Broken Triad Released (05/31/08)

[Stingm]

Have you tried Angeloader? I never had an issue with it.

[baeuchlein]

I only tried AngelLoader for a short while for "Broken Triad". My aim was to recreate/reproduce a situation where I had problems with scripts, and then to analyze why these occurred. I had a hard time achieving that goal, but with NewDartkLoader (which FKenFord used, as far as I remember), I finally succeeded... sort of. But still, no usable new information resulted from that.-shrug- As you can see, I brought it all upon me by myself. Thanks for the advice, though.

I usually go with FMSel, by the way, which also usually gives me no trouble. The reason is that from 2019 to November of 2023, my thieving was done on a machine which could not run Windows 10 in a useful way, but could do it with Wine and Linux. Thief and Thief 2 ran with only some very tiny problems. It was easy to get FMSel running under these circumstances, but I could not solve problems preventing AngelLoader and NewDarkLoader from working. Currently, though, things are on the move again, since said machine went belly-up at the beginning of November 2023, and so I went back to an old but working other machine again - but that's another story...

[Kin]

Replayed the first mission but at the end the keeper in my appartment at some point he stops talking and nothing happens. Even ctrl+alt
+shift+end leads me to a black screen in the next mission with the health bar and light gem visible. I am loading with fmsel. Am I missing any scripts or something?

edit: ok I've read the previous page commnets and looks like it has not been solved yet.

[Azaran]

Actually, I checked my cam_mod.ini. and changed the line from ;uber_mod_path mods\UpToDateOSMs+MyGemMod to uber_mod_path .\OSM, sorry if

I'm playing after a few years, and this didn't work for me. The Keeper just stays stuck there indefinitely

[Azaran]

Also, no subtitles

[baeuchlein]

These last reported problems "smell" like some problems with scripts, which seem to be very common with this campaign, especially in recent years. So far, no definite bugfix has been found. A fix for a general script-related problem has been in the works, but so far has not been tested well. I am afraid there will not be any solution to this problem in the near future. Sorry.

[Azaran]

These last reported problems "smell" like some problems with scripts, which seem to be very common with this campaign, especially in recent years. So far, no definite bugfix has been found. A fix for a general script-related problem has been in the works, but so far has not been tested well. I am afraid there will not be any solution to this problem in the near future. Sorry.

Shame

[Polsius]

nevermind

shict-ctrl-alt-end ftw

[Stefan B.]

Actually, I checked my cam_mod.ini. and changed the line from ;uber_mod_path mods\UpToDateOSMs+MyGemMod to uber_mod_path .\OSM, sorry if I didn't update you earlier but I wanted to check if it was alright, and apparently, you nailed the problem, infact I was able to conclude both Arkford and Tempest Isle without any problem at all. I really want to tank you very much for the help you have given to me @baeuchlein @fortuni @R Soul. This is a beautiful community.

This helped me a lot, thank you all!

I had the same entry as Wallaby - maybe it's the Steam version (used the newest TFix from ModDB) - and the infamous entry scene with the hammer was missing. After changing the uber_mod_path, the new scripts are now properly loading.

Here is hoping that this bump might help some other people wanting to enjoy this fabulous set of missions.

[Plumph]

Hoping someone can advise regarding a problem I'm having.

I'm playing Eshaktaar's missions and have completed Keyhunt & Ominous Bequest. I'm now playing Broken Triad.

At some point in the game, I could no longer read readables on the wall (the first I noticed was "Cloakroom" not showing).

At first, messages were viewable but then stopped (which is why I knew that the wall plate had earlier read "Cloakroom").

Books or other items on desks are readable when right-clicked.

Items such as notices on the wall regarding the musical input device were visible but no longer are. The museum exhibit plates can't be read.

I have restarted and the above items are no longer viewable even in a new game. I have loaded earlier saves but I make so many saves that even the earliest one behaves in the same way.

Is there something simple that I have accidentally clicked to change the way items are viewed? I've looked through settings but couldn't see anything obvious. I even reloaded Keyhunt and all items in that mission are still viewable.

Any help would be appreciated.

[Plumph]

I reply to my own query, after getting stuck by the woodchipper unable to read the plate, I uninstalled and re-installed the game.

Readables are now working.

[FKenFord]

Interesting behavior, which I saw as well... though I couldn't swear that I *ever* saw the readables to begin with.

Wonder if this is related to (or at least another clue about) the inability of some (including me) to complete the first mission (whether via normal playthrough or Ctrl+Shift+Alt+End).

FWIW, @baeuchlein, I was indeed using NewDarkLoader, but switched to fmsel with no success.

I know there's no active effort to track the "unable-to-finish" bug down ATM, but any/every bit of info could be useful. -shrug-

Plus, I *really* want to play the next mission.

[downwinder]

most missions let you ctrl/alt/shift/end to skip mission unless they are not wanting you to skip

looking at you gort and zontik, but i will be honest i love that as it forces me to get good enough to beat the mission

[baeuchlein]

Concerning Plumph's problems: Looking at the first mission in DromEd2 strongly suggests that NVScript has failed to work. Scripts again... but I still don't get why this happens.-scratches head-

[Plumph]

I'm back to head scratching again as, although I can now read plates on walls etc, the flower card does nothing.

I don't like to look through the mission threads as quite often a couple of problems are lumped together and give me hints that I'd rather not see but on this occasion, I did. I swapped NVScript.osm (which in the archive I had was dated April 2008) to one dated August 2024, I changed this in both the archive folder for the mission and the Thief 2 folder. However, it made no difference - clicking on the flower card still does nothing.

[trefoilknot]

IIRC, the flower card doesn't DO anything in the world. It just contains important information for you to read.

Bigger spoiler: Who is the card addressed to?

EDIT: or, sorry, did you mean you can't even read it? If so, I've never encountered that issue before so don't have any tips... :/

[baeuchlein]

Plumph, it is possible that you have to restart the mission if you use new versions of scripts, or if you have saves where the flower card is already in a "broken state". And once again, NVScript seems to be involved in preparing the flower card when the player starts the mission. Suspicious...

From what I've seen in DromEd, the card will most likely do some technical stuff at the beginning of the game, and if that does not work, the game might fail at the point where you would need the info from the card - even if you guess the correct info and use it.

[Plumph]

From what I've seen in DromEd, the card will most likely do some technical stuff at the beginning of the game, and if that does not work, the game might fail at the point where you would need the info from the card - even if you guess the correct info and use it.

Yes, you're right. I restarted the game and could read the card. Coincidentally, it was the info I needed for the game I'd originally been playing, so I reloaded that. The info from the card did work as required but then the readables stopped working again (the plaques etc - except for the Blacksmith plaque which always seems to work). Odder & odder!

So I've bitten the bullet and restarted. It's worth mentioning that someone had said earlier in this thread that if you don't get the weird spinning hammer at the start, where Garrett says "What the..?", then the scripts aren't working properly. I definitely didn't get that on the original attempt as I was surprised to see it on restart.

[baeuchlein]

For some reason, the scripts seem to be particularly fragile when playing "Broken Triad", yet no one has been able to find out why so far.-sigh-

[FKenFord]

As others discovered, using "good" NVScript and tnhScript solved my problems (Keeper Lennard convo getting "stuck", Ctrl+Alt+Shift+End not working).

Easiest way for me to accomplish this was simply overwriting the mission scripts (after install) with the good ones. I know this is not a permanent fix, but I just wanted to test it. Now, for fun, I may try putting the good ones somewhere else and mess with uber_mod_path, although I'm concerned about how other missions will like this. IDK.

As someone mentioned, updating the mission zip with the good scripts seems like the correct (long term) approach. Not being a mission creator/curator, I'm not sure how that is accomplished.

I had never even looked at thief2.log before this journey, so that was good -- and showed me that those two scripts were problematic (i.e. error'ed out during load).

Thanks for all the info and patience. I feel like I've caught up somewhat!

[baeuchlein]

I think the latest T2Fix (v1.27e at the time of writing) already offers the option to install newer versions of the standard scripts (tnhscript.osm, nvscript.osm, script.osm) in the osm folder and use them via the uber_mod_path setting (in cam_mod_ini) instead of the scripts present in FMs.

[FKenFord]

I think the latest T2Fix (v1.27e at the time of writing) already offers the option to install newer versions of the standard scripts (tnhscript.osm, nvscript.osm, script.osm) in the osm folder and use them via the uber_mod_path setting (in cam_mod_ini) instead of the scripts present in FMs.

Yeah, I am ignorant of how missions and the base game (via t2fix) need to modify/customize/provide scripts, so if uber_mod_path *is* specified, that will potentially ignore "custom" mission-specific versions of these scripts, right?

So, if a mission creator *really* wanted their scripts to win, they have no way if uber_mod_path is set. Not sure if this is a (potential) problem, just reflecting back my understanding.

I'll reiterate I'm coming from a (relatively) deep well of ignorance regarding why/when/how these scripts need updating (especially for a specific mission).

This is bringing back memories -- some pleasant, some not-so-pleasant! -- of creating/maintaining tools/runtimes for video game pipelines/platforms back in my working days.

[baeuchlein]

With uber_mod_path set and scripts present in that path, the door to ignoring scripts inside the FM archive is open, but there are some safeguards which are meant to prevent consequences being too hazardous.

Many FMs have standard script modules in their archive which were current at the time of the FM being packaged. These will then only be "replaced" by the ones in the uber_mod_path, and these should be newer, but provide the same functionality. As long as the player restarts the whole mission if he has savegames made with older script versions, there should be no problems arising from this.

Some FMs have altered, "curstom" versions of standard scripts in the archive. The CoSaS missions ("Gathering at the Inn", "Mission X", "Switching Rails" (prototype)) are possibly the only ones falling into this category. The custom versions of these scripts in the FM are usually renamed (e.g., cosscript.osm). These will still be used and not be replaced by newer versions of the unaltered standard scripts.

Whether older standard script versions in the uber_mod_path would be used instead of more up-to-date versions present in a FM archive I don't know, but if the player updates his game with new T2Fix versions after a reasonable time, the probability of this problem happening would be rather small, I guess.

I dimly remember that there are some additional safeguards that should further reduce the risk of outdated script versions being used. For example, AFAIK, the newest T2Fix has some mechanism built-in that does try to load newer variants of scripts if it notices that older scripts have already been loaded.

Still, all this does not explain why the scipts seem to fail more often in "Broken Triad" than in other missions. This still causes a serious amount of head-scratching every now and then.

[FKenFord]

I'm glad I replaced the "bad" scripts (NVScript and tnhScript) with the good ones, because I was able to finish both missions and I just gotta say, "Wow!"

They were each excellent, exciting, challenging, and fun. And each earned their plaudits in different and unique ways.

Looks like Eshaktaar is no longer active here, but I'm still going to give them a big shout out. What a superb pair of missions. Thanks, Eshaktaar!