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Thread: The Top 10 FMs According to GarrettLoader

  1. #1
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: UK, Suffolk

    The Top 10 FMs According to GarrettLoader

    I thought seeing as GL now has over 10,000 scores that have been uploaded against 950+ FMs I would give you a list of the top 10.

    As a bit of a background
    Scoring should be calculated under these headings (a score calculator is located here http://www.potterdevelopments.org.uk...coring_FMs.HTM ):

    • Story
    • Architecture
    • Playability
    • Enjoyment
    • Innovation
    • Custom Content
    • Size
    • Theme / Setting

    Each section has a score from 1-10 ( 1 bad, 10 good) and combining all scores then dividing by 8 and rounding to the nearest whole number will give you a score.

    These scores are then uploaded by GarrettLoader users via GarrettLoader and GLs server then adds the score to the FMs current score values.


    The Calculations
    When scores are displayed (here http://www.potterdevelopments.org.uk...res/results.pl) you see the number of people that have submitted a score, the total score, the average score rounded to the nearest whole number (this is the value that GL users can download to GL) and a Decimal Score (an average of total / users with no rounding).

    Further to that if an FM has an average score more than or equal to 8 with more than 10 submitters its classed as HOT.
    Also if an FM has a score of more than or equal to 7 and has more than 50 submitters is also classed as HOT.
    So its only the FMs that I'm going to include here as they give a slightly better indication of peoples views than an FM that has a score of 10 but only one person has submitted a score for it.

    The Results (26/05/2009)
    Values are correct at time of writing this, obviously over time these figures will change (I'll update as often as possible).
    Format of (Avg Score) FM Name - num votes, total score.

    Thief 1 (138 FMs with scores submitted in total)
    1. (9) CALENDRA'S CISTERN - 29 votes, total score 261
    2. (9) LORGAN'S WEB - 13 votes, total score 113
    3. (9) THE MYSTERY MAN - 11 votes, total score 94
    4. (8) SEPULCHRE OF THE SINISTRAL - 13 votes, total score 104
    5. (8) AUTUMN IN LAMPFIRE HILLS - 20 votes, total score 158
    6. (8) LORD EDMUND ENTERTAINS! - 14 votes, total score 107
    7. (8) BLOODSTONE PRISON - 22 votes, total score 168


    Thief 2 (698 FMs with scores submitted in total)
    1. (9) THE 7 SISTERS - 43 votes, total score 405
    2. (9) BROKEN TRIAD - 37 votes, total score 345
    3. (9) OMINOUS BEQUEST - 86 votes, total score 780
    4. (9) THE DEN - 39 votes, total score 353
    5. (9) ANIR 3 (INK AND DUST) - 33 votes, total score 297
    6. (9) THE 7TH CRYSTAL - 62 votes, total score 551
    7. (9) CALENDRA'S LEGACY - 20 votes, total score 177
    8. (9) ROWENA'S CURSE - 36 votes, total score 316
    9. (9) EMILE VICTOR - 32 votes, total score 279
    10. (9) THE INVERTED MANSE - 32 votes, total score 278


    Thief 3 (not a huge amount here, 29 FMs with scores submitted in total)
    1. (8) THE BRIDGE - 186 votes, total score 1527
    2. (8) AVOIDING MISTRUST - 29 votes, total score 231
    3. (8) VALLEY - 34 votes, total score 268
    4. (7) ALL THE WORLD'S A STAGE - 97 votes, total score 724
    5. (7) THE CRYPT - 152 votes, total score 1109
    6. (7) EVICTED - 111 votes, total score 732


    System Shock 2 (again not a lot here, 9 FMs with scores submitted in total)
    1. (9) UNN NIGHTWALKER - 13 scores submitted, total score 117
    2. (9) PONTERBEE STATION - 18 scores submitted, total score 159


    Remember if you haven't uploaded your scores via GarrettLoader please do so.

    EDIT: a first draft of a live top 10 list is available here : http://www.potterdevelopments.org.uk/fm/scores/top10.pl
    I will look to do snapshots of the tables on a weekly basis on that page as well (if I can figure out how to automate it).
    Last edited by potterr; 4th Jun 2009 at 12:18.

  2. #2
    NewDark 64 Contest Winner
    Registered: Jul 2005
    Location: Locked Inside Dromed
    Wow, I'm amazed at how many votes the Thief 3 missions get, considering they get so little recognition on this board. There must be a large group out there that plays them that never post here. I mean, Ominous Bequest and Calendra's Legacy are 6 and 7 years old and they have only 100 votes between them.

    Actually, I just realized why while typing this. Most people who play the Thief2 missions are likely using Dark Loader.

  3. #3
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2005
    Location: The limbo region of hell
    Don't know about most, and certainly not all. I only have used Darkloader perhaps 3 times. If Garrettloader would handle the ogg/mp3/wav conversions on all FMs, that's all I'd ever use.

  4. #4
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2005
    Garrettloader seems a little more friendly (nice interface). And can load Thief 3 missions so anyone who plays likes T3 and T2 alike would feel fine with Garrettloader. I like it better.

  5. #5
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: UK, Suffolk
    Quote Originally Posted by kamyk View Post
    Don't know about most, and certainly not all. I only have used Darkloader perhaps 3 times. If Garrettloader would handle the ogg/mp3/wav conversions on all FMs, that's all I'd ever use.
    Latest beta handles it all fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xorak
    Wow, I'm amazed at how many votes the Thief 3 missions get, considering they get so little recognition on this board. There must be a large group out there that plays them that never post here. I mean, Ominous Bequest and Calendra's Legacy are 6 and 7 years old and they have only 100 votes between them.
    True, GL was distributed in a German, Italian and a few other language magazines, so my guess is that some of those votes come from those people that don't speak English and so don't really visit this board.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xorak
    Actually, I just realized why while typing this. Most people who play the Thief2 missions are likely using Dark Loader.
    I know, pity as the latest beta handles missions exactly the same as DL does, but gives you the scores system as well.
    I do know that a lot of people don't upload scores as well, often due to forgetting to or not being online, sometimes due to never actually finishing the FMs and sometimes due to not being sure about what data is sent up (which is basically your GL Unique ID, the FM name found via GL, the zip file name and the score you gave).

    I'll give the first post an update in about a week as when I looked at the scores 2 weeks ago and compiled a list then the T2 and T3 score table was fairly different. I may work out a top 10 page for FMs on the GL site itself, saves me compiling all the time.

  6. #6
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2007
    Location: Germany
    I'm curious how GarrettLoader updates his FM list?
    Do you update the database manually or do you use any kind of scripts or other automated mechanisms?

  7. #7
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: UK, Suffolk
    Quote Originally Posted by intruder View Post
    I'm curious how GarrettLoader updates his FM list?
    Do you update the database manually or do you use any kind of scripts or other automated mechanisms?
    On the web server side there is a database file that contains FM names, zip names, scores and links (to ttlg threads, loot list locations, walkthroughs, etc). When a score is uploaded the cgi script will check the submitted details are complete (GL itself won't allow you to upload a score for a FM that it can't work out a name for, generally the Thief community is good about naming standards in FMs), then compare against its database is various ways.
    If it finds a match it will flag the record then do a check against the user list (containing the GL unique ID and the FM's already submitted), if the person has already submitted a score for that FM then its rejected, if not then both tables are updated. The display and scores of the Full scores list are calculated during page load so its in real time.
    However this process can lead to a few duplicates of FMs if new versions are done and FMs get new names, corrected spellings or translated to other languages. So I do go through about once a month and combine records together and add additional links to the records when I come across them, other than that its all automated.

    In GL itself it uses a local relational database file unique to the player and maintains that for local scores and GL can download individually or in mass the group scores seen on GLs server. The mass download and update can take a few minutes sometimes as there is a lot to do which means its best to have GL check for new scores only about once a week rather than every day.

  8. #8
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2007
    Location: Germany
    Quote Originally Posted by potterr View Post
    However this process can lead to a few duplicates of FMs if new versions are done and FMs get new names, corrected spellings or translated to other languages. So I do go through about once a month and combine records together and add additional links to the records when I come across them, other than that its all automated.
    That make sense and thank you for all your work
    What do you do with the votes in the following situation:

    FM "A" has been released some time ago, the author updates it and releases it again. If people played the old version and submitted scores and now they find the new .zip (probably with additional sequels) they want to vote again, maybe because they liked the updated version better? If I understand you correct, you only allow one vote per FM (which makes sense of course) but this might not work with updated FM or?

  9. #9
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: UK, Suffolk
    Quote Originally Posted by intruder View Post
    That make sense and thank you for all your work
    What do you do with the votes in the following situation:

    FM "A" has been released some time ago, the author updates it and releases it again. If people played the old version and submitted scores and now they find the new .zip (probably with additional sequels) they want to vote again, maybe because they liked the updated version better? If I understand you correct, you only allow one vote per FM (which makes sense of course) but this might not work with updated FM or?
    It depends in this instance. I look for version numbers in the zip file names or FM names, and if possible find the thread about the FM and see what changes were made. Generally though the versions tend to be minor changes to bug fixes or wording a few weeks after initial release so I combine those together. For long gaps between releases or if there are major updates then I tend to leave them as separate entries. Its a bit hit and miss and the initial comparisons the scripts make do match more times than they should really (i.e. V1 of Ponterbee Station gets picked up the same as V3 does despite major additions to the campaign).

    What I have thought about with the new version of GL is an MD5 hash of the zip and FM name being sent up as well, so that more complete comparisons can be done. It wouldn't replace the existing process, just add a secondary check in.

  10. #10
    Member
    Registered: May 2005
    Location: Shenzhen, China.
    Only 43 votes for the Number 1 FM in all the God knows how many years since the GL scoring feature has been implemented ??

    Have I misunderstood it ? 43 votes in x years ?? I was expecting to read that the top FM had x thousand votes.

  11. #11
    Member
    Registered: May 2005
    Quote Originally Posted by malau View Post
    Only 43 votes for the Number 1 FM in all the God knows how many years since the GL scoring feature has been implemented ??

    Have I misunderstood it ? 43 votes in x years ?? I was expecting to read that the top FM had x thousand votes.
    For what? You how many times voted? I never but I will henceforth since when I know about it.
    Last edited by Sensut; 29th May 2009 at 05:16.

  12. #12
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: UK, Suffolk
    Quote Originally Posted by malau View Post
    Only 43 votes for the Number 1 FM in all the God knows how many years since the GL scoring feature has been implemented ??

    Have I misunderstood it ? 43 votes in x years ?? I was expecting to read that the top FM had x thousand votes.
    Not everyone votes (which is a pity as it helps everyone anyway) and its more dependant upon when the FM is played via GL. E.G. if someone played in using DL upon release, the likelyhood of playing through GL later on is very low for most people, unless they are (like me) slowly going through all the older FMs and playing again and uploading scores that may not have been uploaded yet. GL will have the UPLOAD score button Greyed out if it has already been uploaded.

  13. #13
    Member
    Registered: May 2005
    Location: Shenzhen, China.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sensut View Post
    For what? You how many times voted? I never but I will henceforth since when I know about it.
    I have never voted - Garretloader will not and never has, worked on my PC. I always get database errors (Which Mr Potter has tried many times to help me with).

  14. #14
    Member
    Registered: May 2005
    Quote Originally Posted by malau View Post
    I have never voted - Garretloader will not and never has, worked on my PC. I always get database errors (Which Mr Potter has tried many times to help me with).
    Me too, but now this new beta working well .

  15. #15
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: UK, Suffolk
    Quote Originally Posted by malau View Post
    I have never voted - Garretloader will not and never has, worked on my PC. I always get database errors (Which Mr Potter has tried many times to help me with).
    The new beta may resolve those issues for you, however if you have Vista or Windows XP SP2 or SP3 you should be able to use it out of the box now.


    Also for those interested there is a live top 10 table now available here:
    http://www.potterdevelopments.org.uk/fm/scores/top10.pl

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