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Thread: Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2

  1. #376
    Level 10,000 achieved
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Finland

    I necro'd this thread. And the world just fucking watched.

    Just finished the singleplayer camapign. Wow. This game is not short on amazing setpieces. The first 2 or 3 missions are a bit slow, but then the controversial "No Russian" mission comes up. And let me tell you, the "No Russian" mission is absolutely essential. It sucks you into the story right away. And it has to be something you play. If it was just a cutscene it wouldn't be the same thing. If it was just detailed in the briefing it wouldn't be the same thing. Acts of terrorism are so common in todays world that we hardly bat an eyelash at them anymore, even less so in a videogame. But to put the player in that position, to actually be there but helpless to do anything, and it's much more shocking. It really brings the brutality of it home. And the way that mission ends! Man.

    I was totally hooked on the story after that. But that's not even the story's emotional highpoint. There are a dozen memorable setpieces after that one and particularly a couple near the end that manage to shock the same way the airport scene does. There were a few parts that even made me feel something that I can't recall many other games have managed to stir in me. Despair. You know? Like when Emperor Palpatine tells Luke about the trap he's set for the Rebel forces. Or that bit in Toy Story 3, when they're in the the junkyard. Game narratives usually can't inspire that kind of despair in me, I always know that no matter how bleak things may look just before the ending, a few well-placed combos and a good number of quickloads will mean that the good guys win in the end. But there were parts near the end of MW2 where I sat with my controller in my hands, staring at the loadingsceen, not sure whether a new level was loading or the endcredits were about to roll and the badguys had indeed won.

    Fantastic story throughout, and well presented. As for the gameplay: well it's an above-average shooter. There were a few parts that I felt were a bit trial-and-error-y and also a few parts where I didn't really know what I was supposed to be doing. The game also looks fantastic and the animations are top-notch. This game is quite cheap by now, so even if you're, like me, not all that interested in the multiplayer it's still a price-worthy purchase. I got the Hardened Edition for around 25 euros, which included a downloadable version of CoD1(which I haven't played before).

    SinglePlayer Campaign: 8/10
    Last edited by henke; 29th Nov 2010 at 15:38.

  2. #377
    Taking the Death Toll
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Location: ideally far away
    Yeah MW2's a fantastic game as long as you don't play multiplayer. It's got some serious flaws (fuck you Brazil, among a few minor issues of poor research) but the plot isn't half as incoherent as I'd feared it was and the overall premise makes a frightening amount of sense.

  3. #378
    Taking a break
    Registered: Dec 2002
    Quote Originally Posted by henke View Post
    And let me tell you, the "No Russian" mission is absolutely essential. It sucks you into the story right away.
    That's funny. I finished MW2 four times and I skipped "No Russian" each time precisely because it's so fucking retarded and doesn't make any sense story-wise.

    But there were parts near the end of MW2 where I sat with my controller in my hands
    With the controller, you say...

  4. #379
    Level 10,000 achieved
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Finland
    Koki's reason for not playing the No Russian mission is the same reason I'm not replying to his post.

    PS. This is not me replying to Koki's post. I'm just writing stuff to the general public but noone in particular ok.

  5. #380
    Taking a break
    Registered: Dec 2002
    Quote Originally Posted by henke View Post
    PS. This is not me replying to Koki's post. I'm just writing stuff to the general public but noone in particular ok.
    Ok!

  6. #381
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Washington DC
    Quote Originally Posted by Koki View Post
    doesn't make any sense story-wise.
    Then you are retarded. It's an act of terrorism pinned on the US to incite widespread backlash and muster support for a war. It's not fucking difficult to understand.

  7. #382
    Taking a break
    Registered: Dec 2002
    I don't think you should call other people retarded if you don't even get the point.

    The question is not what the massacre is for. The question is why the hell do you - Joseph Allan - take part in it.

    If the goal is Makarov, Allen can just shoot him in the face in the elevator, or in any other of the hundreds of opportunities he no doubt has since he's been put close to him. But lo and behold, actually killing Makarov ends the mission with a failure.

    If the whole thing is just an elaborate plan of Shepherd(or Shepherd and Makarov) to make Russia attack USA so that USA becomes a political/military superpower again once they beat the Russians back, then you gotta wonder what the fuck is Allen thinking. "Hey dude, follow this world's most wanted terrorist and help him slaughter hundreds of civilians", uh that doesn't sound like such a great idea now does it.

    The only possible explanation is that Allen is fully aware of Shepherd's plan to provoke Russia, and he's such a cold-blooded bastard that he's perfectly okay with it, but that is never estabilished at any moment in the game.

    So the whole thing is completely pointless, and most likely only in the game to make some media noise.

  8. #383
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2004
    Location: Does it matter?
    Koki's right. The idea is that Shepherd put Allen into the group knowing he'd be killed and his body would be found. This would incite Russia to declare war on the U.S.

    What isn't explained is how Allen's perfectly fine with gunning down hundreds of innocent civilians, and why he never seems to question why he isn't just shooting Makarov in the fucking face ASAP. Instead he just rolls with it.

    It's just one of the examples of how MW2, while still boasting a pretty exciting plot, likes to make some extreme logic jumps.

  9. #384
    Level 10,000 achieved
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Finland
    He isn't questioning command because he has faith in his commanding officers. Or at least that's what he tells himself because in the face of the overbearing brutality of what he's wittnessing he can't bring himself to step up and do what is right(shooting Makarov in the head). This is not an uncommon phenomenon, it's actually pretty fucking human to just keep your head down, go with the grain and try to tell yourself that someone else knows what's best. His commanding officers are telling him to play along even if it costs him a part of himself. He knows that if he shot Makarov he'd have his work cut out trying to fight of Makarov's men. Sure Allen knows what the right thing is to do, deep down, but he doesn't have the nerve to do it.

    That is perfectly human. But when things like that happen in a videogame or a movie it's decried as being unrealistic because it's not what the internet-toughguy sitting behind his computer would do. The internet-toughguy would go Rambo on Makarov's ass and he doesn't understand why Allen wouldn't.

    Now, considering the fact that the internet-toughguy is the one controlling Allen in this scenario I'll admit that having a Game Over screen when the player does do the right thing isn't a good solution. But for the sake of the story to be told the player is going to have to try to live himself into the part.

  10. #385
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2004
    Location: Does it matter?
    By your logic, Shepherd could have ordered Allen to detonate a nuke in an orphanage and he'd go along with it. Which is probably right, because I can only imagine Shepherd picked Allen because he's either A) A monster himself or B) Allen is a fucking moron.

    I get what you're saying (it certainly has happened enough through history), I just don't think it applies to the kind of scenario presented in MW2.

  11. #386
    Taking the Death Toll
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Location: ideally far away
    A few points to remember: By this point in the series' timeline, Russia and the United States are enemies again. Russia has martyred Zakhiev and the Ultranationalists run the country. By this point there likely are no longer even any diplomatic ties left.

    As to Allen...

    He may have been carefully vetted for this. They- as in Shepherd, and anyone else involved in the initial plan- likely already know that he spoke Russian, that he's unusually trusting of authority, etc. Strictly speaking, a plot that involves taking an Army Ranger and dropping him directly into the CIA, regardless of what the mission is, is probably going to involve some extensive vetting. So maybe Shepherd picked him in advance as the perfect guy who won't ask questions and already has the knowledge and know-how. On top of that, he was low-ranking and part of an elite military unit. He'd follow orders like a good soldier, and that's likely why he was picked. Any alarm bells ringing in his head would be muted by his sense of duty.

    That Shepherd's plan pretty much hinges entirely on Allen following orders is either extremely shortsighted of Shepherd or he is a ridiculously good reader of people.

  12. #387
    PC Gamering Smartey Man
    I <3 consoles and gamepads

    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: New Zealand
    Quote Originally Posted by henke View Post
    He isn't questioning command because he has faith in his commanding officers. Or at least that's what he tells himself because in the face of the overbearing brutality of what he's wittnessing he can't bring himself to step up and do what is right(shooting Makarov in the head). This is not an uncommon phenomenon, it's actually pretty fucking human to just keep your head down, go with the grain and try to tell yourself that someone else knows what's best. His commanding officers are telling him to play along even if it costs him a part of himself. He knows that if he shot Makarov he'd have his work cut out trying to fight of Makarov's men. Sure Allen knows what the right thing is to do, deep down, but he doesn't have the nerve to do it.
    Making up shit to justify plot holes left in a poorly thought-out and/or told game narrative? Seriously dude? Half-Life 2 Syndrome strikes again.

    Wait until you play Black Ops, timeline anachronisms coming out of the arse in that game. I.e. using guns and technology which didn't even exist in 1968. You'll have a whale of a time spewing bullshit to justify that stuff.
    Last edited by EvaUnit02; 30th Nov 2010 at 20:57.

  13. #388
    Level 10,000 achieved
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Finland
    Quote Originally Posted by T-Smith View Post
    By your logic, Shepherd could have ordered Allen to detonate a nuke in an orphanage and he'd go along with it.
    Something like that Allen would have time to think through. The airport is a different situation, Allen doesn't know what to expect. He's only been told that he'll have to do something that'll cost him a piece of himself, but that the price will be nothing compared to what he'll save.
    Quote Originally Posted by EvaUnit02 View Post
    Making up shit to justify plot holes left in a poorly thought-out and/or told game narrative?
    It's called suspension-of-disbelief, and it lets me enjoy a narrative even if there are some parts that don't immediately make sense. Sorry if you don't have it.
    Last edited by henke; 1st Dec 2010 at 01:54.

  14. #389
    PC Gamering Smartey Man
    I <3 consoles and gamepads

    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: New Zealand
    Quote Originally Posted by henke View Post
    It's called suspension-of-disbelief, and it lets me enjoy a narrative even if there are some parts that don't immediately make sense. Sorry if you don't have it.
    An example of suspense of disbelief would be like if say I were to over-look unrealistic elements or possibly "gamey" quirks of a game or game genre (eg some of the stuff listed on www.tvtropes.org like "First Person Ghost"). What you're doing is more akin to writing fanfics.

  15. #390
    Taking the Death Toll
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Location: ideally far away

  16. #391
    Level 10,000 achieved
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Finland
    No Eva, Suspension-of-disbelief applies to narratives as well and I have the Wikipedia page to prove it.

    I'm not saying I figured out Allen's motivations as I was playing the game. I just had the feeling that "this is what my character would do in this situation" and I went with it. His deeper feelings and reasonings is something I started wondering about when Koki and T-Smith started questioning why Allen would do that.

  17. #392
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Location: Girl with the Patreon Tattoo
    Yeah it's pretty obvious since the start that you're "role-playing" through it all. You gotta ask yourself what the developers had in mind when they created that mission. I'm sorry, but they're not clever enough to have hinted at a subtle slipping of the character into insanity or being terrorized by the horror of what is happening. Not with how he is portrayed before, not in this context.

    Keep role-playing all you want, this is how that kind of game should be played anyway - and the only way to enjoy it imo - , but Koki's still right.

  18. #393
    PC Gamering Smartey Man
    I <3 consoles and gamepads

    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: New Zealand
    Quote Originally Posted by henke View Post
    No Eva, Suspension-of-disbelief applies to narratives as well and I have the Wikipedia page to prove it.
    Christ, no shit it applies to narratives as well. Like in an episode of 24, Jack Bauer never seems to go to the toilet. You suspend your disbelief by shrugging it off and focusing what's happens on the screen and in the narrative.

    Trying to rationalise an emotionless, completely thoughtless mute protagonist's motivation/frame of mind/etc is not the same thing. You're more or less making your own internal fanfic. As I said before, it's HL2 Syndrome.

    Jack of Bioshock does some really fucking stupid shit in certain scripted sequences (that are out of the player's control) very early in the game. We will never know what was going on in his head at the time or if he in fact a complete moron because guess what, he was never given any dialogue or a voice outside of a couple lines in the opening FMV (I'm pretty sure that Atlas never "ordered" him to inject himself with that first Plasmid hypo. Even if Atlas had that still wouldn't even begin to explain why Jack does a running leap off of the balcony.)

    We actually know why the PC is forced to stab himself in the heart with a huge syringe and inject himself with some strange foreign substance - Irrational needed to establish the plasmid game mechanic and show the player how and where to acquire them (I.e. you can purchase new Plasmids from Gatherers' Garden vending machines). We would suspend our disbelief to gloss over this fact and get on with playing the game, not to rationalise the character's mindset.

  19. #394
    Taking the Death Toll
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Location: ideally far away

  20. #395
    Level 10,000 achieved
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Finland
    Quote Originally Posted by EvaUnit02 View Post
    Trying to rationalise an emotionless, completely thoughtless mute protagonist's motivation/frame of mind/etc is not the same thing. You're more or less making your own internal fanfic.
    Err, like I said in my last post
    Quote Originally Posted by henke View Post
    His deeper feelings and reasonings is something I started wondering about when Koki and T-Smith started questioning why Allen would do that.
    At the time of playing I wasn't writing any fanfics, I just had a feeling that this is probably what my character would do in this situation. If you don't think that's suspension-of-disbelief then I don't think this conversation is going to go anywhere.
    Last edited by henke; 5th Dec 2010 at 05:27. Reason: typo

  21. #396
    Taking the Death Toll
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Location: ideally far away
    Evabot clearly can't fathom the concept of faceless and/or voiceless characters being standins for the audience. This practice dates back at least as far as Citizen Kane with Thompson the reporter whose face is never seen clearly yet whose investigation drives the plot.

  22. #397
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: The Plateaux Of Mirror
    Yeah, but who the fuck projects motivations and emotions onto that faceless reporter that aren't even remotely implied by the narrative?

  23. #398
    PC Gamering Smartey Man
    I <3 consoles and gamepads

    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: New Zealand
    This game has aged well. They did a decent job updating the visuals. If the rumoured MW3 remaster comes out, I'd be keen for that.

    My biggest complaint is that the game is on the awful Battle.net launcher. Even Epic and Win10 UWP is better than this trash.











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