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Thread: What are you making?

  1. #2526
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Judith View Post
    The Rainbow Vomit Van looks a bit like feature creep It's quite distracting with those bright colors.
    It's a joke feature. An Easter Egg at most. I'm not sure I'll even leave it in the final version. Maybe an option people can toggle during pride month or something, I dunno.

    Quote Originally Posted by Judith View Post
    It also seems like it changes brightness mid-screen, and other cars have this effect while entering the screen from either side (bug?).
    The cars you can jump to are highlighted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Judith View Post
    Speaking of feature creep, I'm trying to push idtech4/TDM fork to fidelity level of something like Dark Souls 3, let's say.
    Pretty awesome paving stones at the bottom. What's going on with the more distant ones? All of a sudden it gets flat.

  2. #2527
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by Judith View Post
    Speaking of feature creep, I'm trying to push idtech4/TDM fork to fidelity level of something like Dark Souls 3, let's say. While I don't have time to model highpoly rocks and bricks to bake into lowpoly geometry and tiling materials, I can use Substance Designer/Alchemist materials and model some simple geometry on top of that. So far the overall effect is similar to parallax mapping, although the stretching is much less noticeable.
    That is pretty damn spectacular looking.

    Right now, I'm finally getting around to learning the one thing I've always dreaded learning: high to low poly baking. I've never been able to get it right, and, well, I'm making progress now, at least. My current attempt is only halfway borked.

  3. #2528
    Judith
    Guest
    The cars you can jump to are highlighted.
    So they both get highlighted and you see the directional arrow? Maybe that could be simplified, since you got a lot of things going on on screen already. Maybe just an outline would do?

    Pretty awesome paving stones at the bottom. What's going on with the more distant ones? All of a sudden it gets flat.
    I haven't finished modeling them yet

    Right now, I'm finally getting around to learning the one thing I've always dreaded learning: high to low poly baking. I've never been able to get it right, and, well, I'm making progress now, at least. My current attempt is only halfway borked.
    You're in for a treat once you started getting the hang of it It does prolong the work though. But the ability to fake both surface details and beveled edges with a normalmap is almost like learning a new superpower.
    Last edited by Judith; 9th Aug 2019 at 16:05.

  4. #2529
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Other random idea - Have differently themed levels. Like 1930s, future (so back to the future 2-like), medieval, prehistoric, alien world, 8-bit world (like in Bloodstained) etc etc.

  5. #2530
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by Judith View Post
    You're in for a treat once you started getting the hang of it It does prolong the work though. But the ability to fake both surface details and beveled edges with a normalmap is almost like learning a new superpower.
    It took me practically all day, but I finally did it. I baked a high poly object to a low poly mesh. It is truly a red letter day for me.

    And you know what the funniest thing is? For the longest time, it seemed I could not bake a normal without producing a ton of seams. Every attempt I made netted me terrible results, and nothing I tried seemed to move me forward.

    ...turns out all I had to do was set the image node I had my normal attached to to use non-color data. None of the tutorials I've read told me about that. How the hell did anyone expect me to figure something that small and nondescript out on my own? The only reason I caught it was because I decided to watch some random newbie video on baking, and it was mentioned almost as an aside.

    "Oh yeah, while we're here, go ahead and do this right quick."

    Well yeah you want to do that. It's kinda of important, given that it'll make everything look janky, and make you think you're not doing something right if you don't. That's not something you should mention in passing. That's something you'll want to go out of your way to draw attention to. Damn, people.

  6. #2531
    Judith
    Guest
    Not sure what node you're talking about, but normal seams are often result of not matching smoothing groups to uv islands or maybe model topology. Have you seen the video on pillars of perfect baking? Or just use the one from Substance, ut should give you better understanding of all the factors. Good hi poly model, low poly model with SGs reflecting the look of high poly model, and unwrapping with uv islands reflecting the hard edges. And good positioning of both meshes surrounded with good cage for baking averaged normals. That's like the shortest description I could think of

  7. #2532
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by Judith View Post
    Have you seen the video on pillars of perfect baking?
    Nope, but I'll watch it if you link it.

    What I did was read through a decent chunk of this page on Polycount, watched this video on Xnormal, and the use of cages and blockers, and eventually ended up on some random Blender specific tutorial that finally mentioned what ended up being the source of my problems.

    It's weird how every tutorial I've read or watched on UV editing over the years has stressed keeping your UV unwraps as seamless as you possibly can without distorting the underlying geometry. That's how I knew to do it, and how I've done it for all these years. Now I'm finding out that normal baking seems to be about giving every flat space on your model its own unique island, completely separated from the rest, totally flying in the face of everything I thought I knew.

    The only question that remains to me now is what to do when unwrapping models that don't have distinct hard edges to exploit, like spheres or mush.

    Here's the mesh in question. Now all I have to do is paint it.
    Last edited by Renzatic; 10th Aug 2019 at 14:13.

  8. #2533
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    I've found that when you're using a tool like Substance Painter, the UVs really don't matter at all except to make sure that they are all unique (no two areas using the same pixels) and are all roughly the same relative size for the amount of surface area that they cover.
    After that, it doesn't matter too much, because the tool handles everything else.

    Though you'll still want to pack the UV islands in as close as possible so as not to waste much of your image's space, but not to put them too close so that they bleed into each other at lower resolutions.

    UV mapping and packing really ought to be something that a computer should be able to automatically at a single click so you'd never have to worry about it. Sadly, it's a kind of complex problem and no one has developed a really good algorithm for it yet.

  9. #2534
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by Nameless Voice View Post
    UV mapping and packing really ought to be something that a computer should be able to automatically at a single click so you'd never have to worry about it. Sadly, it's a kind of complex problem and no one has developed a really good algorithm for it yet.
    I've heard that Cinema 4D and Maya are decent at UV packing. Blender? It gets the job done, but it's not exactly efficient about it.

  10. #2535
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    That's a shame. I had a foolish hope that if/when I finally get around to learning Blender, it would do a better job at UV mapping and packing. Guess I'm going to be disappointed.

  11. #2536
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    If you want something really nice, and are willing to spend about $170 USD for a program that just UVs, I've heard a lot of good stuff about RizomUV Virtual Spaces.


  12. #2537
    Judith
    Guest
    I'll send you the link when I get home, as I only have phone now. Btw. It's not true that proper UV division and placement gets irrelevant because of the Substance "magic". You still have to make some decisions here. Good thing is, most of the unwrapping tools have things like unpacking uvs according to smoothing groups, settings for padding etc.

  13. #2538
    Judith
    Guest
    The explanation starts around 5:30.


  14. #2539
    Judith
    Guest
    Now that I'm at home, a few more things worth clarifying:

    1) High poly vs smoothing groups vs uv islands:

    Usually, your highpoly model shouldn't have any smoothing group (or just have one) and look correctly. > Your low poly model should have smoothing groups that would mimic the high poly look. > Its uv islands should match smoothing groups – you should have uv seams where the hard edges are.

    Now, "hard edge" might be a bit misleading, since you'll often find that it doesn't always match the "real-life" hard edge. You'll get much more predictable results, when you assume that "hard edge" is when the angle between two surfaces is 80 or more.

    2)
    It's weird how every tutorial I've read or watched on UV editing over the years has stressed keeping your UV unwraps as seamless as you possibly can without distorting the underlying geometry.
    Hah, nope. Aligning UV seams to smoothing groups is one thing, but at least in case of normalmaps, it's better to keep angled UVs straightened. Not only they're easier to pack and save texture space, but you also avoid normalmap pixel aliasing, which might become a problem when scaling down your textures.

  15. #2540
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2016
    Location: Appleton, WI
    Being the snail on my own project.
    I have a free four hour demo for others to play if they're interested: https://www.patreon.com/lostlegendta...emursanknights


  16. #2541
    Judith
    Guest
    A small appendix on normalmap baking:




  17. #2542
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    It's funny how I used to think UVing was this arcane process that could only be barely understood through years and years of practice. I've come to understand that UVing is actually quite easy to wrap your head around.

    It's just tedious as fuck.

    And speaking of Blender, and good UV packing, I came across this entirely by accident a little while ago, and thought of posting it here. It's a $20 addon, but it looks to do a decent job packing UVs. The only thing that Blender's still missing would be a UV relaxer, which I'd really love to have.


  18. #2543
    Judith
    Guest
    It's just tedious as fuck.
    It's like a penalty for having fun modeling cool stuff, basically.

    But I prefer to do this semi-manually, because:

    1) In case of materials like wood, you'll make your life easier if you position all the islands vertically or horizontally, so they're all properly aligned with the woodgrain.
    2) If you have several surfaces per model, you'd want to group UVs per surface in 0-1 texture space (better readability and editing in Photoshop/Gimp later, Substance Painter isn't 100% self-sufficient for me)
    3) Contrary to popular belief, not all surfaces of the model have to have equal pixel density; those less important, rarely visible, or visible from afar can have smaller uv islands, you just have to be careful with controlling that.
    4) Mirrored UVs aka the biggest dilemma that you can have with UV islands. Great savings with texture space, but you have to watch for obvious repetitions and faces that can or can't be seen simultaneously when walking around the model.

    All of these require your decisions.
    Last edited by Judith; 14th Aug 2019 at 03:02.

  19. #2544
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    With Substance Painter, the only reasons why I think you'd have to go back to the old 2D editors would for minor adjustments, like color tweaks, or combining your various maps into a single texture. When you're painting in 3D, you don't have to worry about your seams showing up on the diffuse, because your texture is appropriately applied whenever you run your brush over your surface.

    By the way, have you heard about UDIMs yet? They're not necessarily more efficient than cramming all your objects into one atlas, but they make things so, so much easier to deal with.

  20. #2545
    Judith
    Guest
    I'm not really painting in 3d much yet. I use Substance for baking AOs, and procedural generation of things like accumulated dirt, dust, and edge damage. Since my workflow is Non-PBR, I have to adjust a lot of things in Gimp before export.

    Yeah, UDIMs are heavily used in movies and offline rendering, AFAIK in games you still have to use texture atlas approach.

  21. #2546
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Yeah, I forgot you're dealing with Doom 3. Still, it's setup isn't VASTLY different from your standard PBR fare. You basically just have to adjust your speculars, and ignore the metallic textures, and you're about set.

    And UDIMs are slowly and surely making their way into game engines. Substance Painter has supported them for awhile now, and UE4 gives them basic support from what I gather. Really, there's no reason for them not to at some point, because unlike, say, PTEX, it's not THAT different from standard UVing. You're just no longer limited to one UV grid.

  22. #2547
    Judith
    Guest
    Still, it's setup isn't VASTLY different from your standard PBR fare. You basically just have to adjust your speculars, and ignore the metallic textures, and you're about set.
    More or less, yeah. The main difference is the color range (Levels) for the diffuse and specular, which is much more contrasty and lighting-related for non-PBR workflows. Adjusting speculars is also more complex, since idtech4 uses both b&w and rgb speculars. B&W ones look more like something between plastic and metal, so they don't have much use in The Dark Mod IMO.

  23. #2548
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    You don't need to use an image editor to pack your various textures, Substance Painter has support for that built right into the baking process.


  24. #2549
    Judith
    Guest
    I'm not packing them, I need to test them ingame, basically. So I need to iterate on .tga textures and material file first. Then I make dds files out of everything but normamaps.

  25. #2550
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    I was replying to Renz, who mentioned packing?

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