TTLG|Thief|Bioshock|System Shock|Deus Ex|Mobile
Page 3 of 18 FirstFirst 1234567813 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 75 of 445

Thread: The Thief Enhancement Pack

  1. #51
    The Architect
    Registered: Dec 1998
    Location: Lyon
    The EP has been in the works since 2005, Kin. You may find yourself waiting an awfully long time for a patch that improves all of the objects AND all of the wall textures.

  2. #52
    Keeper of FMs
    Registered: Oct 2004
    Location: Meraux, LA
    Quote Originally Posted by Nameless Voice View Post
    I have updated the archives on the Filefront and Rapidshare mirrors with this new installer. The Thief-TheCircle and SouthQuarter mirrors will have to wait until someone from those websites reads this.
    The Circle now has the updated version.

    Thanks for that!
    The last screenshot on that page is both the After version, though.
    And, despite TTLG's server time being about five minutes slow, it was posted after midnight, why the '31st of December' timestamp?
    OOPS! Fixed that & added a couple more. I see the correct timestamp in the header. If you mean my entered date, I added 'Released' before it for clarity and an updated blurb with info on the corrected patch.

    Everything looks so good. Thanks Nameless Voice for releasing this! And thanks to everyone who worked on this project.

  3. #53
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    I was referring to the fact that I released it about two minutes after midnight, my time, so the release date should be the 1st of January, 2008. A new year, and a new look for Thief!

  4. #54
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2005
    Location: in here
    Ok i will install it. Is there any posibility to create any problems with futute fan missions?

  5. #55
    Desperately Dodgy Moderator
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Bohn Museum
    Quote Originally Posted by Kin View Post
    I imagine something like high detailed wall textures along with the high poly-res objects.
    As NV said before, that is a monumental undertaking (not saying this wasn't). It not only requires creation of the textures, but the editing of every single mission and redistribution of said missions... which is probably illegal. So, don't hold your breath and just download this update now.

  6. #56
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    Quote Originally Posted by Kin View Post
    Ok i will install it. Is there any posibility to create any problems with futute fan missions?
    That will be the concern of the authors of those future fan missions.

    There is one significant issue with the EP. It won't work quite right with greyscale missions. Dependong on how the greyscale is implemented, a few objects here and there will have colour.
    This could be solved with a greyscale version of the EP. I might be persuadable to make one if there's enough interest.
    Last edited by Nameless Voice; 1st Jan 2008 at 13:24.

  7. #57
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Thief fan since ca. 1999
    Ok, so I'm having some problems with this pack. For one thing, I want to clarify something. I opened up EP.crf with 7-zip, and I noticed there is a specific portion for thief1 only. Does this mean that for thief gold that I only get to use what's in the thief1 folder in the crf file? It seems to be counter to that though, because most of the objects are not under the "thief1" folder and they seem to be working in thief gold. (except for the sword, which I can't figure out)

    Ok, but here's the problem I don't understand (shot from T2, but this happens in TG as well):


    Notice in the picture that it is a door with some wood pieces crossed over the main part of the wood (hard for me to describe) - well, I checked in the EP.crf for DOOR12 and DOOR13, and they look different than what is pictured above. They are darker, worn textures, without the cross pieces. Now, either I'm getting basic doors confused, or somehow the ep is using the wrong textures for the doors - I thought one would want to use the darker ones that were pictured somewhere in the "improving low-poly objects" thread. I hope I'm making sense, hard to explain it.

    Also, some other "problems" with the pack... Just some nitpicky stuff, sorry I can't help it. (Don't hurt me!) I just thought I'd inform you NV, you may choose to ignore it but I want you to know:

    I noticed on the new rusty metal door (testing thief 2 running interference) that one of the door knobs is not properly placed on the door object. Its like floating in mid air, instead of actually touching the object, like the other side of the door knob is. Just noticed it when opening and closing the door, that something was off about it. Also, I looked at Garrett's hand while blocking with a weapon, and his thumb has a noticable seam in it. :O
    [edit]Or is that the fault of the original arm mesh for Thief 2? I just realized that may be the case, sorry.
    Last edited by sNeaksieGarrett; 1st Jan 2008 at 13:31.

  8. #58
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    Quote Originally Posted by sNeaksieGarrett View Post
    For one thing, I want to clarify something. I opened up EP.crf with 7-zip, and I noticed there is a specific portion for thief1 only. Does this mean that for thief gold that I only get to use what's in the thief1 folder in the crf file?
    Those are Thief 1 override files. The torches and arm models for Thief 1 are different, so they have Thief 1 versions which are loaded in place of the (T2) versions in the main part of the archive.

    Quote Originally Posted by sNeaksieGarrett View Post
    Now, either I'm getting basic doors confused, or somehow the ep is using the wrong textures for the doors - I thought one would want to use the darker ones that were pictured somewhere in the "improving low-poly objects" thread. I hope I'm making sense, hard to explain it.
    That looks like the doors are using the original textures. It could be in Thief 1 by not having ObjTextures16, but Thief 2 has that by default, and in any case the rust textures are appearing properly upgraded.
    The only thing I can think of is that you have that texture extracted to your \Obj\txt\ folder and it is overriding the EP.

  9. #59
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Thief fan since ca. 1999
    Quote Originally Posted by Nameless Voice
    Those are Thief 1 override files. The torches and arm models for Thief 1 are different, so they have Thief 1 versions which are loaded in place of the (T2) versions in the main part of the archive.
    Ohhhhh okay, thanks. That makes sense.


    No no, that's not what I meant. Sorry, see I told you it is hard to explain. I was trying to say that maybe i'm getting the type of doors confused, but what is happening is that the EP has new door textures with cross pieces, but the one inside the EP.crf (door12 door 13) is the darker texture shown in the thread i mentioend in the previous post.

  10. #60
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    The crosspieces are a part of the model, not the texture. They seem to have the old, original Door12 texture applied to them in your screenshots, though.

  11. #61
    d. 30.4.16 Always remembered
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: in our hearts
    NV, the only complain now is that if anyone in the past has changed the texture of a door without including the original model in the package, it will result in a horrible texture mismatch. Fortunately I realized it before releasing the campaign.

  12. #62
    Keeper of FMs
    Registered: Oct 2004
    Location: Meraux, LA
    Quote Originally Posted by Nameless Voice View Post
    I was referring to the fact that I released it about two minutes after midnight, my time, so the release date should be the 1st of January, 2008. A new year, and a new look for Thief!
    OK. Fixed that and added the new look! It makes more sense that way. I guess I really shouldn't be posting stuff at 3 in the morning buzzing on peanut butter fudge.

  13. #63
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Thief fan since ca. 1999
    Oh, that explains that. However, I still don't get why it's using a different door texture than the

    I'm an idiot... I know what it is. I've got the door12.gif and door13.gif from schwaa's thief 2 object demo or whatever (the one with the beetles and the houses, etc)

    [edit] Yeah that was it. Gosh I'm a dummy. Although, I was quite fooled by the crosspieces, now it all makes sense :laugh: The door looks properly textured now, and it looks awesome of course =)
    Last edited by sNeaksieGarrett; 1st Jan 2008 at 14:12.

  14. #64
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Rowena View Post
    NV, the only complain now is that if anyone in the past has changed the texture of a door without including the original model in the package, it will result in a horrible texture mismatch. Fortunately I realized it before releasing the campaign.
    Well, it's only for that one door that it's really noticeable, but I see your point. Maybe I should just give up on the upgraded door models completely and revert back to the simple square boxes...

    Veering a bit off-topic, that door in The Seven Sisters that replaced the door01 could have done with a new model with 3D crossbeams instead of just having them painted on
    Last edited by Nameless Voice; 1st Jan 2008 at 14:58. Reason: Added quote

  15. #65
    Member
    Registered: Feb 1999
    Location: Yes
    This is really quite good! I have been looking for something like this for quite a long time and somehow have managed to miss this development every visit for 3 years, plus not found it when searching specifically for something like it.

    I do hope development continues. Thanks for the efforts so far.

    To further other comments about the complexity of this. (I might show my ignorance), but I assumed that if you build a map with a certain wall texture, then don't you simply go into Dromed and choose that wall texture? Meaning wouldn't replacing all the textures in the game simply mean replacing the original textures with the newer high res ones? My assumption is that the game would call on the new textures when it loaded the map and no modifying of the game maps would be necessary at all (since when it calls for Brick16, that texture is now the new and improved one, you can leave the map alone and just edit the source files it calls on). Please correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems someone responded that every map would have to be edited for this to work and that doesn't seem right.

    Thanks again for the release of your great work. Thief is one of the few games that never seems to get old for me. Congrats on making it look better!

  16. #66
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Thief fan since ca. 1999
    Quote Originally Posted by NV
    Well, it's only for that one door that it's really noticeable, but I see your point. Maybe I should just give up on the upgraded door models completely and revert back to the simple square boxes...
    Its hard to tell the way you worded it, but it sounds to me almost like you are saying "well I might as well have not done anything to the doors because you are an ungrateful asshole". Or, it could also be you were being brutally honest and actually were questioning your updated models: "eh, the new door models aren't that perfect..." Either way, I'd like to clarify: Im;' sorry if it offended you. I was just letting you know, don't want to piss you off. Just something noticeable if you really take a look at the rusty door. you don;t have to even fix it, I was just stating a matter of observation. And I'm not an ungrateful asshole if that was your thinking, I think the door is fantastic, just has a minor flaw is all.

  17. #67
    Desperately Dodgy Moderator
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Bohn Museum
    Quote Originally Posted by Huckeye View Post
    To further other comments about the complexity of this. (I might show my ignorance), but I assumed that if you build a map with a certain wall texture, then don't you simply go into Dromed and choose that wall texture? Meaning wouldn't replacing all the textures in the game simply mean replacing the original textures with the newer high res ones? My assumption is that the game would call on the new textures when it loaded the map and no modifying of the game maps would be necessary at all (since when it calls for Brick16, that texture is now the new and improved one, you can leave the map alone and just edit the source files it calls on). Please correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems someone responded that every map would have to be edited for this to work and that doesn't seem right.
    The problem isn't getting the engine to use the new texture; it's the change in size. Many of the original wall and floor textures are 32x32, 64x64 or 128x128. There's only so much improvement you can make with such tiny textures. The engine luckily supports 256x256, which is the size used by the vast majority of new custom textures that authors create these days.

    So when you drop in a 256x256 replacement for a 64x64 original texture, there are major scaling and alignment issues; the new texture in that example will appear 4x the size of the original in both dimensions. This is especially noticeable if, for example, the texture has windows or other such details; those details will no longer be in the right place. Applying these textures requires opening the mission and changing the actual scale and/or UV alignment in the terrain itself.

    That being said, I've been able to develop drop-in replacements for certain textures by maintaining the original sizes or, when they're too small, by carefully designing the replacement to the original's scale (to avoid gigantic bricks, for example). But that is time consuming and there are many, many textures which would have to be done for a full replacement. Plus, there is a certain amount of personal taste involved and what I think looks like a great replacement might look crappy to someone else. Also, many of those replacements were only similar in spirit to the original and not as faithful as most objects in the EP are.


    Edit: R Soul was much more pithy.
    Last edited by Yandros; 1st Jan 2008 at 14:47.

  18. #68
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: Constantly losing tug o'war
    Quote Originally Posted by Huckeye View Post
    To further other comments about the complexity of this. (I might show my ignorance), but I assumed that if you build a map with a certain wall texture, then don't you simply go into Dromed and choose that wall texture?
    That's pretty much correct, but it wouldn't allow the resolution (pixels per area) to be increased. For example, 128x128 pixels = 8x8 feet (by default). Doubling the texture size would merely make it occupy 16x16 feet.

    Object textures are different. The texture can be stretched/squashed to fit into a given space, so increasing the texture size means more pixels will then be inside that area.

  19. #69
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    Quote Originally Posted by sNeaksieGarrett View Post
    Or, it could also be you were being brutally honest and actually were questioning your updated models: "eh, the new door models aren't that perfect..."
    That's exactly what I'm saying; that the improvement in the new door models may not be worth the troubles they cause. I had been considering just dropping them from the package, but then it was time to release and I decided to just leave them alone.

    Also, that paragraph you quoted was in direct response to Lady Rowena, I just forgot to quote her.

  20. #70
    Member
    Registered: Feb 1999
    Location: Yes
    Quote Originally Posted by R Soul View Post
    That's pretty much correct, but it wouldn't allow the resolution (pixels per area) to be increased. For example, 128x128 pixels = 8x8 feet (by default). Doubling the texture size would merely make it occupy 16x16 feet.

    Object textures are different. The texture can be stretched/squashed to fit into a given space, so increasing the texture size means more pixels will then be inside that area.

    Oh. I thought the stretching, and manipulation was also done in the map. So if someone put a Bafford painting in a map and stretched its size and worked on its position to perfection, then someone else came along and made a high res Bafford painting, it wouldn't just look better with all the same coordinates and adjustments? I'm not arguing, I am just clarifying so that I understand a little better. Thanks for the response. The statements that it IS definitely more difficult would explain why this hasn't been accomplished yet.

    Sorry, just saw Yandros' post. That makes more sense (I'm a little slow so things have to sink in for a while before the light bulb goes on)

    As far as artistic tastes... I love the way John P. (I think that's his name) does his texture packs and lets users choose which parts to apply. If someone were tinkering with the thought of working on said textures, i would certainly encourage it. You could release in stages to let people choose to have objects, floors, walls, etc. or all of the above. Or people could just not use it if they don't agree with your choices. I've been longing for a texture overhaul for a long time, so I encourage anyone with the ability to consider such an undertaking.

    thanks.
    Last edited by Huckeye; 1st Jan 2008 at 15:19.

  21. #71
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    No, because a painting is an object, not world texture.

    Look at it like this, the Dark Engine references world textures from their top-right corner, and with a scale factor.

    If you have a window texture that is 64x128, and you upgrade it to 128x256, then the window will 'grow', anchored from the top-left corner, so that the upper-left 64x128 of the new image will occupy the same space as the entire 64x128 texture did, and the remainder of the texture will 'spill over' into the surrounding space. So, if the original texture took up 2x4 units, the new texture would take up 4x8 units at the same scale factor. Its scale factor would need to be reduced to make it occupy the same space as the lower resolution texture.

  22. #72
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Thief fan since ca. 1999
    Quote Originally Posted by Nameless Voice
    Also, that paragraph you quoted was in direct response to Lady Rowena, I just forgot to quote her.
    I see that now. heh, heh, oops.

    Quote Originally Posted by NV
    That's exactly what I'm saying; that the improvement in the new door models may not be worth the troubles they cause. I had been considering just dropping them from the package, but then it was time to release and I decided to just leave them alone.
    oh. Well, like I said, I still think the door is good. Which doors did you do btw? I think the DOOR12 and DOOR13 are really awesome, I know you did the door12 cuz I saw the texture posted in that one thread.

  23. #73
    Keeper of FMs
    Registered: Oct 2004
    Location: Meraux, LA
    Quote Originally Posted by Nameless Voice View Post
    Look at it like this, the Dark Engine references world textures from their top-right corner, and with a scale factor.

    If you have a window texture that is 64x128, and you upgrade it to 128x256, then the window will 'grow', anchored from the top-left corner, so that the upper-left 64x128 of the new image will occupy the same space as the entire 64x128 texture did, and the remainder of the texture will 'spill over' into the surrounding space. So, if the original texture took up 2x4 units, the new texture would take up 4x8 units at the same scale factor. Its scale factor would need to be reduced to make it occupy the same space as the lower resolution texture.
    If I'm reading this correctly, it sounds like the Dark Engine works like the zoom on a photocopier. It enlarges from one point outward with no regard for the original size or resulting dimensions.

  24. #74
    The Architect
    Registered: Dec 1998
    Location: Lyon
    Quote Originally Posted by pavlovscat View Post
    If I'm reading this correctly, it sounds like the Dark Engine works like the zoom on a photocopier. It enlarges from one point outward with no regard for the original size or resulting dimensions.
    Sounds more like what dromed does TO PEOPLE'S LIVES.

  25. #75
    Uh-oh! Crashy crashy. TMA no longer loads. Any ideas?

    EDIT: I can revert things back to normal, but reinstalling results in a crash. FMs are likewise non-functional.
    Last edited by Printer's Devil; 1st Jan 2008 at 18:03.

Page 3 of 18 FirstFirst 1234567813 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •