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Thread: TFix: unofficial patch for Thief1/Gold

  1. #326
    One other thing, earlier in this thread there was discussion about some lines and/or conversations not taking place. I would like to know more about this.

    In Lord Bafford's Manor, there are three servants who just stand there and do nothing, at least on Expert. On lower difficulty levels they seem to say something, correct?

    Garrett also says fewer things on higher difficulty levels, gives out fewer hints and such.

    Now my memory may be failing me, but I remember Garrett saying the line "You know you really can't take it with you... but I can" somewhere in the "Down in the Bonehoard" level while looting. I played through it, and never heard him speak that line. Am I mistaken? Does he speak it somewhere else?

    Someone must have compiled a list of Garrett's lines and where and when he speaks them. Wouldn't surprise me if it can be found on this forum in dusty threads. Can anyone help me?

  2. #327
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Thief fan since ca. 1999
    Unless memory fails me, I've played Bafford's so many times that the only conversation that I think you may be referring to is the two servants in the basement. (Three servants? I don't recall there being three having a conversation.) I think it's a matter of getting there in time to hear it, as that conversation always worked. Then again, I don't know if it plays in all three difficulties, but I don't see why not. The only issue it did have was that the male servant would sort of cut off the female servant with his next line: "wouldn't New Market love that."

  3. #328
    jtr7
    Guest
    1. The servants are in the upstairs servants' quarters on the level with the kitchen and servant. The servant walking on the street enters through the front gate and proceeds upstairs to join the two standing there, unless his path is interrupted, of course, so there may be two or three once the player gets there. The servants don't seem to have their conversation unless the player takes a specific path first, and yeah, their lines overlap oddly, rather than play out fully one after the other. I'm not versed enough in DromEd to trace the variables, like control object 211. I started the mission in the nearby quarters with the sleeping servant on the bed, and walked over to the other two, and they didn't speak. I went through the kitchen and back and then they spoke, so I'm not sure where I triggered it.

    I have all the conversations per mission in general listed out, and all of Garrett's comments, but I never finished pinning Garrett's comments down to location and difficulty level and what triggers them, and I only have determined which conversations are used or not. Garrett has a lot of comments he never says, and there are a total of 70 conversations (including a lot of two-liners) never used in the Dark Engine Thiefs. TMA has broken conversations and a lot of unused readables. There's one mission that relocates conversations according to difficulty, while most are unaffected by difficulty entirely, and some are switched on or off per difficulty.

    TDP/Gold has a few conversations that are only triggered according to the player's path, and all the games have conversations and comments that can be switched off or on according to player actions.


    2. There is, indeed, a comment whose filename denotes use in the Bonehoard, mission 4, garm0405: "Whoa! You know you can't take it with you... But I can."

    I'll see if I can find out where it plays, if it does, but yeah, it exists in the game files and it was meant for the Bonehoard. The way he says it, somewhat surprised, I wonder if it follows after he's done something impressive or something impressive has happened, like being teleported after getting the Mystic's Heart and escaping behind the pedestal, or upon leaving the Bonehoard with the Horn of Quintus on Expert, but I can't find it, yet. I can confidently state that he can't say it without preceding player action, since there is no trigger connected to just being somewhere.


    Oh, and I've checked both TDP and Gold versions.
    Last edited by jtr7; 28th Nov 2012 at 21:52.

  4. #329
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2003
    Location: Finland
    I think that's the line Garrett speaks in Bonehoard after acquiring the Bow Upgrade.. - which is not an easy thing to do. Also explains why those words have been heard by only a few taffers..

  5. #330
    jtr7
    Guest

  6. #331
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2009
    Location: The Spiraling Sea
    ...

  7. #332

    IIRC, he speaks the Bonehoard line after grabbing the loot in the Marad family crypt.

    Thanks for the info guys!

  8. #333
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Thief fan since ca. 1999
    @jtr7: Ah yes, Nomad Larry (that's what a friend and I used to call him) I forgot all about him. Though he's not part of the conversation and I was thinking of just the servants as they are before he arrives.

    Isn't it possible to get to the basement before he even arrives though? I seem to remember that everytime I go through the well and into the servant's quarters that he's never there. (Which would partially explain why I forget the third servant exists.)

  9. #334
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Texas
    I mentioned that conversation in the basement. And yes you can get there before he arrives. In fact the only time he was there before me was the 1.19 replay on hard. I take the same route through the well everytime.

    Also anyone ever figure out the wizards tower mystery? You know in the fire tower where you have to pick that chest and all. Why do the pads change so much faster now from cold to hot? I had to jump on that table to open it. I used to be able to hop back and forth while picking...but no more with 1.19!

  10. #335
    New Member
    Registered: Dec 2009
    Quote Originally Posted by Stingm View Post
    Also anyone ever figure out the wizards tower mystery? You know in the fire tower where you have to pick that chest and all. Why do the pads change so much faster now from cold to hot? I had to jump on that table to open it. I used to be able to hop back and forth while picking...but no more with 1.19!
    Just a thought... Are you using the high resolution timer?

  11. #336
    New Member
    Registered: Nov 2012

    The link

    Is there a working link for the Tfix? I keep getting this 500 Google error.

  12. #337
    Moderator
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: Wales
    It's working fine for me. Perhaps it's a browser thing or maybe it's something to do with google docs enabling/permissions. Anyway, I'm uploading it now for you and will post the link on your visitor page as soon as it's ready.

    Edit. And done.
    Last edited by nickie; 30th Nov 2012 at 13:01.

  13. #338
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Location: Central Texas
    Ok, not sure if this is related to the over sensitive AI I posted about in another thread, and got a fixed Dark.gam file from Voodoo (thanks again BTW.) Now I'm in The Lost City, and am having problems with burricks and fire elementals (the balls of fire that float around,) trying to kill each other all the time. 20 minutes in, havn't attacked a thing, and I have 3 bodies discovered already I never had this problem in any of the previous play throughs

  14. #339
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    as far as I know, they never liked each other too much. how did they react on each other in vanilla thief? remember, we are essentially running T1 levels in the T2 engine, so some slight differences are to be expected.

    ghosting rules should allow this (different factions killing each other) btw.

  15. #340
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Location: Central Texas
    Quote Originally Posted by voodoo47 View Post
    as far as I know, they never liked each other too much. how did they react on each other in vanilla thief? remember, we are essentially running T1 levels in the T2 engine, so some slight differences are to be expected.

    ghosting rules should allow this (different factions killing each other) btw.
    I don't remember them ever attacking each other though. I guess I'm going to install Thief in a second directory and try it vanilla. I have definative memories of camping in a building once trying to get the timing between the fireballs & burricks, and seeing them get fairly close to each other without issue.

    FYI - I'm more about the numbers than ghosting right now. I ghost missions as a challenge to myself, but right now I'm building a save game list and am only interested in the statistics. Maximum loot, all pickable locks picked, all pockets picked, 0 damage dealt, 0 damage taken, 0 bodies discovered, etc... This means that some missions are on different difficulty settings, for example, bonehoard actually gets more loot on expert than normal (though usually it works the other way around.) Once my save game list is built, I can pick any mission and play it on call, without having to dance around with cfg files, or special commands, etc... I have all the loot from the previous mission available as well, though there's nothing saying I have to use all of it Ghosting a mission on expert without buying any extra tools and such can be a real challenge.

  16. #341
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2011
    Location: Montpellier, France
    I'm pretty sure Burricks and Fire Elementals hate eachother, so it's not a surprise they can get into fights. I know for a fact that in vanilla T1 Fire Elementals are hostile to Craymen, but I don't remember exactly about Burricks.

  17. #342
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Location: Central Texas
    Ok, you are correct. They do attack each other in vanilla. But in vanilla it took almost 45 minutes for the timing to be perfect. The Wandering burrick has to be at the end of his patrol at the same time one or both of the elementals is at their closest position. In 1.19, they don't have to be quite that close it seems, maybe their "view" area (one or the other or both,) are a bit larger? Gonna have my work cut out for me getting in place and doing something to either make sure the burricks win (no bodies with the elementals, or knock the patrolling burrick out so he doesn't trigger the war crap, gotta knock out all 3 with one shot, ick.... This could be rather difficult.

  18. #343
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    the pathing works a bit differently (T1 vs T2), so no surprise there. you can try reprocessing the level, that might make it better.. or worse.

  19. #344
    jtr7
    Guest
    Burricks get along with spiders, but not undead or fire elementals. After Haunted Cathedral introduces the mechanic of getting creatures to fight for you, if you purchase the page torn from the Journals of Morgan--burricks vs. zombies--we can then see the concept applied in Lost City, burricks vs. fire elementals. And in the Maw, we have fire elementals vs. apebeasts, and bugbeasts are immune to fire but not the explosion of a fire arrow nearby.

  20. #345
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2011
    Location: Montpellier, France
    I think there is an explanation for this, Pheonix. When you are at a certain distance, some AIs get frozen in place in order to reduce the amount of work your computer has to do to process them. I'm sure you have encountered floating guards at the end of a very long hallway once (this happened pretty often in Song of the Caverns). This is called Efficiency. In 1.19, this Efficiency setting is overwritten and deleted, so an AI that is far away from you is not frozen anymore in this version. I just saw that while tinkering with an FM. Previously I had to set that Efficiency setting to false if I wanted my AIs to be able to move around even if I was way above them or far away from them, but in 1.19 I don't even need to do that anymore.

    I can still be wrong, but this seems plausible.

  21. #346
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Texas
    Oon Kuka Oon
    Just a thought... Are you using the high resolution timer? .
    No I don't even know what an hd timer is. Its an old p41.5 with a radion 7500!

    Any other ideas?

  22. #347
    New Member
    Registered: Dec 2009
    Quote Originally Posted by Stingm View Post
    No I don't even know what an hd timer is. Its an old p41.5 with a radion 7500!

    Any other ideas?
    It has nothing to do with graphics actually. It's just for measuring time. I read somewhere that the old timer Thief uses may be a bit unreliable these days with the multicore CPUs. This patch offers a newer timing system that can be enabled in cam_ext.cfg. Search for use_hi_res_timer.

  23. #348
    jtr7
    Guest
    For a good six years or so, various taffers have noticed their games' clocks sped up, like whirling inventory or store items, and faster movements and animations of AI or Garrett, and sometimes screwed-up spoken lines.

  24. #349
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Location: Central Texas
    Skacky, you may be right about that. I cannot seem to get there fast enough to arrange things to my liking , It looks like it might be a case of just restarting the mission over and over untill I can get there before the big blow up, or I get lucky and the burricks win. I did notice in the vanilla game, that if I alerted the 3 burricks and had them wanter into the square while the elementals were over the lava on the other side, they always seemed to win (their breath puts out the fires.) But I think it may take all 3 breathing at once to do it.

    If I was better at it, it would actually be tempting to shorten the patrol route of the one burrick so he doesn't wander into kill range... But I guess that would be cheating

  25. #350
    Quote Originally Posted by skacky View Post
    I think there is an explanation for this, Pheonix. When you are at a certain distance, some AIs get frozen in place in order to reduce the amount of work your computer has to do to process them. I'm sure you have encountered floating guards at the end of a very long hallway once (this happened pretty often in Song of the Caverns). This is called Efficiency. In 1.19, this Efficiency setting is overwritten and deleted, so an AI that is far away from you is not frozen anymore in this version.
    I noticed this as well, and welcomed it as it makes sense. However, there is one case where the old behavior still seems to be the case, and that is in the Mages Towers. The guards patrolling the upper walkways between the elemental towers and the main central tower only start their patrols once you open the door in the passageway.

    Also, it seems that certain AI will react due to your proximity REGARDLESS of any other circumstance. Sleeping AI, for example, will ALWAYS wake up if you get too close. If you're fast enough you can still knock them out, but no amount of darkness or silence will keep them asleep if you get too close. Then there's the Burrick in the Lost City who always peeked around a corner whenever I got too close, regardless of how stealthily I moved. The AI in Thief 1 is acting a lot differentely than in Thief 2, that's for certain.

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