While moving my old stuff over to the new framework i hit a snag: the LZO lib i used is GPL infected... damnit ... for doing my own stuff it did not matter, but now i have to (or rather: prefer to assume i need to be free of GPL infection at some point) protect myself against that kind of thing. Which means LZO is useless (its commercial form is not an option at the present time).
So, any recommendations for replacement that has similar goals / performance characteristics?
PS. If sacrifices need to be made then i prefer to do them at the compression time.
FastLZ (MIT licence) comes to mind. LibLZF (BSD licence) also sounds interesting if high compress ratio is not your ultimate goal.
Also, Google just released snappy (BSD licence), and its benchmark results are intriguing. This one is C++ (with C bindings).
EDIT: Actually, snappy looks pretty much awesome.
Last edited by Briareos H; 16th Jun 2011 at 09:11.
Alrighty ... getting them all - will report results whenever i get some tests going.
File:
* arial.ttf (367112 B) - quite good match for typical data
Test method:
* doing every action twice and timing only on the second time to eliminate cache effects.
* tests come in pairs: packing and then unpacking the result
* times are given in CPU clock cycles (ie. __rdtsc).
* all results have been verified by memcmp + data length ("OK!").
* time fraction is given compared to LZO (packFast & unpack).
Results:
* 32bit target
* full optimizations (link time codegen, __fastcall, etc)
* 64bit targetCode:LZO pack fast : T 12946703 ( 0.998) 248355 (0.677) LZO unpack : T 2383290 ( 1.000) OK! LZO pack well : T 152666078 (11.772) 216378 (0.589) LZO unpack : T 2849355 ( 1.196) OK! FastLZ pack fast : T 8414670 ( 0.649) 251407 (0.685) FastLZ unpack : T 2930790 ( 1.230) OK! FastLZ pack well : T 8443125 ( 0.651) 251407 (0.685) FastLZ unpack : T 2931443 ( 1.230) OK! LibZF pack fast : T 6640260 ( 0.512) 249666 (0.680) LibZF unpack : T 2358060 ( 0.990) OK! Snappy pack fast : T 8971065 ( 0.692) 258600 (0.704) Snappy unpack : T 1797510 ( 0.754) OK!
* full optimizations (link time codegen, __fastcall, etc)
Snappy is WAY faster at unpacking than anything else! However - compression ratio is also the worst.Code:LZO pack fast : T 14421023 ( 1.016) 248355 (0.677) LZO unpack : T 2402130 ( 1.000) OK! LZO pack well : T 135855637 ( 9.568) 216378 (0.589) LZO unpack : T 2857927 ( 1.190) OK! FastLZ pack fast : T 7763407 ( 0.547) 251407 (0.685) FastLZ unpack : T 2835637 ( 1.181) OK! FastLZ pack well : T 7762125 ( 0.547) 251407 (0.685) FastLZ unpack : T 2835847 ( 1.181) OK! LibZF pack fast : T 6416865 ( 0.452) 249666 (0.680) LibZF unpack : T 2459917 ( 1.024) OK! Snappy pack fast : T 10050075 ( 0.708) 258600 (0.704) Snappy unpack : T 1641833 ( 0.684) OK!
Packing efficiency is quite equal among them all - except LZO slow packing which is much better than anything else :/ ... yeah, it was perfect for baking data.
Notes:
* LibLZ has some compile time options i did not tamper with.
* Snappy causes a LOT of warnings.
* Snappy does not compile under VC++ at all due of errors - threw away all "inline" etc that caused problems (link time codegen should remedy that i think).
* FastLZ, LibZF & Snappy seem to be unaware of 64bit target - lots of 64bit incompatibility related warnings.
Last edited by zombe; 16th Jun 2011 at 13:41.
It looks gorgeous! I don't remeber NWN material specification, but would you be able to make the windows lit or you'd have to use regular lights?Originally Posted by Renzatic
By the way, a I made a short clip for the lantern: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCpIDgUksdw
Now I am trying to do something from this concept of a gothic sofa: http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/...cac98f086g.jpg
Not so much yet, but I feel it is going somewhere: http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/...2b2d74726g.jpg
Yup. You've got an option to assign an extra texture for brighter textures, or set certain materials to emit a glow. It's not the most robust thing in the world, but it's enough to make my windows shine at night.
By the way, is that lantern in T3 or the UDK? It looks great either way. The only thing I'd suggest is making the texture bloom out just a tad bit more, so it just barely overtakes the edges of the darker splotches on the glass.
And speaking of the UDK. I dunno if I love Speedtree or hate it. I love it because, damnit, it's slick. I watched a 5 minute tutorial on how to use it, and suddenly I'm making trees like it's nothing. Once I got the hang of all the settings, I made this little birch tree in about 10 minutes.
It's 1100 tris. That's nothing, specially considering how nice it looks. The only complaint I have about this tree is due to a fault of mine. My leaf textures are too flat.
But then I hate it because they want $10,000 for me to be able to export my trees to .obj. Oh well, so much for doing things the easy way. Cockteases.
Maybe this is of some use to you?
tree[d] is an easy to use tree generator!
An accessible user interface allows you to create nearly any type of tree within minutes. Use the included media to try out the many options, to create realtime trees for your games or visualizations.
Once you have created your perfect tree, make an infinite number of variations by clicking a single button. And export the tree as a 3D model or as a billboard texture.
Export 3D models to .x, .obj or .b3d
Best of all tree[d] is free to use, and you can include the trees you make in your own projects, commercial or free, as long as they are not model packs, texture packs, 3D model generators, or texture generators.
Eh. I wasn't impressed. It doesn't have the exacting control of Speedtree, and, most importantly, doesn't give you the option to manually edit each piece of the end results. It's basically a hit randomize until you get something you like affair. It's good for what it is, but I'd like something a little more flexible.
Really, this is something I need to learn how to do myself, by hand. Right now, I can almost produce trees as good as what you get in Speedtree (trees aren't all that hard when it comes right down to it). The problem is, I end up spending 5x the polygons to do the exact same thing. I guess for now, I'm gonna keep studying up and practicing until I can get it right.
Damn, this is just absolutely fan-freaking-tastic. Didn't even take me 15 minutes to make this. At the very least, it's teaching me cool ways to do polygon cages for my leaves and branches, and how to lay them out properly for best effect.
Last edited by Renzatic; 20th Jun 2011 at 14:30.
Hah, I knew you'll love SpeedTreeI don't know how much they charge for standalone version, though. When I tried to check that on their site, some legal document flashed before my eyes and that scared me so much I didn't read a word
I hope it's not $10k, that's the price of 3ds Max, Maya or equivalent, right?
Do you think it could create believable trees at around a 1-1.5k poly budget?
Thief could really do with some new tree models. It's one thing I could never improve in the Thief EP, because I couldn't even begin to wrap my head around how to make a good tree.
That screenshot Renz posted only a few posts up already says it has 1100 tris, and it looks pretty good to me.
Darkmod needs more good trees too. The dearth of them is one of the biggest drawbacks with outdoor FMs at the moment IMO.
Eh, right, I even read that and it was what put me in mind of mentioning making trees for Thief... but I read it yesterday, and by the time I got around to replying, I had forgotten!
I wonder if it would be possible to create a tree that fit a certain rough shape (e.g. fit the shapes of the original T2 trees, but looked a lot better)?
It's $10k. But you have to keep in mind that it's a realtime in-engine tree renderer, not just a modeller. When you buy a license, you get the complete SDK, which includes the source code alongside the modeling software.Hah, I knew you'll love SpeedTree
The cheapest option you have is the lease, where you pay $1500 up front, then pay the remaining$8500$9995 for when whatever media project you're using it for gets published. You only get limited access to the source code that way, but it seems to be the best (and truthfully, only feasible) option for the hobbyist who just wants to make trees and export the geometry to use as statics in their stuff.
Still, regardless of efficiency, $1500 is pretty steep for a program that just makes trees. I'd be willing to pay that much for a modeler, but not for something with such a narrow focus.
...or they could quit focusing solely on studios, and release the modeler standalone for relatively cheap so everyone can have a go at it outside of UE3/Expensive High End Commercial Project.
edit: Here's the pricing. Ahh, to be rich...
You mean those conical shaped, leaf sheet trees, where you model only the trunk, and leave the branches to be handled by alpha masks? You could improve those just by adding more geometry. Use a smaller, more granular leaf texture, and up the polycount from the 40 you've got in the originals, to about 300, and you'll have much fuller looking trees without much more effort.
I used a similar method for those dead pines I did back in January. I think I ended up using about 650-700 tris for them.
Last edited by Renzatic; 21st Jun 2011 at 17:36.
Personally I'm saving my money for SpeedTurd. Only a $50,000 License fee and I can make all the 3D turds I want, complete with chunky textures and ambient buzzing flies & wafting stank particle effects.
It's easier than making a real turd. Just a flick of the wrist, and a single grunt is all it takes to create multipoly, ambient occluded poops. Plus Speedturd completely processes nuts, so your turds always come out nice and smooth!
Buy now, and receive the crapbrary catalog free of charge!
oh wow, whoever put together a lot of these tech demo videos must've gone scavenging through dethtoll's dustbin
oh like i'd toss out awesome music like that
I can't remember what thread it was in, but I remember helping someone out with making shapes in Blender a few months back. Now that I'm having to use Blender to make trees (Modo has huge problems displaying alpha masks in the realtime viewport), I've been looking for some good tutorials to help me come to terms with its goofy ass interface.
...and then I found this.
All these videos are quick and to the point, very much living up to its crash course name (and it isn't for retards, either). The earlier videos don't go into any specifics, and don't spend much time explaining the tools to you. But if you want to get down to learning without the usual "...where the hell is that" handicap Blender is so well known for, then you should watch them, no doubt.
edit: watching that retopology video kinda shows me that I haven't been too terribly fair to Blender in the past. It's actually a fairly impressive thing once you learn how to use it.
Last edited by Renzatic; 28th Jun 2011 at 00:47.
If you want to make 2D games without learning programming, you could try Game Maker (pretty cheap, has a free version) or Multimedia Fusion (more powerful once you know what you're doing, but also more expensive)
Faux reflections, its optically incorrect, but it works seamlessly!
So Eldron, when you gonna quit teasing us with these awesome screenshots, and give us something we can play?
I did it! It took me an almost anal retentive level of studying, of how trees grow, of how to best align leaves on the leaf texture sheets so they fill up space without being too overwhelming...it goes on. Two weeks of messing with foliage, and I finally got a good technique down.
I can make almost Speedtree quality trees...
...and keep them at or below 1000 tris
Blenders realtime renderer isn't quite as robust as what you get in Speedtree, but it still looks pretty alright.
Man. I dunno what happened to me, but I've turned into a giant dork.
edit: Made a nice little scene with my new trees. It's actually slowly starting to turn out how I envisioned it. Well, a little more cartoony, and a little less snow, but it's going.
Last edited by Renzatic; 30th Jun 2011 at 03:17.
Very, very nice Renz. Those are some lovely trees. I never imagined NWN could have a scene looking as pretty as the one you have coming along.
I'm sorta envious of your skills because I've spent years fooling around with 3D Studio and all I can do to this day is a slightly misshaped wang -- and only if I'm pushed, at that.
A roguelike emergent sandbox type game, much like minecraft, but leaning way more towards dwarf fortress,
meaning: skill-based stats system, experience, recipes for crafting, and townbuilding with npc's
"Finished" my space invaders game for class and turned it in today. Wasn't really finished to the amount I wanted it to be, but whatever. Worked well enough for the grade I think.
Here's a screenshot:
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