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Thread: TFix: unofficial patch for Thief1/Gold

  1. #701
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2009
    I am confused, how do I get all the T2 specific features to work with the TFix pack? Such as autoloot bodies and display objective messages? Those are enabled in the menu, but they don't work in-game.

  2. #702
    New Member
    Registered: Oct 2012

    Background Sound

    After the latest patch (TFix_1.17b2)and I did notice this with the previous ttfix patch, the sound works no problem BUT other sounds like drowning or burning the NPC's do NOT make the nice torture sounds: e.g., AHHH... ohh....ouii.. UUUUU....

    Yes quite funny but I miss those sounds. Any ideas? As what my sound settings ought to be?

  3. #703
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    there were no changes to sound in TFix, so if it's not working, you don't have something set up properly on your machine. the default TFix settings (no sound acceleration) should work properly on 99% of machines.
    Quote Originally Posted by Albert View Post
    I am confused, how do I get all the T2 specific features to work with the TFix pack? Such as autoloot bodies and display objective messages? Those are enabled in the menu, but they don't work in-game.
    missed this somehow - you don't, the engine supports the features, but they are not implemented in the osm. similar with fog and weather.

  4. #704
    New Member
    Registered: Oct 2012

    Torture sound

    Quote Originally Posted by voodoo47 View Post
    there were no changes to sound in TFix, so if it's not working, you don't have something set up properly on your machine. the default TFix settings (no sound acceleration) should work properly on 99% of machines.

    missed this somehow - you don't, the engine supports the features, but they are not implemented in the osm. similar with fog and weather.
    So let me get this logic straight: Before patch, torture sounds for NPC's burning or drowning are heard on my Windows 7 64 bit Thief Gold or 2 vanilla install. After patch either this TFIX or Tafferpatcher I don't get those sounds anymore. So it's my machine? Granted all I did was copied, the steam install to a different C:\Games folder, ran it a couple of times to test those NPC sounds (no problems whatsoever), ran the patch, and voila those sounds are no longer heard. No hardware acceleration is enabled. How many sound channels are supposed to be open? EAX disabled?

  5. #705
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Location: Central Texas
    Is there any chance this is a NewDark issue? I have the CDs so I'm not familiar with the Steam (or GOG,) release, are they still using the original engine or ddfix?

  6. #706
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    just tried to attack some guards, the go "ouch/tssch" as usual. describe what exactly are you you doing/trying to do or make a video.

    //I think I know what do you mean - burning in lava/drowning unconscious NPCs. those sounds were removed on purpose, as they've made no sense - when you are blacked out, you won' go "oof" even when someone is murdering you. also, killing unconscious NPCs just to hear the death sounds? maybe you should consider another hobby.

  7. #707
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2004
    voodoo47:

    The T2X patch's cam_ext.cfg should be set up so intro.avi is cropped. It's the only widescreen cutscene T2X has.

    Code:
    crop_movies
    ...
    movie_crop_exclude credits.avi+success.avi+death.avi+B18.avi+b19.avi+B20.avi+B21.AVI+B22.avi+B23.avi+b24.avi+b25.avi+b26.avi+b27.avi+B28.avi+B29.avi+CS18.avi+CS27.avi+CS29.avi+CS30.avi

  8. #708
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2004
    Also, will the final T2X patch include the modifications in Tafferpatcher's patchedmis and patchedres directories? Because those directories don't appear to be referenced in the included Darkinst.cfg or anywhere else.

  9. #709
    New Member
    Registered: Oct 2012

    Taffing sounds

    Quote Originally Posted by voodoo47 View Post
    just tried to attack some guards, the go "ouch/tssch" as usual. describe what exactly are you you doing/trying to do or make a video.

    //I think I know what do you mean - burning in lava/drowning unconscious NPCs. those sounds were removed on purpose, as they've made no sense - when you are blacked out, you won' go "oof" even when someone is murdering you. also, killing unconscious NPCs just to hear the death sounds? maybe you should consider another hobby.
    Now..now.. remember that everyone has different ways of expressing laughter. These are "Thief" sounds not actual, factual murdering sounds. Perhaps someone spent too much time developing a particular patch and decided to remove this artificial man-made sound because it made "no sense". The original creators also included other NPC unconscious sounds like: "Ha! you need to try harder!"., etc. The creators decided to put these in the code for a REASON. These sounds, although comical, also validate a warning. If someone is unconscious and you start beating, burning, drowning, cutting, stabbing, hacking, asphyxiate them it is assured he/she will make some sort of discomfort sound per my MD colleague. Sometimes these sounds give you a clue in this wonderful game...

    To illustrate, if you need or would like to carry an unconscious NPC through water to another location (part of a quest), how would you know that he is drowning or whether that's the ONLY way to take him to another location without dropping him 20 ft below? Another quest is using the unconscious body of a guard as protection from zombies (ok not true but I thought about it). If I guard gives you a helluva run around and you manage to blackjack him in a secluded area but he or she accidentally fell to a remote area where lava & water are present his unconscious sounds will alert the other guards in the vicinity (OR the visual inspection of the unconscious state which is 99% of the time).

    Nothwithstanding a brilliant and comical inclusion of unconscious sounds, the removal of such warnings is not warranted. I didn't decide what was important and what was unnecessary in the development of the original code. But this is a minor issue and the other Tafferpatcher/TFIX improvements far outweigh this "makes no sense" sounds.

  10. #710
    New Member
    Registered: Oct 2012

    More Taffin sounds

    Quote Originally Posted by voodoo47 View Post
    just tried to attack some guards, the go "ouch/tssch" as usual. describe what exactly are you you doing/trying to do or make a video.

    //I think I know what do you mean - burning in lava/drowning unconscious NPCs. those sounds were removed on purpose, as they've made no sense - when you are blacked out, you won' go "oof" even when someone is murdering you. also, killing unconscious NPCs just to hear the death sounds? maybe you should consider another hobby.
    Just basically, knock a guard or a helpless NPC. Put them in fire or water; you will hear nothing. If you carry an unconscious body through the water to another location (escape route for a quest)., the NPC status will turn from "Unconscious" to "Corpse" and there was no way to find out how much time you had (no sound clue & if that was the correct escape route).

  11. #711
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    Basso (the only unconscious quest NPC you need to carry through water) will not drown while being carried now, if memory serves - because "Garret is smart enough to not let his friend drown". other NPCs die silently - as mentioned, somebody screaming while passed out is just ridiculous.

    and yes, LGS have kept the sounds there for a reason - reason like forgetting to do something smarter because of rushed development, most probably. overhaul projects aim to fix such mishaps, even though some people might find them amusing (same goes for flying zombies, rope death bug, bored sounds guards sometimes made while chasing you etc).

    there is a simple rule here - if you don't like the changes, don't use the patcher(s).

  12. #712
    New Member
    Registered: Oct 2012

    Taffin around..

    Quote Originally Posted by voodoo47 View Post
    Basso (the only unconscious quest NPC you need to carry through water) will not drown while being carried now, if memory serves - because "Garret is smart enough to not let his friend drown". other NPCs die silently - as mentioned, somebody screaming while passed out is just ridiculous.

    and yes, LGS have kept the sounds there for a reason - reason like forgetting to do something smarter because of rushed development, most probably. overhaul projects aim to fix such mishaps, even though some people might find them amusing (same goes for flying zombies, rope death bug, bored sounds guards sometimes made while chasing you etc).

    there is a simple rule here - if you don't like the changes, don't use the patcher(s).
    Interesting. LGS parsed approximately 9 different unconscious sounds to the source code because they forgot to do something smarter during a "rushed" development. There is a fine line between realism and just pure laughs from a game standpoint. I saw the development video of Thief and yes while there were some inhouse financial issues, the programmers had ample time to put ridiculous things in the game: e.g, a basketball court in the training room with a note full of programmers quotes (easter egg perhaps?). In any event, I am not a programmer so that said, is there a way to enable that portion of the code? If not, could you pass on the source and I will pass it on to a programmer friend of mine, parse the missing/ridiculous sound snippet code and enable it with your approval? This patch is fantastic; if you could give us a choice of on/off unconscious ridiculous sounds it will make it complete imho.

    There are no rules.. just options.

  13. #713
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2004
    What about the unconscious Hammerite high priest?

  14. #714
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    patched in TG by LGS if memory serves, also patched for T1 if you patch up with 1.17beta - I will double check on this before releasing the next version. will also have a second look at the sounds, maybe adding a last death wheeze/gurgle when the NPc dies, but I don't plan to return to the original ridiculous set of sounds.

    if you are unsatisfied with this, feel free to modify the gamesys as you see fit (it's not like I can stop you). and yes, LGS did a ton of weird stuff, and when overhauling a game, decisions have to be made what to fix and change. and unavoidably, some people will not be happy with those. no way around this.

  15. #715
    New Member
    Registered: Oct 2012

    Boiling Tafferpatcher's knickers...

    Quote Originally Posted by voodoo47 View Post
    patched in TG by LGS if memory serves, also patched for T1 if you patch up with 1.17beta - I will double check on this before releasing the next version. will also have a second look at the sounds, maybe adding a last death wheeze/gurgle when the NPc dies, but I don't plan to return to the original ridiculous set of sounds.

    if you are unsatisfied with this, feel free to modify the gamesys as you see fit (it's not like I can stop you). and yes, LGS did a ton of weird stuff, and when overhauling a game, decisions have to be made what to fix and change. and unavoidably, some people will not be happy with those. no way around this.
    You gone...you gone too far this time! You cama mala-toothpick-winning-malekalo! (sp?)

  16. #716
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    sometimes, I have to force my will upon others, but not to worry, it's for a greater good. always.

    Last edited by voodoo47; 17th Sep 2013 at 02:18.

  17. #717
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Thief fan since ca. 1999
    Quote Originally Posted by hugeyeti View Post
    You gone...you gone too far this time! You cama mala-toothpick-winning-malekalo! (sp?)
    No, actually I believe he says something more like:

    "you camel mannered tunic wearing mollycoddle!"

    Back on topic, I want to throw my opinion into the ring. I think it's one thing to patch what you consider a bug, and another thing to remove something because you personally think it doesn't "make sense." There's a lot of things in this game that you could say are ridiculous, but it is a fantasy world after all.

    However, I guess a good compromise would be what you suggested - i.e. have a final death sound to indicate when they end up finally dying. When I think about it, yes, actually I agree it's unrealistic for an unconscious AI to go "oof," but as hugeyeti pointed out, at the same time it's an audio cue indicating that the AI you intended to be knocked out is being killed by the environment.

    Now granted, it is stupid to drop an AI into a fire for example in the first place, but if the player was intending to not kill anyone in a mission they'd unintentionally kill them without knowing it because you removed the audio cue. At least with the audio cue they'll hear that feedback and know, oh, well I better take the AI out of the fire or he'll become a corpse. That said, I know what you're probably going to say and yes it's a valid counter point: If you weren't wanting to kill anyone then you shouldn't be putting them in fires or carrying them in water in the first place.

    But in the grand scheme of things this is a very minor thing and I'll understand if you don't want to change your patch based on hugeyeti's objections. He could just have it changed himself, or as he said have a friend do it.
    Last edited by sNeaksieGarrett; 16th Sep 2013 at 20:18.

  18. #718
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2009
    Quote Originally Posted by voodoo47 View Post
    you don't, the engine supports the features, but they are not implemented in the osm. similar with fog and weather.
    So basically, you'd have to add this all in yourself. Which is pretty far down the line as TFix features go.

  19. #719
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    modifying the osm is out my league. for now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Infinitron View Post
    Also, will the final T2X patch include the modifications in Tafferpatcher's patchedmis and patchedres directories? Because those directories don't appear to be referenced in the included Darkinst.cfg or anywhere else.
    Quote Originally Posted by Infinitron View Post
    voodoo47:

    The T2X patch's cam_ext.cfg should be set up so intro.avi is cropped. It's the only widescreen cutscene T2X has.

    Code:
    crop_movies
    ...
    movie_crop_exclude credits.avi+success.avi+death.avi+B18.avi+b19.avi+B20.avi+B21.AVI+B22.avi+B23.avi+b24.avi+b25.avi+b26.avi+b27.avi+B28.avi+B29.avi+CS18.avi+CS27.avi+CS29.avi+CS30.avi
    geez, how the heck do I keep missing so many posts.

    1st question: no, because this would break a lot of T2X custom resources. I might go cherry picking stuff that fits, but no promises (last time I've attempted this, the burrick sausage ended up as stretched apples. took me quite a while to write a dml fix that has corrected this).
    2nd question: will have a look at T2X movies, enable crop as necessary and include the cfg in the next release (which will, hopefully, have a proper installer).

  20. #720
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2005
    What is better for TG? Tfix or NewDark?

  21. #721
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2012
    Location: Seattle
    TFix includes NewDark and more, so TFix is all you need.

  22. #722
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by voodoo47 View Post
    1st question: no, because this would break a lot of T2X custom resources.
    Would it? I've actually included them manually and it doesn't seem broken. But I haven't tested it much.

    Also, unless I'm mistaken, the only thing in the patchedmis directory that's actually used by T2X is the modified dark.gam file.

  23. #723
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Infinitron View Post
    Would it? I've actually included them manually and it doesn't seem broken. But I haven't tested it much.

    Also, unless I'm mistaken, the only thing in the patchedmis directory that's actually used by T2X is the modified dark.gam file.
    yes, "seem" is the right word - there is no telling what a custom resource might do unless you run around the entire game and make sure. and there is no way you can do this in a sane timeframe unless you have a bunch of dedicated testers around. a good example would be T2 water - while it looks pretty, it's not as transparent as the orig water, and makes collecting some loot in some missions night impossible. replace a texture with an hires one? well, better make sure it's a perfect hires copy of the original one, else you are going to mess things up someplace surely. and even then you are not completely safe - a lowres window texture might be used as a water grate somewhere - because it's lowres, your brain will identify it as "window" when seen on a building, and as a "grate" when it releases a stream of water into some pool. the hires replacement is (because of being hires) now clearly recognizable as window, that means the water grate will suddenly look wrong/completely out of place.

    there is no easy way around this.

  24. #724
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by voodoo47 View Post
    yes, "seem" is the right word - there is no telling what a custom resource might do unless you run around the entire game and make sure. and there is no way you can do this in a sane timeframe unless you have a bunch of dedicated testers around. a good example would be T2 water - while it looks pretty, it's not as transparent as the orig water, and makes collecting some loot in some missions night impossible. replace a texture with an hires one? well, better make sure it's a perfect hires copy of the original one, else you are going to mess things up someplace surely. and even then you are not completely safe - a lowres window texture might be used as a water grate somewhere - because it's lowres, your brain will identify it as "window" when seen on a building, and as a "grate" when it releases a stream of water into some pool. the hires replacement is (because of being hires) now clearly recognizable as window, that means the water grate will suddenly look wrong/completely out of place.

    there is no easy way around this.
    Well, I would assume that anything that was meant to be a "drop in replacement" for a texture in vanilla Thief 2 would work equally well in T2X. Has vanilla Thief 2 with TafferPatcher been extensively tested? Otherwise, it seems to me that this problem applies equally to both T2 and T2X.

    (Of course, if T2X replaces any T2 texture, then that replacement should take precedence over anything in TafferPatcher. That's a separate issue.)

  25. #725
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2005
    Quote Originally Posted by kdau View Post
    TFix includes NewDark and more, so TFix is all you need.
    Thanks man

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