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Thread: TFix: unofficial patch for Thief1/Gold

  1. #351
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Texas
    On Kuka Oon
    It has nothing to do with graphics actually. It's just for measuring time. I read somewhere that the old timer Thief uses may be a bit unreliable these days with the multicore CPUs. This patch offers a newer timing system that can be enabled in cam_ext.cfg. Search for use_hi_res_timer.

    My computer isn't a multi core that I have thief on. But I did just get a new laptop that is. I plan to install the thief series on it with the help of ttlg. So thanks for that tip.

  2. #352
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Location: Central Texas
    Ok, sorry to say I've come across another issue I've finished off T1 and have the new save game files nicely packed away Now working on TG, and am at Thieves' Guild. Top level, ok, entered casino and everything's fine until I'm ready to get the pouch behind the sword thief at the roullette tables. Tried it again with vanilla to make sure I remembered correctly. What I did on vanilla that worked is I carefull dropped a crate straight down while crouched right next to the window to the sword thief's left. Shot a moss arrow on the metal looking edge of the window, then jumped straight up (this puts me on top of the crate.) At this point I can croutch down and edge forward onto the ledge which gets me just close enough to lean forward and grap the pouch. In vanilla, when I put the crate down and/or when I jump straight up onto it, I sometimes get a minor alert from the guard (did I hear something? or some such.) In 1.19 I get a major alert from the sword guard, both civilians, and the patrolling arrow guard. The civillians run off screaming, "Help, Help Guards, he's got a bow," etc... The guards are yelling about how they saw Garrett, and are walking around searching for me. So, I decide to put up with it. Wait a while and they all eventually settle back down (saved it at this point.) Then I start to edge foward, still have a black gem, and suddenly the guard yells "Stop right there" and imediately starts attacking me. Ok, reload my save, going to give it even more time. Sitting there, everything calm (the legde is mossed BTW,) I step outside, smoke a couple of ciggarettes while I read my book (about half an hour,) come back and still calm. Creep forward just a hair and "Stop right there," with a swinging sword. Try again, this time watch TV for an hour, come back and same thing.....

    Um, is this a dark.gam thing again, or is there something up with that mission? I've tried laying moss down on floor then ledge, and they still major alert when I carefully set the crate down. I've tried setting the crate down a little ways away and pushing it into place, and they alert as soon as I bump the crate close to the window. All of this with moss on floor, ledge, even shot a moss arrow on top of the box (though no moss showed up on it, of course,) just to be safe. I don't want to play the, alert everyone, run in snatch & run away game if I can get out of it. BTW - Vanilla, could do it on expert, 1.19 fails even on normal.

  3. #353
    I noticed the exact same thing with the new patch, AI, especially in this particular mission, are super incredibly sensitive. Even creeping alerts everyone. I just gave up on this mission when replaying Thief Gold.

  4. #354
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Location: Central Texas
    Quote Originally Posted by AluminumHaste View Post
    I noticed the exact same thing with the new patch, AI, especially in this particular mission, are super incredibly sensitive. Even creeping alerts everyone. I just gave up on this mission when replaying Thief Gold.
    Well, it's going to make what I do a little difficult. I'm already dreading The Lost City (again.) Getting in place fast enought to make sure the burrick v elemental war results in 0 bodies discovered is a pain in the .... neck. In T1, that was my only sticking point, though the eles in other areas of that mission seemed to be a little jumpier than I remembered, I managed to get through ok. That one pouch is really going to bother me . I'm taking a break right now, hoping it's a "bug" that can be "fixed." After a day or two, I'll probably break down and do a snatch & run for it. FYI - I have save game packs for every version of Thief available to me (not counting T3, gave up when the enforcers showed up, litterally impossible to get perfect stats at that point and the files are just too huge.) If you are curious, my save game packs are extremely small the zip files are around 20k (that isn't a typo, that's k not m,) because I save the games at the end of the mission, when all that is saved is position & stats, not the entire level. I have 1.07, 1.33, & 1.19 (renamed for my convience to 1.39,) for T1; 1.37 for TG (working on 1.39 1.14 & 1.18 for T2 (will be working on 1.19 later.) I would have even more versions set up but those are the only ones I have.

    Have a wierd version of a Thief 1 or 2 game? Mail me the CD(s) and I'll build even more then mail you the CD(s) back. Since I know the games so well, unless my "english" windows would cause a problem, I'll even build packs for other languages, though getting the level names right in the save game list would be problematicle (sp??) I guess I could just list the mission number and let you fill in the names later

  5. #355
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    as I said before, we are running T1 levels in the T2 engine here - to get exactly the same behavior is nearly impossible.. but in this case, re-enabling AI efficiency on the burricks may do the trick.try extracting the dml in your root folder (you will have to restart the level): https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B7q...y1YbHRqX0NSU1E

    see if things get better or worse.
    Last edited by voodoo47; 4th Dec 2012 at 06:10.

  6. #356
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Location: Central Texas
    Quote Originally Posted by voodoo47 View Post
    as I said before, we are running T1 levels in the T2 engine here - to get exactly the same behavior is nearly impossible.. but in this case, re-enabling AI efficiency on the burricks may do the trick.try extracting the dml in your root folder (you will have to restart the level): https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B7q...y1YbHRqX0NSU1E

    see if things get better or worse.
    I'm not so much worried about The Lost City any more, that just takes a bit of patience and rushing a bit to get in place, hopefully before the elementals & burrick get too close. The new dml file actually made things worse just FYI. My concern now is with how sensitive the AI's in Thieves' Guild are. Well, at least those 3 by the roulette wheels. I've tried everything I can think of... I guess I'm just going to have to resort to snatch & run....

  7. #357
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Location: Central Texas
    Ok, managed to get the pouch without too much difficulty after all. Cost me a broadhead arrow, a moss arrow, and a couple of retries. In case anyone is curious, this is how I had to do it.

    1) Put a moss arrow down outside the window, otherwise they clue into the sound when trying to get onto the crate (even with the new mantle, it usually takes a couple of tries to get it right. It didn't seem to matter how far away they moved, stepping off the crate (sometime when jumping onto the crate or mantleing on, I end up unable to crouch until I get off and back on,) they would imediately move their search area & attention to where I was, and that would ruin everything.

    2) set a crate down nearby so I can grab it quickly and get into position while they are still away.

    3) Fire a broadhead arrow into the frame of the far window (the stone wall is too far away to catch everyone's attention.) Note, I don't know for sure how others do it, but I list 4 levels of alert: They hear/see something but dismiss it imediately (did I hear something? No must have been the wind I guess,) they hear/see something and look around for it for a while but are not sure what they heard/saw, they hear/see Garrett know what they heard/saw but currently don't know where Garrett is, and They hear/see Garrett, and still know exactly where Garrett is. This steps only puts them to the second level of alert.

    4) grab the crate and move the the edge of the window. I still set it down carefully, otherwise they again refocus their attention to me.

    5) I then jump or mantle onto the box. This is the step that takes several retries, usually, I save it just before step 3 because sometimes their alert level drops before I can finish because of the time it takes to get onto the crate properly. I usually start with a straight up jump. This will sometimes work and sometimes not work. If I cannot crouch while on the box, I have to step off, and try mantling on next. My next try is usually a walking jump onto the box. Then back to mantle, etc.... Until I can crouch down.

    6) Wait till everyone is out of pocket, and cannot see this area (here is where I sometimes have to reload, because they either never move off enough, or come back too soon. Then I edge forward until I can lean forward and grap the pouch. If I move to far and fall off the ledge of the window, I have to reload and start over. Then I back out off the ledge and box, and I follow the shadows to the nearby non-roullette table get on it and hide in that shadow (being on the table makes it less likely one of the searchers bump into me.)

    7) I then wait for everything to settle down, then move back to the window to pick the key off the sword thief's pocket. I left it on till now so that he could leave the small room and not be able to spot me while I'm visible grabbing the pouch. Here is one point that caused me to do an extra reload, he sometimes returns to his post too far away for me to get the key

    So, I'm now past that point in the mission, though I still think there is something with that area or those AIs that needs to be fixed. As I said, in vanilla I could do all this without raising anyone beyound alert 1. Even the guy at the table facing the guard only saw me for a brief moment (as I leaned forward to snatch the pouch,) and his view was mostly blocked by the guard.

    Ok, onward, I'll report in next time I come across something that seems off

    p.s. Voodoo - I'm not so worried about the burricks -v- elementals. I believe I mentioned that they attack each other in vanilla, they just do it a lot quicker in 1.19. That may be partially do to the fact that they are actually moving & patrolling from the very beginning instead of only when I'm in range. I do think that the notice range of one or the other is also larger as well, though. This may be because of the Thief 2 engine (too bad the awesome person or persons that did 1.19 cannot or will not do the same with the first engine as well - though they may actually be working on it,) so I'm not too worried about that either. I just have to be ready to re-start the mission and concentrate on getting there as fast as possible to try and control the conflict. So, move quickly, skip all the loot & items (except the stuff hidden behind the wall near the water in the city - which I cannot go back for,) and get there ASAP to try and control the conflict.

  8. #358
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    I do believe it should be fairly easy to make them behave the old way, but that would require someone who knows his way around dromed well. and that ain't me, at least for now.

    pushing it on my "to do when school is over" list.

  9. #359
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Location: Central Texas
    Ok, next issue. I didn't notice this happening in T1, But in TG AIs will sometimes stop after a reload. They are supposed to be walking a circuit (sometimes fixed, sometimes random,) and after I reload a saved game, they will just stop where they are and not move again. If I make a noise, they'll walk around a bit looking for me, but when they settle down, they just stay at their new location. I haven't been able to figure out any sort of pattern for it. I'm not even sure if the problem existed in a vanilla install or not. It wasn't bad enough to be noticeable if so. I do know that there have been occasions when the freeze made things near impossible, and times when it made things absurdly easy as well.

  10. #360
    jtr7
    Guest
    That's new to me.

  11. #361
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    providing a save file with the broken AI would be a good start.

  12. #362
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Location: Central Texas
    Quote Originally Posted by voodoo47 View Post
    providing a save file with the broken AI would be a good start.
    Ok, a quick save of a burrick in "The Haunted Cathedral" that froze up is here. If you load into the save game, you'll be looking right at it. I'm not in a good place to be watching from (not hidden, and the other 2 burricks will path right over you if you give them time,) I just wanted to make sure it was clear as to which AI I know is frozen at this time. I've really only noticed this happening on "The Haunted Cathedral" and "The Mage Towers" so far. It may have happened in other cases, but I haven't noticed it.

  13. #363
    New Member
    Registered: May 2000
    Location: Mequon, WI, USA
    Well I am quite proud of myself. I remembered my 10-12 year old password to the place! They should give you cash prizes for that.

    Anyway, I've been making my 4th or 5th runthrough of TG, this time with TFix and a few extra trimmings for the Christmas season...specifically what's-his-name's improved lava/water textures, the 32-bit shadow mapset (although I only started using it starting around Escape), and the modified DARK.GAM that voodoo47 posted recently.

    I must say that the AI as gotten rather better with the 1.19 adjustments, although its made a couple of segments quite a bit harder (usually when two guards are patrolling together is the worst). But that's not why I am writing.

    I've beaten pretty much the whole game and am in the Maw at the monster spawner portal, and since I'm playing on Expert I've got to take it out before I mess around with the Trickster. Unfortunately a bug has cropped up which makes it impossible to complete the mission on Expert; the portal cannot be shut down. The Earth and Fire nodes (the ones on the right side of the portal) can be wrecked, as normal, but the Air and Water nodes (the ones on the left) are invulnerable, thus making the portal invulnerable and making the mission not possible to resolve.

    I also noted a minor bug (or two) where the monsters in the transportation bubbles are, instead of having their arms and legs spread out like they normally should, are in some sort of extreme fetal position where their limbs are clipping through their body. In addition the bubbles freeze some time, particularly when you reload a save. I had some other issues with AI losing their pathing in the Lost City (burricks in the village) but that I was able to fix that with the use of fire and broadhead arrows.

    Oh yes, a link to my Maw save: here. In front of the portal; additionally you should be able to trigger the broken bubbles from here as well.

    LordHaHa

    EDIT: It never fails. On a hunch, just after this post, I tried different arrows to shut down the portal. Turns out I had mixed up where the Earth and Fire arrows were supposed to go. Well that was stupid.

    But the buggy bubble behavior is still existent, so the save could still be of use. I did note that occasionally I saw a ratbeast properly lined up in a bubble, but the super craymen and bugbeasts tended to be more bugged.
    Last edited by LordHaHa; 9th Dec 2012 at 16:57.

  14. #364
    jtr7
    Guest
    Off-topic: Well, welcome back, taffer! Wow.

  15. #365
    New Member
    Registered: May 2000
    Location: Mequon, WI, USA
    Quote Originally Posted by jtr7 View Post
    Off-topic: Well, welcome back, taffer! Wow.
    Also off-topic: Thanks!

    On-topic: Another Maw bug, which you may see if you play through a bit more. If you reload while the Trickster is activating his elemental anchors, it can break his path like other AI. If that happens, he repeats his activation routine until all the anchors are lit. Nice error correction, but it's without audio the second time around. He *will* go to the Eye when all the anchors are lit up.

    Considering there is an error correction routine here...I dunno, never messed around in DromEd but it might be vanilla, even though I never saw it previously.

    LordHaHa

  16. #366
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Location: Central Texas
    Have some of the missions fixes with TFix included relighting anything? Just finished Song of the Cavern, and I had a problem that I didn't have before (did reinstall vanilla to check.) On the second floor at the front of the building there are 2 nobles facing each other and a guard patrolling from this room through a well lit room (with loud tiles and the exit from the secret room) into another room like this one on the other side and back (note: he has a speed potion on his belt.) The female noble has opera glasses on her belt (loot and pick pocket.) In vanilla, moving slowly (stutter step on the tiles - or using a moss arrow just to be safe,) I can hug the right hand wall till I get behind her and can pick the glasses. Light gem never gets above dim yellow, and the male noble never does more than "huh?". So I can get in and get back out no problem. However, with TFix the light gem now gets up to bright yellow and the male noble sees me cleary and runs for the guard. I had to play lets make a slight noise to get the female searching, then as soon as she settles down, run out on moss and snatch the glasses before she gets back into the light. Took a few tries, but I got the job don (on Escape! now.)

  17. #367
    New Member
    Registered: Dec 2009
    I finished Mage Towers today. There was a few interesting things I noticed.
    First, behind the other secret door in the dungeon there was two crates nothing could open. I didn't try to crack them open though, as I thought I should find a key, but when I returned later they weren't locked at all.
    Also, I didn't notice any speedup in the cycles of the hot metal plates, howewer, they seem to always hurt, unless shot with a water arrow, after which they remain cool for a long time.
    There was also two mages standing still in front of some stairs high up in the Fire Tower, and I doubt that that's what they were supposed to do. I think there was two mages idling in the 2nd floor of the library as well. Seems like they had never started their patrol.

  18. #368
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    yeah, the AI pathing is a victim of the switch into the T2 engine, sometimes, it just doesn't work right. one of the T1 dromeders hinted that reprocessing the level might help.

    same goes for the glitching hotplates, seems like the lighting values need to be tweaked to cope with the new engine. it's on the to do list.

  19. #369
    New Member
    Registered: May 2000
    Location: Mequon, WI, USA
    One thing I can say, having now switched from T1 to T2 due to completion of previous title, is that w/ 1.19 the AI in T1 is much tougher than it is in T2. T2 plays as I remember both games playing without Ultimate Difficulty; I can double blackjack with ease in TMA for example, but in TG one hit instantly ticks off the companion guard. Maybe it is due to differences in T2's lighting model...don't know as I've not messed around in DromEd. The shadows are not as dark in T1 in comparison but that shouldn't affect sight detection if I'm getting a pitch black gem reading. Of course the AI could be going to Alert-2 due to audio pickups, but last I checked in both games the blackjack is equally silent.

    One query; while many of the new models are implemented in TFix presently, I've noticed that there are some T1-applicable texture replacements in the NTEX set included with Tafferpatcher. While the level/gameplay concerns are paramount presently, would there be a possibility of a high-resolution texture solution like NTEX being included in a subsequent revision of TFix?

    LordHaHa

  20. #370
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    it would certainly be possible to create a hires texture pack for T1 from the currently available hires textures, but they would have be picked one by one and modified accordingly. a huge task, and I have much more important things on my to do list.

  21. #371
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Thief fan since ca. 1999
    There's no need anyway, unless he doesn't like Bentraxx's hi-res texture pack for Thief:Gold.

  22. #372
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    I do believe there is need (or demand, if you want) for a hires texture pack that would be as close to the original textures as possible, as seen here. good things come to those who wait (or so I'm told. can't say it ever happened to me).

  23. #373
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Thief fan since ca. 1999
    That's not what I meant. I meant there's no need for you to do it, since there's already texture packs out there.

  24. #374
    New Member
    Registered: May 2000
    Location: Mequon, WI, USA
    Quote Originally Posted by sNeaksieGarrett View Post
    That's not what I meant. I meant there's no need for you to do it, since there's already texture packs out there.
    The pack isn't out yet.

    And it doesn't really scream TDP to me. Effort put into it for sure, but the spirit and styling isn't there.

    LordHaHa

  25. #375
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Thief fan since ca. 1999
    Doesn't matter - the point is there is more than one texture pack out there. That's not the only one. Besides, it will be finished. (Or at least, I'm lead to believe that.)

    Anyway, there's yet another one that looks more in line with Thief's style, although it's for Thief 2 which is off-topic to this thread. And of course, voodoo47 has a lot to worry about without delving into a texture pack, from the looks of it.

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