Stealing Sound: Generative Music in Thief

[clearing]

- In 'Stealing Sound: Generative Music in Thief', Eidos Montreal's Paul Weir will make the first public presentation regarding the upcoming fourth iteration in the noted stealth franchise, based around the fact that "innovative audio has been at the heart of the original Thief titles".

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/3...hief_Talks.php
http://schedule.gdconf.com/session/12242

[Briareos H]

Innovative audio has been at the heart of the THIEF titles and Eidos Montreals new THIEF is no exception, this presentation will mark the first time that the game has been spoken about publicly. This talk will argue for the benefits of using generative music in games and will present a theoretical framework for its justification. Developers should more enthusiastically embrace alternative music models to resolve ongoing issues with linearity and to create a musical aesthetic that pushes away from the shadow of film. I will show our custom generative system (GRAMPS), demonstrate its key design features and suggest some best practice techniques. Ill also discuss how using a single person as the composer, sound designer and audio director on a AAA title can help create a unified sound field, blurring the lines between sound design and music.
TAKEAWAY:
- The benefits of using a live generative music system over pre-rendered music from both a practical production perspective and for enhancing the user experience.
- A music theory approach as to why generative music can solve some issues regarding music, structure and its relationship with time.
- A challenge to composers to explore alternative composition models.
- The first public insight into Thief and its generative music engine.

Now there's something interesting. Is iMUSE back?

[van HellSing]

Sounds very promising and... LGS-like?

[Ostriig]

Well, colour me interested. I'll be looking forward to this talk.

[d'Spair]

That sounds like a very right and appropriate topic to embark on. Nice.

[clearing]

I found a book Game Sound Technology and Player Interaction: Concepts and Developments by Mark Grimshaw.

...further in consultancy for the Thief title with audio director Paul Weir.

page 333

[Briareos H]

That book looks like an excellent read. I'd buy it if it wasn't as insanely expensive as any other specialised book. I guess google books will do.

[snowcap21]

I have only a vague idea what generative music could mean in a game, but I'm excited, because it indicates that they really want to bring something new, while trying to go for the mood of the (first) games.

[SubJeff]

I'm excited because it looks like they are taking the sound seriously. I don't think many people realise how important sound can be or how important sound was to the Thief series.

[Beleg Cúthalion]

I never thought I'd throw in the usual negative and pessimistic comment, but also TDS won an award for its surround (?) sound design.

[jtr7]

Why is that negative? It was based on the older titles' use of sound anyway, and because of that, it was different enough from the rest of gaming in Thief's special way, to earn an award, while leaning toward a cinematic score like everyone else.

[SubJeff]

It's negative because it reminds us that even if they are committed to good sound that is no guarantee the game will be good and Thief 3 is a case in point.

[jtr7]

Heh. I'm too used to Beleg defending TDS, and we've quite covered what we hope to hear and what would be unacceptable, so your point didn't occur to me. Yeah, it's the given fear we have anyway. TDS had too much Alex Brandon, Mark Lampert, and Todd Simmons, and no Kemal Amarasingham or Ramin Djawadi, who were key. Eric Brosius was contracted-out from Harmonix and had come to believe the soundtrack should be felt rather than heard, as with cinema, ignoring how Thief and System Shock are celebrated without that sensibility, and well-appreciated for qualities that stand out, not hide.

[Bakerman]

It's negative because it reminds us that even if they are committed to good sound that is no guarantee the game will be good and Thief 3 is a case in point.

But wait, just because the game won an award for sound, doesn't mean the team thought that their sound design was awesome, revolutionary, and Thief. It means other people heard it and thought 'well, that's better than anything else out there this year'.

Of course, if the team did say they were really committed to their sound design, then I take it back.

[SubJeff]

Ha ha, you're quite right.

I've got my fingers crossed and I'm hopeful. Manly because the Deus Ex:HR videos/trailers look like they've got Deus Ex 1 down. On that basis I'm hoping they same thing will be true of Thief.

[Beleg Cúthalion]

Oh I just threw it in for info... I don't even remember the exact thing. But thanks to a new audio card and EAX 4 I'll be able to check TDS in 5.1 with multiple EAX effect layers (well...two if I'm not mistaken).

Looking forward to CRAMPS.

[Pyrian]

Hmm. Personally recall the sound of the Cradle as being creepy as hell.

[jtr7]

Yes. The Cradle. Always with The Cradle. Not the rest of the game--well...this'n and that'n, too. One or two isn't enough.

It followed the cinematic formula, of whispers, back-masking, crackles, atonal strings, etc., so it was a sure win.



In other news, here's a GDC homepage banner fail:

[Boxsmith]

What's this? Positive reactions?

It's good to see we're not all a bunch of reactionary pessimistic fucks after all.

EDIT: holycrap jtr7, is that a small screenshot I see?

[jtr7]

It's a small piece of a screenshot, heh T3 concept art.


Yeah, we're fine when people aren't blowing smoke and hype or making promises we find they didn't keep, etc. Paul hasn't made claims we can pop holes in yet, and we're happy SOMEone's talked with us.

[clearing]

EDIT: holycrap jtr7, is that a small screenshot I see?

It's a small piece of a screenshot, heh.

http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126351

[jtr7]

Yeah, sorry. I wasn't even thinking about Sergio's little T3 concept art, but the GDC website. I haven't been sleeping right.

[Boxsmith]

auuugh what a letdown

[jtr7]

Just tell yourself it will be a long ass time before you see anything important or meaningful.

[Captain Spandex]

Sounds promising.

Didn't realize you guys had this big a problem with Thief 3's audio, of all things. The only big difference I noted in DS was that the music seemed more 'thematic', and like jtr said... 'cinematic'. Whereas TDP and TMA seemed more ambient and expressive, yes... 'generative'. (is that a new buzz-word?).