skeleton and some junk here, including a ring on the floor. I recommend you save before grabbing the ring.



    BTW, I like your perseverance when it comes to loot hunting. I am currently trying to find more loot in Unknown Treasure.
    Last edited by jiansonz; 27th Oct 2008 at 11:50.

  10. #160
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2000
    Location: Land of enchantment
    Thanks jiansonz! Your two hints did it. So now I have 100% loot in a little under 15 hours game time.

    As for the ring, I had been up to the first rampart a few times, but I could not visualize the run jump to the second. I had to puzzle a long time trying to avoid damage. Eventually I got the ring losing one health shield, but when I got my final stats in the end it said zero damage. That's interesting.

    As for the nuggets, I had never looked up in that place. Pretty embarrassing. This mission punishes you for not trying everything. So many places I went seemed impossible at first and then gratifying when I found them.

    Thanks again for a fun mission, Melan! It kept me entertained for nine days. I can hardly wait for your next one.
    Last edited by smithpd; 28th Jan 2008 at 22:31.

  11. #161
    Classical Master 2008
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Location: Civitas Quinque Ecclesiae HU
    Yeah, the ring got the betatesters as well. Many of these exploration puzzles came about while I was building the terrain and asked questions along the lines of "wouldn't it be fun if I could get up there?" Thief is a perfect vehicle for them, since it gives you more freedom of movement than other FPS games, and rewards a less hasty approach to mission exploration.

    If you liked the climbing/exploration of Bad Debts, my next mission, tentatively titled 'Disorientation', has that squared. The only thing I'm afraid of is brush limits; I tried to counteract this by more intensive building (that is, more gameplay possibilities in the same space), but it is still to be seen how far I can push Dromed before things turn ugly. The trouble with allowing players to get up on high vantage point is that you then have to build higher architecture around the edges to avoid those ugly "hall of mirrors" effects, and that's not good for the brush count. Still, I'm starting to fall in love with the new opportunities. There is more water, for starters.

  12. #162
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2007
    Location: USA
    I just finished this excellent mission! Very tough player movement puzzles, but satisfying and fun.

  13. #163
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2000
    Location: Lost in the sewers, CA
    Is there a way to get into the "abandoned" area? I'm playing on hard.

    Also, which guard has the key to the landlord? I've knocked them all out and haven't found a key.
    Last edited by Verak; 31st Jan 2008 at 13:16.

  14. #164
    Classical Master 2008
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Location: Civitas Quinque Ecclesiae HU
    #1 If you mean the one marked on the map to the Southeast, no. If you mean the other one, search the power station area

    #2 It is carried by your landlord himself, who should be pacing up and down in the Coronet

  15. #165
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2005
    Hi
    I am being an idiot.
    I can not find the first objective!. I have a book. Got over 1600 loot so far and found a ring high up
    I went in Userer's balcony and found the loot behind the pic
    I could open the other door is there a way in the rest there?
    Also the Antique shop key I could not find.
    In a area with windows keys on them is there a way up?
    Oh dear..
    Also *spoiler* shot here
    Is there a way in a open window It is right opposite the
    House with the W, like a tower I can rope there but seems now way in?

    Edit: I can not put spoilers on the thumbnail
    Last edited by Nightwalker; 1st Feb 2008 at 10:53.

  16. #166
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2000
    Location: Land of enchantment
    You have asked several questions and some of them are not clear to me. The screen shot did not display. If you want to avoid a spoiling thumbnail, simply use a link to the screen shot (URL tag) in which the image is the target of the URL.

    I am pretty sure that the first letter objective is in the userer's house, in plain sight on a table. Did you find the guy with the sword in his back slumped over a desk? I think it is near there. I could be wrong. Maybe someone else can confirm about the first letter location. BTW, there is one door low down behind the entry hall in the userer's house that can be frobbed but cannot be opened without explosives. There is nothing behind it.

    You mention a place you found with keys on windows. Your description is not sufficient for me to understand where you mean. If you go down to the bottom of that place, do you find a front door that seems to be a ruined church where you can hear haunt noises behind it? If that is the place I describe, there is a way up by doing some jumping to get up part way and then using rope arrows. Maybe there are two such key windows and I don't know where you are. Anyway, this is an isolated place and no objectives are associated with it.

    The key for the antique shop is called the pawnshop key. If you search this thread for pawnshop, you may get the answer. I don't remember where it is.
    Last edited by smithpd; 1st Feb 2008 at 13:25.

  17. #167
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2005
    I think I have mixed up and confused the way I worded it up.
    Thanks about the link for the screen shot and help

    I can not find a way in The Usurer's house
    Which I assume is The heavy guarded place near the water red/yellowish brick

    I am missing something obvious and simple I think. I got in the balcony area only.
    I also think I know where the pawn shop is.

    Found a ring another area High up near the coronet on the ramparts with a skeleton and gas arrow

    I also found what I think is Keywell area abandoned area where you jump three mines (I disarmed) I found one area of loot one end

    Thanks

  18. #168
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2000
    Location: Land of enchantment
    Quote Originally Posted by Gillie View Post
    I can not find a way in The Usurer's house
    Which I assume is The heavy guarded place near the water red/yellowish brick
    Oh, now I understand.

    The way into the userer's house is:
    spoiler:

    I think you have correctly identified the userer's building, heavily guarded front entrance, made of yellowish brown stone. If you can go down the street from the main entrance, you will find the courtyard with a large statue that faces the front door of the mechanist seminary. It is at the back end of the userer's building. The guards may prevent you from going down the street. If so, you need to take a long way around, as I always did, to get to the same place. The map may help. Anyway, once you find that courtyard, you need to look up and see a small semi-circular balcony up high. You can rope up to it and enter that way.

  19. #169
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2005
    Quote Originally Posted by smithpd View Post
    Oh, now I understand.

    The way into the userer's house is:
    spoiler:

    I think you have correctly identified the userer's building, heavily guarded front entrance, made of yellowish brown stone. If you can go down the street from the main entrance, you will find the courtyard with a large statue that faces the front door of the mechanist seminary. It is at the back end of the userer's building. The guards may prevent you from going down the street. If so, you need to take a long way around, as I always did, to get to the same place. The map may help. Anyway, once you find that courtyard, you need to look up and see a small semi-circular balcony up high. You can rope up to it and enter that way.
    Thanks a lot
    Yes that is where I thought. Been there more than once.
    I can get no further than those rooms. I must be missing a key>

  20. #170
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2000
    Location: Land of enchantment
    Not sure what you mean by "those rooms". Can you find the guy slumped over his desk with a sword in his back? Isn't the note you need on the desk or a nearby table?

  21. #171
    Moderator
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: Wales
    Well if that's all you're missing Gillie.

    I am most certainly missing a brain. I've come back to this after 10 days and feel completely lost about what I'm doing. I'd like to avoid starting again if I can and I'm desperate for my relaxation fix. My current main objectives are to find something re: Tomlinson and get a key from the landlord.. But I'm confused about where I am, where I should be going and what I should be looking for. I've reloaded at a a place I think is above the beams at the usurer's shop and gone out on a ledge but I don't remember what for. I know I've missed a load of stuff by not thinking mega jumps and climbs etc.

    If anyone can make sense out of this I'd dearly love some hints. Starting over wouldn't be a problem but I'd prefer to get reorientated if I can. I think I'm just probably being somewhat thick here.

  22. #172
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2005
    Quote Originally Posted by smithpd View Post
    Not sure what you mean by "those rooms". Can you find the guy slumped over his desk with a sword in his back? Isn't the note you need on the desk or a nearby table?
    I know I tried those doors before. I went in again.
    now the door unpicked? also strange sounds Found what I needed. That is odd!.
    @nickie I have not got too far as yet. Still looking for the firs objective.
    The usurer's place Is where I could not get into.
    It where smithpd says it is under the spoiler
    Last edited by Gillie; 1st Feb 2008 at 19:46. Reason: found it!

  23. #173
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2000
    Location: Land of enchantment
    @nickie:

    Tomlinson's shop is not the Userer's house.
    Tomlinson is the Armorer. To get there, take the road left and behind you when you are facing the Thieves coal chute left of the W house. Climb the ladder that is on the left wall and get off on the metal bridge. Jump down onto gray stone ledge, go to end of ledge, climb onto rampart, climb down to steam vent, go one window past that, and open hatch to enter from top beams.

  24. #174
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2005
    That was a great mission after the glitches I got myself into.
    Love the different area's and textures. Great play.

    The abandoned keywell area was atmospheric.I Disarmed those mines as well.
    Kind of how TDS could have become and kind of scary.
    Does the
    Seeing area with statues and glyph's have a significance?.

    I put the wrong book in the chute I had a confusion over that as I saved phew and thought it was incriminating notes. Are they for any other use
    I played on hard 55 short of 3362.

    There is one thing. I found an area.
    Near the Coronet up high. Over a wall a strange Green/white machine?? It said "kneel". Is that for anything or on Expert anyone?

  25. #175
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: Intarnet
    Quote Originally Posted by Gillie View Post
    There is one thing. I found an area.
    Near the Coronet up high. Over a wall a strange Green/white machine?? It said "kneel". Is that for anything or on Expert anyone?
    That sounds like you found the Dopefish.

    It hadn't popped up it's head for a while until now...


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