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Thread: T3G: Mission Rework Progress

  1. #76
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Location: Prince Edward Island, Canada
    Exciting news. I can't wait to replay TDS the way it was meant to be played.

  2. #77
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    Quote Originally Posted by snobel View Post
    For the beta test it's probably better to pack it up as a fan mission. FMSel can handle that and probably TFMM/ML as well. Not sure about GL because of the .ibt name clashes.
    I just zipped the map files up and used FMSel to install it, but the original Inn map was loaded (at least after checking the modified maps and the date of the last changes, the blue footprints should have been gone... but they weren't). Maybe I'll find some time later today to see if the Pagan and Hammer Intro missions are the old, too. In fact I also had left in the user_patch file from my FM with some font changes which didn't display, plus the game used JohnP textures which shouldn't be the case since the new maps were compiled with the vanilla ones. I'm probably missing something really obvious, but that'll have to wait until this afternoon.

    If there wasn't the issue of JohnP and several other mods, I'd consider shipping T3G as an FM not too bad an option after all.

  3. #78
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    Did you use the correct structure, i.e. user_patch.ini in the root, map files in Content\T3\Maps? If you did, then I'd appreciate it if I could have a look at that archive...

    As for John P's textures, I'm almost sure that you can't use the current installer on top of a Gold-ified game (I think it makes changes to the IBT files at absolute offsets, NH may know more) so some kind of revamp will be necessary.

    I'm trying to modify the game to pre-load dynamic textures instead of 'post-loading' them only if they're not found in the IBTs. If that works out, then John P should work for the Gold maps and other mods, as long as the texture names are the same. And you'll be able to turn them on and off easily.
    Widescreen and tweaks patches: The Sneaky Upgrade for Thief 3, the Visible Upgrade for Deus Ex 2

  4. #79
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    I always assumed that JohnP works on top of the new maps since their names are still the same and that the search-for-texture-paths-and-change-them algorithm is somehow intelligent. IIRC the Child of Karras tested it this way but I cannot be extra sure. It's probably much different for the MP. The FM archive is here: [link removed for pre-beta maintenance]. I noticed that the property for intro movies before first mission is still set to "true" although it's "false" in the ini file. I didn't uninstall my FM in FMSel first but parallel installs were possible in the first place, right?
    Last edited by Beleg Cúthalion; 19th Sep 2013 at 17:41.

  5. #80
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    OK, I probably just remember it wrong. Anyway, if you'll provide the 'raw' map files, then I can provide the FM version - when I get it to work, because you're right, it doesn't load as an FM right now, even if you launch it through FMSel. (If you switch to windowed mode you can tell by the yellow window icon that it has given up running an FM and reverted to the OMs.) That shouldn't happen - I'll investigate. Good thing the 1.1.2.1 bugfix release is not out yet...

    Edit: No biggie - when an FM has been installed there's a small check to see if it's actually a valid FM. Currently it just looks for an Entry.gmp file in the Maps folder, because I didn't manage to find an FM which didn't have one. But of course, for this 'FM' Entry.gmp is identical to the OM one, so it doesn't need to be there...

    That check was always meant as a placeholder for a proper check. I'll change it in 1.1.2.1 to just check for the presence of the Maps folder instead (and that's still a placeholder...) In the mean time, just copy Entry.gmp into the unpacked 'FM' Maps folder, and then it will launch.
    Last edited by snobel; 21st Jul 2013 at 08:30.
    Widescreen and tweaks patches: The Sneaky Upgrade for Thief 3, the Visible Upgrade for Deus Ex 2

  6. #81
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    I've tweaked the zip file a bit more (and deleted the videos!) and re-uploaded it to replace the file linked above. Now it's much smaller and doesn't interfere with TDS as much. However, some AI awareness and possibly camera/movement adjustments are still there. Depending on how much tweaking support you're planning to add to the SU, this should be removed later, but it's all in the user_patch.ini anyway. Currently it makes the AI more aware and sneaking while standing less silent, which becomes clear in the sneaking silently section in the tutorial mission: pressing Ctrl just isn't enough. I think we'll have to think about how to further refine these things instead of just copying them from the MP.

  7. #82
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    Personally I'd prefer an initial 'purist' edition, with only the levels merged and no additional changes. Also, for beta testing an important part will be to catch anything that behaves (unintendedly) differently from the original map(s). So at least for the beta I'd say use a minimal user_patch.ini.

    Long term I hope the SU will contain everything from Minimalist. Some of it will be in the form of general tweaks, where it makes sense. If everything works out you'll be able to use MP features on top of the original game or the Gold levels - or not, according to preference.

    Version 1.1.3 will at least have a couple of difficulty tweaks, hopefully other tweaks as well because they are long overdue...
    Widescreen and tweaks patches: The Sneaky Upgrade for Thief 3, the Visible Upgrade for Deus Ex 2

  8. #83
    Member
    Registered: May 2009
    Location: Germany
    I'm a bit confused right now.
    The Thief3gold beta contains no map newer than dec 2011.
    Since you haven't been lazy... I wonder : is the the right one? And ready for some overly curious guys (beta testers) to look into?

  9. #84
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    Sure, I worked on it before finishing my FM. There might be some bugs with the Seaside Mansion because of a volume, so if Widow Moira doesn't say anything or doesn't react to the wine side-quest, I'll have another look. Otherwise only the Castle and Museum maps make problems and are not included because of that. Enjoy the rest of it; you can always get rid of the extra tweaks by cleaning them from the user_patch.ini file.

  10. #85
    Member
    Registered: May 2009
    Location: Germany
    Sorry, but I won't get around to play/test this any time soon.
    I thought it would be just the city-map....
    But this is the entire game with loading zones removed?

  11. #86
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    This is a collection of fixed mission (!) maps for TDS where everything but the Rutherford Castle and Museum mission maps have been combined. So you have to play the entire game until the Museum mission, if you want to test it.

  12. #87
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    Rutherford Castle patrol paths fixed. That was quite a pain because of the rotated original map and lots of patrol markers (probably designed before the patrol system was fully developed, you'd need much less now). I've already fixed one broken volume and will check for some more.

  13. #88
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    That's great! Let us know when it's ready for beta testing.

    Do you know by now how the Museum map is doing on the property storage front? Hopefully it's not worse off than the Cradle?
    Widescreen and tweaks patches: The Sneaky Upgrade for Thief 3, the Visible Upgrade for Deus Ex 2

  14. #89
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    Total used: ~38,000
    Used but freed: 1100

    That sounds promising, even if I have to decorate another corridor. I'll see what I can do this week before going to a conference next Sunday.

  15. #90
    bikerdude
    Guest
    have you guys got a download of the current work to date..?

  16. #91
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    We do have an older one, but I'd like to fix a few things and get the remaining two maps ready before calling out a beta phase, especially since the second map isn't complete yet. This would require everyone to play it now and then again later when it's done.

  17. #92
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    I don't want to promise too much, but Wieldstrom Museum has a new shiny corridor and stays beneath the assumed property limit (i.e. < 40,000) when built. I hope another guard won't crash it.

    Edit: Looks like it works, with maybe some very minor detail the Museum can be considered finished.
    Last edited by Beleg Cúthalion; 19th Oct 2013 at 17:21.

  18. #93
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Beleg Cúthalion View Post
    saving names (LevelEnterText in Misc.sch) could be changed to the actual mission title or a shorter version (Bloodline, Cradle etc.)
    That would definitely be a good idea. Savegames are not (always) compatible between the original and Gold versions, so it's useful to be able to tell them apart.

    Copying in the mission titles from MapRooms.sch as you suggest is what I ended up doing during testing, after a few crashes. The upside of that solution is that the translations are already done... The downside is that they're maybe a bit long and cryptic.

    It seems that the savegames are generally named after the location you're in, so maybe just use that - perhaps adding a "Gold" prefix to make it completely clear: "Gold: Blue Heron Inn", "Gold: Shalebridge Cradle" etc?
    Widescreen and tweaks patches: The Sneaky Upgrade for Thief 3, the Visible Upgrade for Deus Ex 2

  19. #94
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    I would leave out the Gold comment, especially if space is an issue, but also since we don't have to support the original maps IMHO. Or have you notuced that some older savegames work with the new maps? Looking at the original titles, location names would be good. In this case we'd have:

    Blue Heron Inn
    Rutherford Castle
    Pagan Sanctuary
    St Edgar's Church
    Seaside Mansion
    Kurshok Citadel
    Clocktower
    Keeper Compound (as opposed to Keeper Library)
    Shalebridge Cradle
    Wieldstrom Museum

    Does that work or are they too long already? For shortened titles I'd suggest:

    Checking In
    End of a Bloodline
    St. Edgar's Eve
    Pagan Sanctuary
    Widow Moira
    Sunken Citadel
    Killing Time
    Brethren and Betrayer
    Robbing the Cradle
    Still Life

    Not really satisfying.

  20. #95
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    Both those lists would do, I'd prefer the first one. Old saves may occasionally work, but more importantly some people will probably use existing city hub saves as starting points for playing individual Gold levels so the saves end up in the same savegames folder. But they're sorted by time, so adding "Gold" is probably overkill.
    Widescreen and tweaks patches: The Sneaky Upgrade for Thief 3, the Visible Upgrade for Deus Ex 2

  21. #96
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    I still have something in mind with the City sections.

  22. #97
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    That's cool, but you'd better rename city maps with changes too.

    Can you give us a hint what you have in mind for the City?
    Widescreen and tweaks patches: The Sneaky Upgrade for Thief 3, the Visible Upgrade for Deus Ex 2

  23. #98
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    After some talking with snobel about the difficulty settings for the City sections and the Inn, we had the idea of allowing the choice of the difficulty level for the tutorial mission as well, which is not possible in vanilla TDS. When I first thought that this might be a chance to kick the blue footprints into the EASY mode without deleting them, I had not seen the mass of scripts yet which this mission has to keep track of not only footprints and readable prompts but also the multiple restart/try-again scenarios. Re-working these to play only on the lowest difficulty level is an hour-long script re-writing session and I wanted to ask those three guys who visit this sub-forum if this was wished for in the first place. One could turn the Inn mission into a proper thing but it's a lot of work to exclude the tutorial stuff without really deleting it. What do you think?

  24. #99
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    If it's too complex to preserve it on Easy then I'd say remove the tutorial elements completely on all levels. Newcomers can still play through the original Inn if they want, before switching to Gold.
    Widescreen and tweaks patches: The Sneaky Upgrade for Thief 3, the Visible Upgrade for Deus Ex 2

  25. #100
    Member
    Registered: May 2009
    Location: Germany
    I do not have a very strong opinion on that topic, so whatever you decide to do is fine with me.
    And snobles suggestion makes sense to me as well.

    Just to add another option:
    I noticed that there are 3 types of blueish hints:
    regular footsteps, circled footsteps and an arrow pointing at interesting items/spots.

    From what I saw, only the circled footsteps seem to be tracked by the game.
    So, I guess one might remove all those regular footsteps and the arrows without changing the gameplay in any way ?

    On another note:
    Would it be possible to display the hints that are given when you reach a circled footstep like regular text on the screen instead of showing that info dialog ? That modal dialog, indeed, feels pretty annoying on every replay.

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