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Thread: What are you making?

  1. #1026
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    My feeling lately is that you could approach game-making as a game itself, or anyway as part of your pastime or game-time.

    I think it's better to aim for a platform and ambition that one person could take-on by themselves without dedicated help, and (to recycle the old Irrational philosophy) to have a tech & asset base to work with that doesn't require you to do massive amounts of work like asset creation or creating new tech... Set your ambitions with what you can largely do with the tech you have in hand or near to hand without too much work, with maybe a few reasonable additions.

    Of course, better to come out with a finished smaller project than an ambitious project you quit on. But even smaller games can be inspired. Sometimes smaller games even have an advantage in being inspired, since they cut out the bloat that can water down the inspiration that can happen with big games.

    What's another truism to throw out? Figure out some core idea that drives your work and keep focused on it. Better your 4th best idea that has a really driving core idea than your 1st best idea that's actually a tangled mess of ideas which aren't very implementable, and wouldn't make for a solid game even if they were.

  2. #1027
    Level 10,000 achieved
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Finland
    Quote Originally Posted by demagogue View Post
    I think it's better to aim for a platform and ambition that one person could take-on by themselves without dedicated help, and (to recycle the old Irrational philosophy) to have a tech & asset base to work with that doesn't require you to do massive amounts of work like asset creation or creating new tech.
    Yeah this is the "model" I've been working from so far. Unity handles the heavy lifting when it comes to the engine(graphics, physics, platform compatibility, etc.) and I've been getting a lot of my assets from around the net. Here's some handy links in case anyone else needs some assets for their games:

    http://www.cgtextures.com/ - textures, free to use!

    https://www.freesound.org/ - soundeffects & music. Check the licensetype when you download something tho. There's 3 types. Free for any use, free with attribution to creator, and only for non-commercial products + attribution.

    http://archive3d.net/ - 3d models. A lot of them are quite polygon heavy tho, and not ideal for use in games. The license page here is brief and kinda vague, probably no risk in using this stuff in non-commercial games tho.

  3. #1028
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    What could be fun is to upload the code somewhere (insuring you are adequately protected in terms of rights first) and run a sort of crowd-sourced "remix competition" - see who can finish the game in the most interesting and high quality way in exchange for % of any money made.

  4. #1029
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Quote Originally Posted by Judith View Post
    Hah, so you need to team with people who complement your skills. I love making textures and models (I hate UVing though, it's like a punishment for all the good stuff ), but don't know jack about character modelling or coding, so environment or level design is my only option, if I want to work alone.
    Wish I had a person with awesome 2D art skills that's reliable, and does them in a good timeframe. I'd have made a substantially larger amount of games otherwise. But since I don't, have had to do it myself to varying levels of success.

    And for game making I generally go with the goal of making a certain kind of game. For example I went into Dragon's Castle wanting to learn how to make a 2D platfortmer, with Fishing Time it was to do a quick project that'd only take a month to do etc.

    Set yourself an achievable type of game to make based on your skill set and go from there. Don't aim too far above your skill set, or you run the high risk of hitting dead ends and giving up. Jotting down game ideas as soon as you think of them is another tip. I've got many down in the years since I started doing games dev.

  5. #1030
    True. In general, think big, build small, that's always a good advice. Prototype early and don't go into much details. Don't be too ambitious, start simple. Don't be afraid to discard ideas early, before you get too attached, etc. That's why reduced my activities to modelling and texturing. I know a thing or two about LD, but I never really got to practice that much. It's too time consuming, and I like to see results of my work in a "reasonable" time.

  6. #1031
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Third grave from left.
    Totally unrelated, but i need to vent a bit:

    Had a nice bsodding day so far.

    FFS, wtf does LONG even mean!? How bsodding long is LONG? Longer than mine? I doubt it! Arrrrrgggghhh!

    Anyway, take care when using weapons casts of mass destruction. And yes, that irpBitMap is missing an ampersand. Windows type "system" is quite inconsistent, i need to use the same variable as: LONG, ULONG and DWORD ... where LONG does not even make any bloody sense for BTS imo. I really really hate all the silly typenames - ie. ALL of them. Especially fun when half of the exact matches, for the target platform, can not be silently "converted"!

    Whatever, still totally my fault.

  7. #1032
    Administrator
    Registered: Oct 2000
    Location: Athens of the North
    Yeah - data types are a bit of a mess on Windows. A LONG is 32 bits (as shown in your disassembly and here. I'm surprised your cast didn't give a compiler warning.

  8. #1033
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2004
    Aah, the days of win32 programming. Yea all the SDK/APis use their own data types that are usually aliases of regular types. It's actually not a terrible idea when you consider cross-platform compatibility. I used to work on an inhouse engine once that did the same thing as well, since some data types were defined/handled slightly differently on Xbox vs Playstation for instance.

  9. #1034
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Third grave from left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Al_B View Post
    I'm surprised your cast didn't give a compiler warning.
    I would be really surprised when any compiler ever would give a warning there.

    A compiler should never give a warning that the user can not get rid of (disabling the warning itself does not count) - especially when the default setting for kernel mode driver compilation is "treat all warnings as errors". If, say, i legitimately wanted to use a 32 bit value as a pointer (to whatever, say LONG) - then how could i get rid of the warning?

    Windows type system is quite "special" on top of C inheritance - it uses, partially, Systems Hungarian (which IMNSHO is profoundly retarded and inexcusable). But to be fair, most of the mess is because of C:
    * long, short, etc and their intentionally ambiguous definitions (ADOPTING thous, the way they did, IS Microsoft's fault though)
    * example "short int" -> unknown bit encoding, range at least -32767..32767 (not -32768 as is true for x86 as it uses two's complement)
    * no boolean data type
    At some point you need to have a specific encoding (dealing with external storage etc) -> absolutely have to redefine some other types for it to do it portably (i use __intXX [ex: int32u -> unsigned __int32] in VS, as thous are exactly defined and happen to match exactly most of the prevalent hardware).
    In addition to that, it is often important to adhere to your platform specifically -> byte, word, dword, qword from the assembler world (thous types make some historical sense, but should be used only when needed in higher level languages).
    Add all that together and you have one big blissful mess.

    ... umm ... i'm blabbering.

  10. #1035
    Administrator
    Registered: Oct 2000
    Location: Athens of the North
    Quote Originally Posted by zombe View Post
    I would be really surprised when any compiler ever would give a warning there.
    I thought from your puzzlement about the size of "LONG" that you were compiling 64 bit code. If you were then you would get a warning on that line depending on the data type of m_irpBitMap. If m_irpBitMap is defined as a LONG then it would be narrower than a LONG * under Microsoft's definition of the datatypes and gives a compiler warning - at least in Visual Studio. I've done a quick test and it appears that 32 bit platforms don't give you the same warning under equivalent conditions.

    Quote Originally Posted by zombe View Post
    At some point you need to have a specific encoding (dealing with external storage etc) -> absolutely have to redefine some other types for it to do it portably (i use __intXX [ex: int32u -> unsigned __int32] in VS, as thous are exactly defined and happen to match exactly most of the prevalent hardware).
    Why not use C99's stdint.h? It's portable and does the same thing - e.g. uint32_t, int16_t, uint64_t, etc.

  11. #1036
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Third grave from left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Al_B View Post
    I thought from your puzzlement about the size of "LONG" that you were compiling 64 bit code. If you were then you would get a warning on that line depending on the data type of m_irpBitMap. If m_irpBitMap is defined as a LONG then it would be narrower than a LONG * under Microsoft's definition of the datatypes and gives a compiler warning - at least in Visual Studio. I've done a quick test and it appears that 32 bit platforms don't give you the same warning under equivalent conditions.
    64bit code does not have RAX and friends . I knew how LONG was defined, i was just annoyed by the multitude of similar types used inconsistently and having stupid type names (LONG!? btw. "long", while i would never use it, is fine in my book, but LONG? ... sure Microsoft did not want to hang themselves by where-ever C standard chose to go [understandable at the time] and hence needed their version of exactly what "long" meant [ie. fairly unspecific], but nowadays it is just sooooo annoying).

    I am intrigued, i can not see any scenario (32 or 64 bit target) where that code could sensibly give a warning with any compiler. Can you give a code example of what you meant?

    Quote Originally Posted by Al_B View Post
    Why not use C99's stdint.h? It's portable and does the same thing - e.g. uint32_t, int16_t, uint64_t, etc.
    O_o, C99 had thous? I was fairly sure fixed integer types were added by C++11 (iirc, with an unspecified/implementation upper limit for some reason). In any case, back in the day i choose my types i found __intXX to do the job - also, i find "_t" suffixes revolting (well, any type that has "_" in it), but that is just me perhaps. Yeah, thous types are fine too.

  12. #1037
    Administrator
    Registered: Oct 2000
    Location: Athens of the North
    Quote Originally Posted by zombe View Post
    I am intrigued, i can not see any scenario (32 or 64 bit target) where that code could sensibly give a warning with any compiler. Can you give a code example of what you meant?
    Sure - Warning C4312 can be raised by casting from a value to a pointer. There are a couple of examples there but it can happen with unsigned values as well as signed ones.

  13. #1038
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Third grave from left.
    Ah, the 32-64 migration option. Since the warning comes only when specifically asked for then it is fine. It was deprecated with 2010 version and is in unsupported state since 2013 version (which i currently use). I have never used the option myself as it has no use (have never needed to convert broken 32 bit code to 64 bit) - just creates a bunch of invalid warnings (ie. the option is for migration and not normal every day use).

  14. #1039
    Administrator
    Registered: Oct 2000
    Location: Athens of the North
    It's certainly active on Visual Studio 2013 (which I also use) when all warnings are enabled. gcc also gives the equivalent warning by default "warning: cast to pointer from integer of different size" if the size of your variable and the pointer are different even with the explicit cast.

  15. #1040
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Third grave from left.
    Interesting. What i see:

    * VS2013 express edition (Win7 native or normal target [driver or v120 toolset]).
    * I cannot find the option anywhere in property pages.
    * No warning is given with warning level 4 (max).
    * Several pages of utter-garbage-level (padding to struct added / inline used / etc) warnings are given with "enable all warnings" - the 32bit->pointer conversion is not among them.

    Odd.

  16. #1041
    Administrator
    Registered: Oct 2000
    Location: Athens of the North
    As you've noticed, warning level 4 isn't the maximum as it doesn't include warnings that are turned off by default. If you don't want to enable all warnings (and I agree that it's not ideal with the warnings that are given by the standard include files) then add the following to a common include file if you have one:

    #pragma warning(default:4302)
    #pragma warning(default:4311)
    #pragma warning(default:4312)

    (Warnings 4311 and 4302 also deal with other forms of pointer truncation). I don't know why Microsoft decided that "most users don't want to see them" as they're potentially very serious errors. You'll need to make sure that you're also targetting a 64 bit platform in Build / Configuration Manager - if you're still compiling in 32 bit mode then those warnings won't be shown.

  17. #1042
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2013
    Made this because I can:


  18. #1043
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2014
    Location: Bangalore, India
    So I've been interested in game developing for a while now. Could I get into something like Unity with zero programming knowledge?

  19. #1044
    Level 10,000 achieved
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Finland
    It's worth a try! I suggest you download the latest version and start going through the tutorials.(I know Project: Stealth sounds intriguing, but start with something simpler. I suggest the Beginner Editor and Scripting tutorials first. If you wanna mix it up with something more fun maybe check out the physics or animation tutorials, or the Rolling Ball project.)

    Not gonna lie, it's gonna take some work and dedication. But once you get to the point where you're starting to figure it out, and you manage to actually get some of your ideas working, it's quite a rush.

    However it ends, up you won't be sorry you spent a few evenings getting your feet wet with coding/game development.

  20. #1045
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2001
    Location: Somewhere
    although you are better off starting with something more simple like gamemaker or such if you have no coding skills. Will give you a taste of whats required.

  21. #1046
    New Member
    Registered: Aug 2014
    Location: Thief : Deadly Shadows
    Quote Originally Posted by gkkiller View Post
    So I've been interested in game developing for a while now. Could I get into something like Unity with zero programming knowledge?
    Unity is a SDK. Its name comes from the different technologies it merged together into a single kit. They are many forums for game developers (only).

    I don't know but I will go with Flash/Java if I was *learning* programming. One big trick is to make games is to make a design document with all your ideas. Every developer writes down his idea. You need a good working environment with enough space for all the papers on a table or floor.

    Unity has many methods made already from the developer as "player-controller" method.


    Read the documentation at last : http://wiki.unity3d.com/index.php/Main_Page

    There are some tutorials for Unity : UNDEFINED




    Making games is not the same things as programming. You do not care about optimizations and use dumb methods (many multiplier games store everything clientside including those FB games with diamonds...). There is actually different types of people : engine programmer, model creator, artist, level designer, story creator, script creator... involved in the game-making process.
    Last edited by Unclaimed Channel; 3rd Jan 2015 at 12:37.

  22. #1047
    Level 10,000 achieved
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Finland
    Gave myself a good ol' kick in the rear end and got back into Unity. I need an enemy character for a game so over the past few days I've been learning about and implementing character animation and getting an AI to navigate using NavMeshes, this is the result:



    I'm no good at modelling characters but thankfully it turned out I didn't have to, for this experiment at least. Discovered this really great open source program called MakeHuman which lets you set up a 3D character via a customization interface not too dissimilar to what you'd see in Skyrim. After that it rigs and exports it to a variety of different formats. Getting it into Unity, rigged and all, turned out to be quite easy! I also made Walk/Idle animations in Blender, tho this part is a bit more tricky. I've done a lot of character animation in 3DS Max but I'm kind of a novice at Blender. Anyway, I'm not gonna be using this character for anything except this test so I didn't spend long on the animations. The way it decides which animation to show is by gauging the speed of the character and setting it to Idle if the movement is slow enough, tho the way it calculates the speed is a bit glitchy at the moment for some reason. Glad to have the basics of all this stuff down. Next up: implementing it into the game, and getting the AI to react to the player in addition to just patrolling.

  23. #1048
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2004
    Absolutely love the name "Agent Suitguy"

  24. #1049
    Hey, thanks for the MakeHuman, seems like a good find. I'm no character modeler, so that might come in handy. Does it let you play with skeletons or other kinds of corpses though?

  25. #1050
    Member
    Registered: Mar 1999
    Location: I can't find myself
    Quote Originally Posted by gkkiller View Post
    So I've been interested in game developing for a while now. Could I get into something like Unity with zero programming knowledge?
    Tom Francis, creator of Gunpoint and Floating Point and the upcoming Heat Signature, just started doing a series of "GameMaker for absolute beginners" tutorials. First episode here, I'd recommend giving that a watch. The thing about Unity and the Unity tutorials is that (from my experience with them, anyway) they do assume that the user has at least some fundamental programming knowledge, while Tom is doing this from the perspective of the viewer not having coded so much as a "Hello World!" before in their life.

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