TTLG|Jukebox|Thief|Bioshock|System Shock|Deus Ex|Mobile
Page 41 of 41 FirstFirst ... 61116212631363738394041
Results 1,001 to 1,021 of 1021

Thread: COSAS 2 Mission X - Available Now ... 8-15-08

  1. #1001
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2020
    Location: Germany
    To be honest I never managed to get into the ventilation system cause I never found the ventilation key. Can you spoiler me where it was supposed to be?

    Now that I know that I can turn off a light with 2 water arrows I might give it a try again someday after all. But yeah, there were so much readables and new added stuff to the usual thief experience that it was just too much all at once to remember everything.

  2. #1002
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2002
    Location: Maupertuis
    Quote Originally Posted by Samantha1 View Post
    To be honest I never managed to get into the ventilation system cause I never found the ventilation key. Can you spoiler me where it was supposed to be?
    Yikes. Playing MX without using the ventilation system raises its difficulty quite a bit. The ventilation system is safe, fast and spans every floor of the hotel. It goes in a big loop, so you can get disoriented but not lost. In contrast, pleasant areas like the central foyer are (by design) the most dangerous locations, even with their alluring shadows and wooden floors.

    The ventilation key appears in the second floor utility room, right next to the northeastern staircase. It appears after taking the first objective if you choose to disable the cameras; otherwise, it appears after Steel finishes disabling the camera. There may have been spare ventilation keys too, but if so I don't remember where they were.

    For better or for worse, we decided not to go for the usual Thief experience. However, this thread did just make it to a thousand replies, so at least our experiment did not go unnoticed.

  3. #1003
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2020
    Location: Germany
    No wonder I thought it was so hard to get by all those guards

    Maybe when I replay it my positive thievy experience for mission X will rise quite abit

    Unnoticed for sure not, it´s a well done project so far so there´s no way it could go without that big of attention

  4. #1004
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2014
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchic Fox View Post
    There are actually very few rooms that require keys! However, the back entrances are sometimes very difficult to notice. The two vent systems give many back entrances, as do the outside balconies and the rafters in the central foyer.

    At one point, it was possible to complete a "challenge run" of the level that required you to take no keys except for the ventilation key and Cloud's key, but I think that became impossible once the two clubhouse areas were added.
    Well, it's interesting, but if you want to cover all the casino, it's inevitable (especially with the that key from Stormclouds - maybe it just me - I always stuck in some fairly simple situations). But I think it is connected wih another issue - MX hugely overwhelmed me. It was so big and full of stuff that it was sometimes hard to manage with (team factor also contribute to this - it was hard to predict whether I will fail this mission in some circumstances, situations or not - for example, if I KO some guard and place his body somewhere - where other guard sometimes patrols - will he notice, and if he notice would it be the end of our spy infiltration...). I surely will replay this mission since it was unique and fun though.

  5. #1005
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2002
    Location: Maupertuis
    Yeah, that was a design flaw from the start, and there's no fixing it.

    As for hiding the bodies, though... think about the places you put them; there are places guards won't go at all. Namely the storage room in the basement, the theater prop room, the janitor's closet on the top floor, and the bathroom stalls. And if worse comes to worse, stick them in the ventilation system.

    Another tiny fact: the ventilation system (the main one, not the secret one, which is busted) is an evaporative cooling system. Water's steadily fed into pools on its lowest levels. It evaporates, thus cooling the remaining water. The water vapor circulates up through the vent system, while the cooled water is fed back into the plumbing. In the summer, the vents are kept open; in the winter, they're closed and locked. The system does have the teensy downside of leaving remote fixtures, like electric lights, dripping with water. Raputo wasn't lying when he said the place costs a fortune to maintain, and the ventilation system is the reason.
    Last edited by Anarchic Fox; 28th Jul 2020 at 11:10.

  6. #1006
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2014
    Thanks, Anarchic Fox! Sorry for not answering for a long time! I'm now replaying it and maybe MX is kind of mission which may hugely overwhelm you at first, but are still very interesting while revisiting (when you already know basics and layout).

  7. #1007
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2002
    Location: Maupertuis
    Have fun with it!

  8. #1008
    New Member
    Registered: Aug 2021
    Hi, so I got pretty far (explored everywhere that I was able to) up until a point. It wasn't entirely clear what I was supposed to do next, and I had spent two hours figuring it out, so I consulted a walkthrough. Apparently you can use the mask but when I select it and right click, nothing happens? Also, the dagger when I pick up my gear is missing too. Changing difficulty didn't help. Is this download bugged?

    If it helps, I installed it using FMSel.

  9. #1009
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2018
    Quote Originally Posted by officer View Post
    Hi, so I got pretty far (explored everywhere that I was able to) up until a point. It wasn't entirely clear what I was supposed to do next, and I had spent two hours figuring it out, so I consulted a walkthrough. Apparently you can use the mask but when I select it and right click, nothing happens? Also, the dagger when I pick up my gear is missing too. Changing difficulty didn't help. Is this download bugged?

    If it helps, I installed it using FMSel.
    Check 1st post for Newdark version of this mission.

  10. #1010
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2011
    my thoughts (too disorganised to count as a review):

    so i just played CoSaS: Mission X for the first time, and now i am writing up the lp episode summaries, and i just realised i couldnt remember what the goal of the whole mission was. we broke in to… turn off elevator power and some cameras?? then do some chores and leave???

    (i looked it up. something about raputo storing bonds in the vault that we need to grab. why are they in the vault, this isnt raputos casino (yet), and the negotiations havent concluded yet! oh well.)

    ambitious concept and very technically accomplished generally, scripting in particular. i dont think it really came together in the end, and it has a lot of big flaws for sure. the end result is a decent mission, but clearly short of what it could have been.

    i thought the radio communication was done really well. despite others saying they wished you could see your teammates around, i didnt feel that was needed. a voice on the other side of a radio can feel much more alive than a poorly animated puppet. although many games have a character on the other end of the radio who magically knows exactly where you are at all times and spoonfeeds you tasks, MX did not fall into that trap/trope, thankfully. the rest of the team was communicating what they were doing, and throwing around a little banter. that was great (although a little less nagging about how slow i was doing wouldve been nice, steel!)

    the general layout of the mission was mostly pretty bland. the ground floor was the strongest, yet the least time was spent there. i have yet to play a _great_ mission set in a hotel. i think fundamentally any place with numerous near-identical, impersonal purposeless rooms—except for sleeping—tends toward blandness.

    and ventilation ducts: just say no, kids!

    having the alarm being an instafail was a terrible idea. at one point i got in a situation where i quicksaved while someone somewhere was still searching for me, and 15 seconds later someone set off the alarm. and my previous hard save was an hour earlier.

    ending the mission with a bunch of menial tasks was a dud. if you want the player to do silly menial tasks, get them to do that _first_, while theyre undercover (as a hotel worker obviously, not a guest), both so they can case the place a little, and so you can ramp up to more exciting objectives later.

    in the end, i think MX does a very good job of showing that a mission: impossible style team infiltration mission _can_ be a great fit with thiefs systems—even though it doesnt itself manage to pull that off effectively.

  11. #1011
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2001
    Location: The Crippled Burrick
    Quote Originally Posted by vfig View Post
    (although a little less nagging about how slow i was doing wouldve been nice, steel!)
    Steady on! That was the best part of the mission!

  12. #1012
    New Member
    Registered: Jan 2024
    Is there any reason why the objective about copying the documents is not checked out?
    I have copied all 5 documents (they all have a check in the stats), I have 5 copied documents in my inverntory but the main objective about copying important documents is failed for some reason

  13. #1013
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2004
    Location: Germany
    The only thing I find in fortuni's walkthru is that you have to exit the "Ivory Rose" area in order for this objective to tick off. I do not remember how it worked when I played "Mission X".

  14. #1014
    New Member
    Registered: Jan 2024
    Maybe it depends on the difficulty, the walkthroughs I checked were mainly Impossible or Professional. I was playing on the Expert and after copying each document the new ticked off objective with the name of the document appeared in my objective list. But after finishing the mission, the optional objective "Make a copy of any document which would be useful to The Circle" is failed.
    Anyway, thanks for help!

  15. #1015
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2004
    Location: Germany
    Interesting... I just checked out my old savegames of v1.14 of the mission, and there is a similar problem present in one of the saves. In this case, I played on Expert (which is the lowest difficulty level in Mission X), and my map page shows all five chores of Rubber crossed out, but the objective is unchecked (not fulfilled). When Dante uses the mask to tell his fellows that he is leaving the "Ivory Rose", he also tells Rubber that his chores are completed.

    This prevents me from finishing the mission, so whether the objective for the five copied scrolls would tick off or be marked as "failed" I can't say.

    The names of the savegames suggest I was so frustrated that I used a former savegame to finish the mission. That was with Rubber's chores completed (and counting as such) but one document not copied, but I had had enough anyway.

  16. #1016
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: 27430 Cells
    I just gave it a test and the objective for Rubber's chores worked fine. One possiblity is that there was some glitch, another is that one of the tasks might have become undone (e.g. most will remain done, but it's possible to unlock the doors to the clubhouse again, or move the drunk guard out of the office, though the second one is unlikely to happen).

    Not sure about the document situation. The mission only allows the correct ones to be copied, so if you have one or more it should be fine. Again, it could be some random glitch where something didn't register. I'd be willing to look at any savegames either of you have and if the underlying actions are fine, I could tweak things to allow the mission to finish correctly.

  17. #1017
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2004
    Location: Germany
    Your assumptions about one of the tasks having been undone were right. If one locks the doors to the clubhouse and then unlocks them again, the objectives screen correctly shows that you have not fulfilled that goal at this time. However, the crossed-out line on the map and the report to the team once Dante tells them that he is leaving the "Ivory Rose" are not updated, which leads to the confusion. Whether this can or should be corrected I do not know. Maybe a correction in the mission's Readme/Info files could also be an idea, or just making sure this problem is mentioned in one of the walkthroughs (fortuni, I'm looking at you!) for "Mission X".

    The problem that enough documents have been copied (reflected by the individual goals in the objectives screen), but the "summary" objective does not tick off did happen to me as well now. The game nevertheless ends with success, so that is a bug without any real consequence - in theory. However, since the player is not told that (s)he has to copy a certain number of documents, but "any useful ones", (s)he may search in vain for more documents at this point. Another candidate for the Readme files or walkthroughs, or something to be fixed? I'm not sure.

    Anyway, here is a savegame near the end with which these two problems might be investigated, if anyone thinks it is necessary. Dante is standing outside the clubhouse, and is ready to leave the mission. One of the clubhouse's double doors has been unlocked again. Five documents have been copied, but the objective to copy all (whatever that means...) documents which could be of use for The Circle has not ticked off. Dante has not told the team that he is leaving so far. The savegame was made on Expert (the easiest difficulty level) with version "114" of the mission.


    EDIT: Just to make it clear - I do not need a repaired savegame, as I could now handle both problems good enough to have the mission finish. The savegame is meant for anyone interested in potentially fixing the underlying issues.
    Last edited by baeuchlein; 16th May 2024 at 12:23. Reason: Clarify reason for posting the savegame

  18. #1018
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: 27430 Cells
    The situation with initial 'copy any document' objective can be confirmed as just a bug. It's supposed to become hidden once any document is copied (it's redundant at that point). Due to the number of possible documents, there are some additional optional objectives which suggest if there are any more documents you could find, and their visibility changes as you get more of them. Once you get all 5, you get a final one saying how awesome you are for getting 5.

    The cause of the bug is that for version 1.14 I replaced the copy of NVScript.osm that comes with this mission with the latest version (updated in 2017). I've double checked and when I put back the original 2008 copy, those additional document objectives all show/hide at the right moments. But the whole point of replacing that file was due to its importance in so many things, and it's usually best to have the latest versions of things. Having done a lot of digging I've found the objects that are affected. I guess it's time for a 1.15 release.

  19. #1019
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2015
    The reason that particular issue occurs is due to the space between the stimulus intensity and stimulus name in some relay parameters. Specifically, the objects named "OneCopy", "FourCopies", and "FiveCopies" should have this space removed in the "NVRelayTrapTOn" parameter to work with the newer modules. This DML should fix this, but perhaps a new release is still warranted.

    Code:
    DML1
    //T2 FM: Circle of Stone and Shadow: Mission X by Team CoSaS / Fix new NVScript compatibility: miss23.mis.dml
    
    ObjProp 286 "DesignNote" = NVRelayTrapTOn="[301]GenStim"; NVRelayTrapTOff="Null"; NVRelayTrapTDest="[Me]"
    ObjProp 274 "DesignNote" = NVRelayTrapTOn="[303]GenStim"; NVRelayTrapTOff="Null"; NVRelayTrapTDest="[Me]"
    ObjProp 252 "DesignNote" = NVRelayTrapTOn="[304]GenStim"; NVRelayTrapTOff="Null"; NVRelayTrapTDest="[Me]"
    Evidently, very old versions of NVScript were tolerant to this, though modern versions are not. I cannot say for certain, but it seems like this change was made to allow for the possibility of stimulus names with spaces in them, as the 2008 module does not permit this.

  20. #1020
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: 27430 Cells
    The above is exactly what I found. Those spaces could have been put in 20 years ago, and the change to NVScript will have been between 16 and 7 years ago. This is why we need time travel, none of that 'preventing disasters' nonsense.

    A new release could also include a way of making it more obvious if any of Rubber's tasks have been undone (for gameplay reasons it's probably best that the player can undo/redo the tasks for the drunk guard and clubhouse doors). I think any technical discussion is best done in the Editors' Guild.

  21. #1021
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: 27430 Cells
    I've implemented a system of *s that appear if either of the last two chores are undone. There are 4 for each of them, which should be enough for the player to work out what's going on. If the chore gets done again, the * gets crossed out. After 4 times any further messing around shows no changes to the map but the player will still hear the 'note' sound and see the quill as a hint to check that page (unless carrying the guard of course).
    Underneath the task list a footone will appear saying "* Do this again" to make it very clear what the other *s mean.

    I've now found the bit that had the wrong sounds being played. The system didn't have a means to respond to the chores becoming undone, but I know a way to reset the sounds so the player and Rubber will have the right conversation.

    Once done it could do with some testing but I've tried to be very surgical with what I've changed.

Page 41 of 41 FirstFirst ... 61116212631363738394041

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •