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Thread: Anyone want to join me in making a Thief Universe-inspired Flash card game?

  1. #1
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2008

    Anyone want to join me in making a Thief Universe-inspired Flash card game?

    Dear friends,

    I've been lurking around here for a while and I always liked and enjoyed the unique setting used in the Thief series games. For a while my friends and I were developing a card game that was kind of based on the Magic:The Gathering CCG (some of you may recognize this popular collectible card game) but didn't have the collectible aspect to it - like, there was only one (but huge) deck of different fantasy-themed cards (creatures, spells, and whatnot), each player had 20 hit points, and he tried to use the creatures, spells, etc. to reduce his opponent's HP to zero, thus defeating him and winning the game. That's the basic premise. The card game came to be called "Gauntlet", for no apparent reason really.

    Due to my serious affection towards the Thief Universe I took some time figuring out how the Thief setting could be adapted for a card game like this, and at the same time an idea was born to make a computer game in Flash that would play such a card game with people.

    Currently, after some serious work that took me over half a year (which included learning Flash CS3 and getting used to the new ActionScript model), I ended up coding a completely working model of a card game like this, completely with a pretty decent AI, and support for different types of cards. Currently, this is what I have:

    - A working Flash CS3 card game engine that would play a Gauntlet-style card game against a player.
    - Working AI.
    - Support for graphical card artwork and sounds.
    - Support for different card types, with possibility of adding new cards relatively easily.

    Currently, however, I have a few problems with this project:

    - I really need someone who would think up some decent Thief-related cards for it. I mean, I have to come clean - it's been a while since I played Thief, and I mostly forgot the names of different creatures and the legends behind them, except for maybe some legendary names like Garrett (of course ), Constantine, Karras, etc. Currently the game has Thief-related cards (with names like "Ratman", "City Guard Initiate", etc., but I feel like they have wrong descriptions, or maybe are attributed in the wrong way - for instance, Ratman is currently identified as a Pagan creature, which I think is right, but I'm not 100% sure).
    - I really need someone who could submit artwork for cards there, if anyone is willing to do this. Of course, full credit will be given. A problem here is: current version of the game uses, for the sake of testing, some of the card artwork from a Microprose Shandalar game (MTG). This is, of course, copyrighted material and I'll have to replace it. In addition, the card graphics itself is non-existent - I simply don't have any Thief-related artwork that could be used as pictures of creatures, items, spells, etc.
    - I really need someone who could submit sounds for the game. Once again, currently the game uses Shandalar MTG sounds, which have nothing to do with the Thief universe (doesn't *sound* like Thief) and which are copyrighted material. Any proposals here are very welcome.
    - I'm not sure if the Thief font (or a similar looking font) is available anywhere in the TTF form - if it's available somewhere and if it's OK to use it, it'd be wonderful.

    If someone would like to join up with me in an effort to create a Thief Universe card game like this (I take all the coding to myself, and I generally need help with the setting information, with thinking up cards and their texts, and the artwork/sounds), I'd greatly appreciate your help. Of course, in that case I'll come up with a decent, detailed explanation of the rules of the card game, and will provide the compiled version on the current engine of the Flash card game itself to the people who would like to participate in the project, and will readily discuss the details with everyone who chooses to participate.

    The game, once it's ready, is to be released publicly and for free for everyone in the Thief community to enjoy.

    Please post your opinions and suggestions here. If you'd like to participate, please let me know how I can contact you and where I should send the game itself.
    Last edited by Gadget2006; 26th Jan 2008 at 01:41. Reason: Added some details

  2. #2
    1937-2018
    Gone, but not forgotten

    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: Seaside, Oregon

  3. #3
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2008
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlackman View Post
    Thanks for the info, I'll definitely check it out - looks awesome.

  4. #4
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2005
    Is there a 'mana' cost, like with MTG? Should probably be gold cost.

    Ooh! Idea! Garrett's card could have a special ability where he steal gold from the opponent, letting you get more cards out on the field!

  5. #5
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2003
    So, you have a working prototype? You know, this actually makes the whole thing sound plausible.

    I'm not sure if I can help you, though. I can't draw nor create sound FX. I used to play MTG as a kid, but not very much. However, if you need a tester, I'd gladly try to help.

    As for cards, I think public discussion here, on TTLG, would be best. As much as I would like to participate, there are many fans who are simply more competent. If you could outline the core game mechanic, and all types of cards currently supported, it would give us a clue as to what kind of material you need at this moment.

    One thing I'm somewhat worried about, is whether the making of an independent Flash game that refers to Thief is legal. The Dark Mod guys, for example, decided to avoid any direct references.

  6. #6
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    A good source of information is on this page:
    http://www.thief-thecircle.com/guides/

    In particular, the two "Lore" sections (e.g., the Thief Bestiary gives you info on the different creatures.)

  7. #7
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2008
    Quote Originally Posted by demagogue
    A good source of information is on this page:
    http://www.thief-thecircle.com/guides/
    Awesome! Yeah, it's been a while since I checked out the community - I completely missed these pages before. Sounds like a perfect beginning for creating Thief-themed pretty much anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peanuckle
    Is there a 'mana' cost, like with MTG? Should probably be gold cost.
    No, currently not. Generally speaking, Gauntlet mechanics is way different (and somewhat simple) from the core MTG mechanics. I'll try to come up with a document that would outline the core mechanics of Gauntlet gameplay.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zillameth
    One thing I'm somewhat worried about, is whether the making of an independent Flash game that refers to Thief is legal. The Dark Mod guys, for example, decided to avoid any direct references.
    Yeah, I'm also kinda worried about things like that. I would like to completely avoid, or at least reduce to the absolute minimum, the amount of material (references included) that could be considered copyrighted. That's what makes the whole thing harder, too, because even given that the creature names, factions, and whatnot can be changed so that there are no direct references, but so that the setting itself has a similar atmosphere, I'm going to need a whole set of custom-made graphics and audio content for it that would not be copyrighted by Looking Glass, Eidos, or any other company or person. That's the real problem by the way, and all I can do is code the program, not draw graphics or record sounds for it...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zillameth
    So, you have a working prototype? You know, this actually makes the whole thing sound plausible.
    If you could outline the core game mechanic, and all types of cards currently supported, it would give us a clue as to what kind of material you need at this moment.
    Yeah, I can try to outline the core mechanics. As I said, I'll try to come up with a document file explaining the core rules, but as for the basics, I can give it a try here as well - why not? Generally, the game is played by 2 players, but can also be played by 3,4,etc. players - generally makes sense to play 1vs1 or 1vs1vs1 though, everything else turned out to be just not as fun. Every player has 20 life, and the ultimate goal of the game is to reduce the opponent's life to 0 or less, in which case the last player having his life above zero is considered the winner of the game. The deck of cards consists of... well, a lot of different cards - our self-made printed deck of Gauntlet cards we made with friends just for ourselves consists of over 500 cards. In the beginning of the game, every player receives 7 cards from the deck, and then the players play these cards in turns. After every turn, every player takes as many cards from the deck as necessary so that there are exactly 7 cards in his hand again. If there are more than 7 cards in the player's hand, he discards as many cards at the end of turn as necessary so that there are exactly 7 cards in his hand again. The general types of cards used when playing are as follows:

    1) A creature - used to attack the opponent, and to block the opponent attacks. A creature is summoned to the battlefield without any mana cost or anything else (however, some prerequisites may be specified for each creature). You can only summon one creature unless a creature has the "Join-up" ability, which is similar to MTG banding, in which case it can join up in the attack with another creature. Each creature, similar to MTG, has two main properties: power (called "attack" in Gauntlet) and toughness (called "defense" in Gauntlet). Attack is how much damage the creature will deal to the player or to the creature blocking it. Defense is how much damage the creature can take before the rest of the damage goes on to the player himself. Say, you attack with a 5/3 creature (attack=5,defense=3). The opponent chooses to block with a creature that is 3/4. In this case, your attack is bigger that the opp's defense by 1, so you deal 1 direct damage to the opponent. The opponent's creature's attack is equal to your creature's defense (3), so the opponent doesn't deal any damage to you. If you're familiar with MTG, you can think of it in the way that all creatures have a MTG-style Trample ability. After every creature battle all the creatures that participated go to the graveyard (in Gauntlet we call it "goes away" in case it wasn't dealt lethal damage, and "dies" if it was dealt lethal damage).

    Some creatures may have a special activation cost specified at it - for instance, a creature may be a 3/5 if you don't pay any extra activation cost, but if you choose to pay two "Destroy" cards when you attack, then the creature becomes "5/5 Indestructible" (see below for an explanation of what "Indestructible" is).

    2) An effect - something you can enhance your creatures with during the attack or defense. Every creature can only have one effect unless it's specified that a creature can have more than one effect at the same time, or unless a special card is used that allows a creature to wear an extra effect. Effects can either be buffing up (like, "+1/+0" or "+0/+2", which buffs up the power or defense), can be something tricky, as in "+5/-5", can be just some special ability (such as "Ethereal Backfire", in which case all damage that is dealt to the creature above its defense goes to the owner of the attacking creature instead of going to the defender - say, you attack with "6/6" and your opponent blocks with "1/1" with an Ethereal Backfire effect; in this case you deal 5 damage to yourself (6-1 = 5 damage, backfired to you). Things like that. Effects can only be declared before the player blocks (if you're attacking) or immediately with the blocking creature (if you're blocking). Say, if you attacked with a creature with no effects, you can't add up an effect after the opponent blocked. You can also declare effects on your cards only, so you can't add any effects to your opponent's creatures.

    3) A fast-play effect, which is an effect that can be played at any time. Usually something tricky, like a trap or whatever. Each creature can have one fast-play effect in addition to one normal effect. The difference between effects and FP effects is that the fast-play ones can be played at any moment, even after the player declared a block, and you can play fast-play effects both on your creatures and on your opponent's creatures. It could be something like "-0/-2" (say, you attacked with 5/5, your opponent blocked it with 5/5 as well, but you played a fast-play effect -0/-2 on your opponent's creature, thus reducing its defense by 2, and dealt 2 damage to your opponent). FP effects can also add or remove special abilities from creatures - for instance, "Ethereal Travel" negates the backfire effect.

    4) A wall - a special card that cannot attack and that can be used only to block. Usually it has an attack of 0 and some defense (like, 0/1, 0/2, 0/3, 0/4....). Walls cannot have any effects or fast-play effects played on them.

    5) A spell - something you can play in your attack phase *instead of* (but not in addition to) attacking with a creature. Could be something damaging (say, "Fireball 1D4", which means a direct attack that deals random damage between 1 and 4 -- the opponent has an option to block it with a creature or a wall; after he blocked if he chose to, you roll a four-sided die to determine how much damage a fireball deals). Could be a healing spell (say, "Potion of Healing 1D3", which heals 1, 2, or 3 damage at random). Could also be something else - pretty much anything. An attacking spell can be blocked by a creature or wall. Any spell, attacking spells included, can be destroyed with a special card called "Destroy".

    6) "Destroy" - a special card that can counter any form of attack or spell unless the played card has an ability "Indestructible". Can come in quite handy - say, your opponent attacked with "7/7" and you can only block it with "2/2", thus receiving 5 damage. If you have a "Destroy" card, you can get rid of 7/7 without having to block it. In some custom rules invented by some of my friends, one "Destroy" card can be countered with two "Destroy" cards, and then those two "Destroy" cards can be countered with four "Destroy" cards.

    7) A permanent card - a card that goes into the permanent zone of a player and stays there (it doesn't go to the graveyard at the end of turn) until destroyed by the opponent or until it has to go away due to other reasons. For instance, there can be a permanent card that, when used in the main phase (which is usually shown by "tapping", or rotating, the card, similar to MTG), increases the attack and defense of the attacking creature by 1 (so, it acts as a +1/+1 effect without actually being an effect, plus it can be reused at every turn unless the opponent destroys it). However, this permanent card has a limitation - it can only be used on creatures with 6HD or less ("HD" stands for "hit dice", it's a term borrowed from the d20 PnP games, where it's often used to signify the level of a creature, and in Gauntlet it's calculated by adding up the creature's attack and defense - so, a 3/3 creature is 3+3=6HD). Some permanent cards allow players to get rid of a card in their hand that they don't need (in which case the permanent card is destroyed together with the discarded card from hand), etc. Stuff like that.

    8) A fort - a special type of a permanent card. There can be only one fort in play for each player, and a player can replace a fort with another one, but can never have two forts at the same time in his permanent zone. In order to destroy a fort, the opponent needs to use two "Destroy" cards simultaneously, which makes it quite hard to get rid of. Every fort can be used once per turn either to gain a level, or to cast a spell. Usually every fort has 9 levels specified in a rulebook - so, with every use, the fort can be used to cast a more powerful spell. If you choose to cast a spell from the fort, then the fort loses all levels (and has to start from level 0), but the spell is cast at the opponent, and this spell is not counterable (cannot be "Destroy"'ed).

    There may be other subtypes of cards, but the ones above are the most important.

    In my working prototype of a Gauntlet card game, the following types of cards are already supported: creatures, walls, spells, permanent cards. The following are being worked on at the moment: effects and FP effects.

    The above-outlined core model can be (and was, by my friends and me ) reused many times to create card games based on different settings. So generally, if someone could come up with good Thief-themed or at least Thief-style cards of the above-given card types, it would be awesome.
    Last edited by Gadget2006; 27th Jan 2008 at 01:19.

  8. #8
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2007
    First:
    Thank you for the effort, Gadget, and for wanting to bring more Thiefyness to the community. It's appreciated.

    After having read your writeup, I'd like to raise a few points. Some of them may seem overly critical. Please don't feel discouraged by them.

    So Gauntlet is a MTG variant, for all intents and purposes. Minus mana (and I guess casting cost), since all players use the same deck, so it's a lot more of a chance game than MTG. That's okay.

    In the OP you state that you have a "serious affection" towards the Thief Universe. And that you'd like Thief related cards.

    For me, and a lot of other gamers, we have gotten used to rather excellent artwork and flavor text in card games. I'm sure you'll get help asking around here, but what kind of quality are you asking for?

    I take it that not all 500+ cards in the deck will have unique art. How many cards do you think would need their own artwork?

    Could you possibly use screenshots from the games? Or better yet, from the level editors? Would you be content with black/white pencil sketches or crayon drawings?

    In short, I'm wondering how much work you'd estimate this to be.

    How well do you think the different concepts we know from the Thief Universe would lend themselves to your current game mechanics? Would you be willing to rethink some of the card names or functions if you found them to be less compatible with the setting? Would you expand on the setting in order to keep the mechanics?

    For instance, your example of the "Ethereal Backfire" card isn't really a part of the "canon" Thief Universe, AFAIK. I'm not saying it couldn't be, merely that I know of no occurence in the games of the concept. How far do you think you could push that introduction of new concepts - considering that each element added would risk detracting from the Thief feel of the game? That's something you'd need to consider. Flying carpets? Orcs?

    And there are the risks connected to using copyrighted material. But if you don't include central concepts to the Thief Universe as more than nods, such as the odd card featuring Garrett, Keepers, Hammers, the Trickster, is it really going to be what you wish it to be?

    I think, personally, that if I'd made this kind of thing for just myself and my friends I'd have used any source I felt worked best for artwork. Even copyrighted materials. Creative purposes. Private use. No challenge to ownership intended. Etcetera.

    OTOH, as I understand things, profiting from this program is right out. Between Wizards and Eidos, I fear you'd be minced. Even putting it on a site under a couple of Google ads would be risky IMO. But it's a very nice thing to share with friends. Without going into a copyright debate, I'd recommend looking into ways of covering your back. Perhaps an explanatory or disclaimer splash screen? An EULA? I don't know.

    In sum, I believe you would want to go with Thief-themed, rather than Thief-styled cards. However, it depends on what you wish to accomplish with it. If you'd like to market that in any way, you're doomed.

    Please consider these points and let us know what your thoughts are.

    --
    Larris

  9. #9
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2002
    Location: BFE
    Quote Originally Posted by Gadget2006 View Post


    Yeah, I'm also kinda worried about things like that. I would like to completely avoid, or at least reduce to the absolute minimum, the amount of material (references included) that could be considered copyrighted. That's what makes the whole thing harder, too, because even given that the creature names, factions, and whatnot can be changed so that there are no direct references, but so that the setting itself has a similar atmosphere, I'm going to need a whole set of custom-made graphics and audio content for it that would not be copyrighted by Looking Glass, Eidos, or any other company or person. That's the real problem by the way, and all I can do is code the program, not draw graphics or record sounds for it...
    Maybe try talking to New Horizon and Springheel over at The Dark Mod to see if they would cooperate with you. They've got a whole backstory and setting all written up on their wiki. There's also audio and concept art for it. I can't speak for them of course, but I really like what they are doing and think it's a great Thiefy alternate to avoid copyright infringement. It's a great setting for fan works.

  10. #10
    The banned user, not the game
    Registered: Dec 2007
    sounds amazing i love thief and i love those battle card type games

    i would only say this,make sets of card for example set one is from thief 1 set 2 from thief 2 set3 can be a thief gold expantion set

    also i gues there can b a set 4 for thief dark shadows,for smaller expantion packs you can do the races on thief like pagans,hammers,mechs/etc.

    i would love to see something come of your idea good luck,i would love to beta test it too
    User was banned by Digital Nightfall on 8-4-2008

  11. #11
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2008
    Quote Originally Posted by The Magpie View Post
    So Gauntlet is a MTG variant, for all intents and purposes. Minus mana (and I guess casting cost), since all players use the same deck, so it's a lot more of a chance game than MTG. That's okay.
    It was born as a variant of MTG - generally, I kinda laugh when I realise how this game was born. Initially it was born out of a failed attempt to teach some of my friends to play real Magic - they found the rules to be too convoluted, so we simplified them by taking out lands, mana, and stuff, and started with the basic concepts. Afterwards, we changed a lot of things, and yes, while you can definitely trace its definite MTG roots, it is mostly a different game besides maybe the five basic colors you can see, the 20 lives in the beginning, and the basic creature properties (power/toughness-like). It has moved away from MTG by creating new card types that are Gauntlet-specific, and by making completely new cards in settings that hardly resemble MTG. It is a more of a game of chance, yes, but the original deck is quite well balanced so, picking the right strategy and being careful in general, you can win more often than lose. A careless or non-strategic player will lose this game more often than a careful one that keeps to one of the core strategies we devised. So, it's kind of both of a game of chance and skill.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Magpie View Post
    For me, and a lot of other gamers, we have gotten used to rather excellent artwork and flavor text in card games. I'm sure you'll get help asking around here, but what kind of quality are you asking for?
    Of course we're not talking original MTG level of card quality or anything. Like, it's a community game - therefore, it'd be OK if it had "weaker" artwork, but the one that is to the point. So, I don't think I should set a strict requirement for the art (such as the "top-quality only" or anything). See below for some more ideas.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Magpie View Post
    I take it that not all 500+ cards in the deck will have unique art. How many cards do you think would need their own artwork?
    Yeah, for the sake of balance there's more than one of the same card in the deck - like, some cards are 2x, and some cards are 4x, and there are many (like 40 maybe, can't remember off the top of my head) Destroy cards. So, I guess there's a little over 100 unique cards in each Gauntlet set. Once again, there's no real full-blown Thief-based or Thief-like set just yet, so it's entirely up to us how many unique cards to make in this set, and therefore, how much artwork we're gonna need for them. At any rate, it's no more than 100 and a little odd anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Magpie View Post
    Could you possibly use screenshots from the games? Or better yet, from the level editors? Would you be content with black/white pencil sketches or crayon drawings?
    Yup, right on, that's OK by me. I guess colored content (such as screenshots from the game/level editors) may look better due to the fact that the card borders and stuff are colored, but in the long run that doesn't matter much.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Magpie View Post
    How well do you think the different concepts we know from the Thief Universe would lend themselves to your current game mechanics? Would you be willing to rethink some of the card names or functions if you found them to be less compatible with the setting? Would you expand on the setting in order to keep the mechanics? For instance, your example of the "Ethereal Backfire" card isn't really a part of the "canon" Thief Universe, AFAIK. I'm not saying it couldn't be, merely that I know of no occurence in the games of the concept. How far do you think you could push that introduction of new concepts - considering that each element added would risk detracting from the Thief feel of the game? That's something you'd need to consider. Flying carpets? Orcs?
    Yeah, I just gave you a sample from one of the Gauntlet sets which has nothing to do with Thief. Of course, I'd do my best to keep the feel of the Thief atmosphere - that takes precendence over game mechanics. After all, Gauntlet *is* kind of a community game - something that doesn't have prescribed, written rules. Like, everyone among my friends knows the core rules, but then again - many things change as we play and as we feel something is wrong or not balanced, or just doesn't fit. Therefore, we can bend the rules the way we want to keep it Thiefy and to keep it Gauntlet at the same time. At the very basic level, I'd say we can just rename the card here, keeping the concept (the action of the card, that is), simply because it's a fun card to use. Say, we could call it neutrally - like "Reflect Damage" - or we could provide some Thief setting name for it. Something like that. I'm open to all sorts of suggestions here. But it has do be as Thiefy as possible (at the level of Thiefness we choose in the end - that depends on whether we make it Thief-based or Thief-like, see below).

    Quote Originally Posted by The Magpie View Post
    And there are the risks connected to using copyrighted material. But if you don't include central concepts to the Thief Universe as more than nods, such as the odd card featuring Garrett, Keepers, Hammers, the Trickster, is it really going to be what you wish it to be?
    Quote Originally Posted by The Magpie View Post
    I think, personally, that if I'd made this kind of thing for just myself and my friends I'd have used any source I felt worked best for artwork. Even copyrighted materials. Creative purposes. Private use. No challenge to ownership intended. Etcetera.
    That's what I'm currently doing - it was, and still is, a project intended mostly for myself and my friends. I just thought I could share it with the global Thief community so that everyone can enjoy - there's no commercial interest in it or anything, just a wish to expand on the Thief universe and contribute to it, providing some extra variety and sharing what we've built up over the last few years. I'm not sure, however, how well and smooth this sharing may go in case I reuse copyrighted material - even if I don't seek any commercial interest at all, that is. Any help here would be appreciated.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Magpie View Post
    OTOH, as I understand things, profiting from this program is right out. Between Wizards and Eidos, I fear you'd be minced. Even putting it on a site under a couple of Google ads would be risky IMO. But it's a very nice thing to share with friends. Without going into a copyright debate, I'd recommend looking into ways of covering your back. Perhaps an explanatory or disclaimer splash screen? An EULA? I don't know.
    Yup, there is absolutely no profit intended here, neither now nor later. I'm not asking even for donations - I'm doing it just for the pure fun, both of myself and of everyone I share this game with. Not sure if such a game, even if it's totally free for everyone and has a proper disclaimer/EULA, will still be OK to share, and I have no idea what position Eidos/WotC may assume here. I have some modding experience in general (not Thief-related), I've been modding a D&D game for a while, and no one cared as long as the resulting mod was free for use and didn't ruin the right owner's commercial interests. But I'm not sure if it's the same or different for the Thief games and the Thief Universe...

    Quote Originally Posted by The Magpie View Post
    In sum, I believe you would want to go with Thief-themed, rather than Thief-styled cards. However, it depends on what you wish to accomplish with it. If you'd like to market that in any way, you're doomed.
    Right-o.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hewer
    Maybe try talking to New Horizon and Springheel over at The Dark Mod to see if they would cooperate with you. They've got a whole backstory and setting all written up on their wiki. There's also audio and concept art for it. I can't speak for them of course, but I really like what they are doing and think it's a great Thiefy alternate to avoid copyright infringement. It's a great setting for fan works.
    This would be an interesting idea in case we decide that going with the Thief universe itself is a no-go. Can you please provide a link to their wiki, perhaps in a PM? I'd be interested to take a look at it.

    Hope this clarifies my point a bit.
    Last edited by Gadget2006; 29th Jan 2008 at 01:22.

  12. #12
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2007
    I'd think the least work would be using Thief art and/or fan art. For Thief concepts and names, there's the ETU coming up some time in the future, of course, but it should be feasible to make do with a less structured way of info collecting in the meantime.

    Here's the Dark Mod Wiki, by the way:

    http://modetwo.net/darkmod/wiki/

    --
    L.
    Last edited by The Magpie; 29th Jan 2008 at 19:31.

  13. #13
    jtr7
    Guest
    The ETU's a long way off, but I have a fairly speedy way of getting answers to canon questions, having streamlined the searching & gathering of data for the games. I'm familiar enough with the Thief idiom to know what to look for. Let me know if you want to confirm something.

  14. #14
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2008
    Threadomancy!
    This has been a long-dead (well, seemingly dead, that is) topic, guess not many people actually believed that I was actually creating this Flash card game in the first place (only a few people responded), but I'd like to announce that I'm still actively working on this card game, I actually worked on it all this time (yep, for the last two years, with a couple breaks due to real life issues) and right now the game is closing in on the state when it'd be considered more or less complete. This time is still at least a few months away, but at least I'm definitely getting there. Currently I have the following:

    - Almost 80 different cards supported, the game has finally become interesting and varied enough. ISSUE: Not all of the cards have Thief Universe or Thief-Style names, some of them are still quite generic because I don't have a good idea as to how to name them to sound more or less Thiefish.
    - Smart, competitive AI that can beat the junk out of the player if he plays carelessly or doesn't pay too much attention to what's going on. It uses a combination of heuristic algorithms and all known Gauntlet tricks and cliche strategies in order to try and find best card combinations in almost any situation. There's still a number of issues left, mostly minor ones, but they're getting sorted out quickly enough.
    - Possibility to load AI profiles from external .ini files; right now it's possible to change over 170 parameters of the AI without having to change anything in the game code, which opens up possibilities to create different skill levels or just different personalities for computer-controlled opponents, ranging from purposefully dumb goofballs (easy skill levels) to smart, designing tacticians (hard skill levels).

    The main issues with the game are the same as they were two years ago: 1)the game isn't 100% Thiefish - it needs Thiefish or at least Thief-style interface and Thiefish/Thief-style card names; 2) I'm still not sure if I want to make it 100% Thiefish, since I'm not sure if I can use any names like "Garrett" and "Trickster" in it, in the end I probably won't use any names like that and maybe make just a Thief-style game, similar to The Dark Mod's approach to naming conventions etc.

    I remember there was someone on the boards who voted to help me with the game interface. Unfortunately, I lost that man's e-mail address and I'm not sure what his nickname was here, the only thing I seem to remember is his real name. Gideon (I think), if you're still here and if you're reading this, are you still up to help me with the game interface?

    Also, if anyone else is interested, would you like to test the game (check it out, even though it's unfinished) and possibly help me out with card names and game interface? I can't and don't want to release the game publicly yet (not till it's finished and not till I've sorted everything out with the card and entity names), but I can send a beta version to some of you guys who would like to actively participate in helping me out to finish the project. Please tell me what exactly you can do and what help you can provide, if any.

  15. #15
    jtr7
    Guest
    Actually, we were waiting for you to show the goods! I take it the interface is your priority now, since we've offered what else we can?

  16. #16
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2007
    Good to hear.

    I actually still believe that using Thief names, images, etc. would for all practical and noncommercial purposes be OK, and no harm will come of it. Poke around the Thief Wiki for ideas.

    Just remember to credit LGS and Ion Storm. =)

    --
    L.

  17. #17
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2008
    Alrighty then. Yeah, the game will obviously be completely non-commercial and free for everyone, I'm not planning to make any money off of it whatsoever, not even in the form of donations.

    During the next few days I'll work on creating a "spoiler list" for the game that will contain names of all the cards in their current state; I'll just go ahead and post the list here, separating it into two groups - more-or-less Thief-like and currently non-Thief-like. I'd appreciate it if you'll be able to come up with Thief names for cards that are currently non-Thiefish.

  18. #18
    jtr7
    Guest
    A list to "convert" would be good.

  19. #19
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2006
    Location: MD, USA
    Just to add support so your morale remains high, I really look forward to seeing this!

    As a fellow game designer, I appreciate all the effort. Thank you!

  20. #20
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2003
    Location: Southquarter
    I've yet to read through the whole thread, but I think I get the general idea - and it sounds great. It would be helpful to see a working sample though, as I never played this kind of card games before.

    I always wanted to do card art, but don't really have the time for anything more than small sized b&w artworks once in a while. How close to the original thief world would the art direction have to be (references, visual style etc.)?

    You can see my website for art samples and the taffer art thread here at the forums.

  21. #21
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2006
    Location: MD, USA
    Interestingly, Red, I've been meaning to contact you about your art (which is awesome); I'll chuck a PM your way when I've had some breakfast :-)

  22. #22
    New Member
    Registered: May 2008
    Well its just now I saw this thread, but just to point the obvious... THIS IS THE BEST THREAD EVER! HURRAY!

    I am so fun of card games and Thief games, that this could make my ideal one. Thanks so much for the effort.

    Well actually it would be great if you made it like an adventure. And adding some prizes (like if you complete lvl 10 you can unlock a super card (constantine for example) so it would be like a COLLECTNG card game. I dont know if I can be any useful, but I hope I can provide you with many ideas for mosters and bios and try to find for u some artwork.

    I happen to know well enough the thief universe (playing thief since i was 10) and I could provide you with great stuff.

    Also I think it would be great idea to add some stuff from some fm that have already made an impact (eg Night in Rocksbourg ot T2X - lots of enemies there). If you want u can give me your mail and I will contact you the soonest.

    Maybe be the weekend I will try to gather all enemies and bios, so you can update or fullfill your deck.

    Also, I happen to be a programmer but I know little or none out of flash programing or ai. So don't count on it

  23. #23
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2008
    Hey guys, sorry it's taking a little long with the card list - I'm in the middle of sorting out some details here'n'there, but I'm still on track to provide you with the list next week.

    @ Aceyalone: I'd appreciate your participation in the project, you're very welcome to join in! Please PM me with the details, I'll send you a test version of the game and provide you with some extended info.
    Last edited by Gadget2006; 30th Apr 2009 at 23:35.

  24. #24
    New Member
    Registered: May 2008
    Actually, I wrote the previous post in haste, so I will fix up some things in that post. I would really want to see the beta-version but as far as the names are concerned, i need to have a clear percentage of eg creatures and traps. Or else I can gather themed -like cards, but still not knowing if all are gonna be useful.

    A second matter is that the Thief - universe creatures are among 30 or such
    Are u sure that are enough for such a big deck such as yours.

    Last but not least as i said above, i think the interest will pass away easily, unless you put some challenges in it, or levels
    or even unlocking some cards from the total deck

    Since you have played magic the gathering you would know that some cards are common , some rare and some unique.

    And I think fusion cards dont mengle well with thief universe. I am big fan of such games and I would really love to see some work (I will help u as much as I can) but some things just dont work out with Thief Universe...

  25. #25
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2009
    Location: Atlantis
    Dude, THIS IS FREAKIN AWESOME! I've never really played MTG (have tried others) but for this I think I'd be willing to give it a try. I'm not much of a designer but I'm definitely up for beta-testing and helping with Thief-ish names. BTW I agree with Magpie, you're good with using in game names so long as you don't try to make money off it, even then I doubt they'd complain, Thief isn't exactly on Eidos' A-Team.

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