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Thread: TFix: unofficial patch for Thief1/Gold

  1. #2951
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2004
    Location: Germany
    Some problems around that "character_detail 0" thing certainly do exist. I also had that in cam.cfg some weeks ago, and likewise couldn't figure out which mission or other incident caused it, although I have a strong suspicion about one mission. It's like Corona - sometimes, you just can't identify patient zero anymore if enough time has passed. That's what my last post was about: I just can't explain why Unkillable Cat's game setup has such a problem while mine has not.

    Concerning the "Zombies ate my Hammerite" problem you described: While I did not observe exactly what you described so far, I know of similar situations. If an AI cannot understand who or what is causing the damage, the AI will likely do stupid things. (And I like to watch that AI die, then.)

    For example, if a rather fast zombie or other undead approaches an archer face-to-face, the archer may ready an arrow and draw his bow, but then decide that the enemy is already too close. The archer will then put away the arrow again, walk some steps back, and then the sequence repeats. This may happen over and over again, until the enemy manages to successfully strike the archer, e.g. once the retreating archer's back hits a wall. Once the archer has taken enough damage to be motivated to flee, he will either do that and escape, or already be cornered too well and die from the ongoing enemy's attacks.

    Similar examples of guard stupidity and Hammerite idiocy may occur when for some reason the attacker cannot see who is attacking him. Then there's the wondrous effect of fires on a human's skin, which the AIs often have no knowledge of, and so Garrett can lure an AI into a campfire ever and ever again until the AI is roasted well enough to either flee or perish.

    Whether any of these problems are worth the hassle of fixing them as well as risking new problems because of changed AI behaviour, I cannot say. If these problems existed already at the dawn of time - in this case that's 1998, when Thief was first sold -, then I would be rather inclined to not do anything about it, since it might break other fragile setups some authors might have cleverly created at a time when they did work. "character_detail 0" all over again...

  2. #2952
    For the past three weeks I've been playing various T1/TG FMs, just to see if I can catch another FM doing something similar.

    I'll admit that in some cases there were some strange skins present, but at least they were 'properly' applied. I've found two examples of this: "Returning a Favor" has some of the Hammerites look like Haunts (the first Hammerite, in particular) and "Sepulchre of the Sinistral" has some of the zombies look like that green aquatic creature whose skin is in the game files, but was never used.

    I also faintly recall "Bloodstone Prison" having a similar problem due to how many custom skins it uses, but I haven't gotten around to that one yet.

    EDIT: Had a look at "Bloodstone Prison", it has the same problems. Lots of human-looking critters about in a prison long abandoned and overrun by the Undead.
    Last edited by Unkillable Cat; 19th Jun 2021 at 03:38.

  3. #2953
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    yeah, some FMs are a horrifying mess, as far as the resource structure is concerned. not much can be done here, apart from the usual "try it with TFix lite".

  4. #2954
    Another problem came up, but I figured I'd check here first to see whether it's my installation, or the FM itself.

    Haplo's "Darkness Walk With Us" has a segment where a pedestal is to be weighed down with a piece of rubble so that a door opens... except it doesn't do that for me, the pedestal just remains still.

  5. #2955
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2018
    Quote Originally Posted by Unkillable Cat View Post
    Another problem came up, but I figured I'd check here first to see whether it's my installation, or the FM itself.

    Haplo's "Darkness Walk With Us" has a segment where a pedestal is to be weighed down with a piece of rubble so that a door opens... except it doesn't do that for me, the pedestal just remains still.
    Did you tried to weight pedestal with more objects? Sometimes one piece of rubble isn't enough.

  6. #2956
    Quote Originally Posted by Galaer View Post
    Did you tried to weight pedestal with more objects? Sometimes one piece of rubble isn't enough.
    Yeah, I jumped up on the pedestal myself after having dropped the rubble, and nothing happened.

    For comparison, check FenPhoenix's video and see that only a single piece of rubble should be needed.

  7. #2957
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    remember, if you are running the game with fps unlocked the physics stuff may not work properly.

  8. #2958
    Just to be absolutely certain, you're referring to the "software based framerate limiter"-entry in cam_ext_cfg?

    If so, then for some reason that was set at 140, I changed it back to 100 but that didn't change anything in-game. I can't see any other setting in the config file that I've messed with. Not on this current installation, or a backup-installation from ~3 years ago.

    But this would explain why a certain pressure plate in "The Tomb of St. Tennor" didn't trigger when I stepped on it, but pressure plates worked fine in "Lord Robert's Painting". BRB, gotta check something...

    EDIT: Wrong FM. Corrected.

    Update: Checked my theory, physics are also broken in "Lord Robert's Painting" (the pressure plates in the Keeper hideout don't go down, but they do trigger the traps) meaning the problem is not with the FM, but my installation... and this despite me having re-installed Thief 1 roughly a month ago.

    I wonder what I broke this time...
    Last edited by Unkillable Cat; 28th Jun 2021 at 04:50.

  9. #2959
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2018
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Check the 'phys_freq x' line in your cam_ext.cfg. If it's uncommented and has anything above 60, that's probably the culprit. A few things break above that up to 100, and a lot more breaks above that.

  10. #2960
    Quote Originally Posted by DirkBogan View Post
    Check the 'phys_freq x' line in your cam_ext.cfg. If it's uncommented and has anything above 60, that's probably the culprit. A few things break above that up to 100, and a lot more breaks above that.
    It was commented, so I removed the ; ... and now it works!

    *slaps forehead*

    I went through the file at least three times yesterday, and missed that one.

    Thanks to everyone who lent a hand in stomping out this problem.
    Last edited by Unkillable Cat; 29th Jun 2021 at 13:25.

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