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Thread: Emit & Re-emit Fireshadows

  1. #1
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: LosAngeles: Between Amusements

    Emit & Re-emit Fireshadows

    I want to re-emit a Fireshadow AI after some delay whenever it gets killed. I plan to have an AI Archetype which has Does Patrol set, so that when the AI is emitted on top of a TrollPt it starts patrolling, and I will have several different Fireshadows roaming about. My problem is how to emit a Fireshadow which is already CD linked to it's own emitter. I plan to use an NVRelayTrap to turn it's death throws into a delayed TurnOn to the emitter. But how can each Fireshadow AI be emitted already hooked up correctly?


    Edit: Maybe I need to look more closely at NVCreateAndLink ...
    Last edited by LarryG; 17th May 2011 at 22:24.

  2. #2
    jtr7
    Guest
    What are you doing that is different than how they are done in Thief Gold? Specifically, what Fire Shadow action are you going for that Thief Gold doesn't have?

  3. #3
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2005
    Location: The Inverted Manse
    I think he is trying to replicate the TG behaviour in T2 as close as possible. The FireShadow script is not available in T2.

  4. #4
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: LosAngeles: Between Amusements
    Exactly. FireShadowEcology and FireShadowFree are TG only.

  5. #5
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: LosAngeles: Between Amusements
    Hmmm .... NVCreateAndLink seems to only go the wrong direction, from the creator object to the created object. I need it make a link from the created object back to the creator object. Rats!

    I suppose I could have an archetype for each individual Fireshadow with a hardwired TDest to its own unique delayed emitter ... hmmmm.

    Any suggestions for a better way to do this?

  6. #6
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    *ahem*

    ~ControlDevice

  7. #7
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: LosAngeles: Between Amusements
    oh shut up!

    Boy do I feel dumb!

  8. #8
    DromEd Archmage
    Registered: Nov 2010
    Location: Returned to the eternal labor
    Hi, I have done FireShadow in ThiefII with Gen and Convict, Get ready, the tutorial will begin:

    Obj Hierarchy: Creature>Undead: Add Fire Shadow
    Tulz>Crystal>FireCrystal>FirShadcryst
    Fnord>Marker>DisapPoint
    >FSBack
    (For more Effect) SFX>Fire>ExplosionFX>FireElementalExplosion>FireShadExplosion

    Stimuli: Add: FireShadFlee
    FireShadDisap

    Metaprop:AI_Behaviour_Gen>FireShadEffects>M-SourceFireShadFlee:Source:Rad=1;1;FireShadFlee
    >M-SourceFireShadDisap:Source:Rad=1;1;FireshadDisap
    >M-FasterShad: Creature: TimeWrap: 0.20
    >M-BuildFireShadow:receptron:Touch:min10:creatobj:FireShadow;Me
    >M-ShadowsFleeing: AI>ATTRIBUTS>VISION "&" HEARING:NULL
    >AICore>AlertCapNess: None0;None0;None0
    All tools made? Let's Go!:


    FireShadow:

    Script: ZombieRegen
    Game>SlayResult: NoEffect
    ~ParticleAttachement: Fireplaceyellow & Orange in Head, right and left hands
    Renderer: MeshTexture: (Replace Malserv01.gif with a fireshadow texture wich you have made)
    Shape: Malserv01
    Abilities Setting: DoesPatrol: True (Tick Random Patrol true if you want)

    Response>Signal: Possum: (DO NOT COPY THE ZOMBIE PROPERTIES)

    Add/remove Metaprop: Add;M-ShadowsFleeing
    Add/remove Metaprop: Add;M-SourceFireShadflee
    Goto object: DisapPoint1 (Rename the disapPoint with this name); Fast
    Add/Remove Metaprop: Add;M-SourceFireShadDisap
    //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
    Add receptrons: SourceFireShadFlee: Add Metaprop: Me;M-FasterShad
    creatObj: FirShadcryst;Me
    SourceFireShadDisap: CreateObj:FireShadExplosion;Me
    :FSBack;Me

    ______________________________________________________________________________
    FSBack:
    Source:Rad=1;11;Touch Shot Two Times
    Receptrons:Touch:Min10:Add Metapropr: ME;M-BuildFireShadow

    __________________________________________________
    FireShadExplosion: Do what you want with sfx. you can
    make an impressive effect with:
    Renderer: Shadow: 120
    _________________________________________

    More Details:

    Source: I have wrote if it is a collision, a radius; The stimuli number; The Stimuli Name and after
    the number of shot (If I have wrote nothing, write 1 shot).
    The Disapoint should be accessible by the Ais. You can put in game just ONE disapoint.

    When you have done everythings, you will get a FireShadow like Thief Gold without
    new script. I have spent one month to rebuild the fireshadow with Convict
    and Gen, so I ask some respect for that hardwork.

    Thank you

  9. #9
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: LosAngeles: Between Amusements
    Thanks I'll have to see what you did and how that differs from what I did. Where were you when I started my Fireshadow in T2? thread almost a year ago?




    If you are using ZombieRegen, doesn't that mean that your fireshadows play possum instead of disappearing and regenerating later? Oh, I think I see, you teleport it to DisapPoint1 ... or it runs to DisapPoint1 ... or something ....
    Last edited by LarryG; 18th May 2011 at 19:55.

  10. #10
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    That's quite clever.

    No, the zombie won't play possum because FireMage specifically said not to copy the signal responses that control the zombie's behaviour upon being "killed". Instead, you set up a different set of responses to dying, e.g. to run away and set some metaproperties to create a fire arrow.

  11. #11
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: LosAngeles: Between Amusements
    On looking over FireMage's tutorial, I think I get most of it, but what I don't understand is how the Fireshadow gets regenerated / reset to normal (special metaprops removed) after it gets to DisapPoint1. Also from looking at ZombieRegen, it seems that the fireshadow will not get resurrected if it is killed by WaterStims "If the type of damage that killed the zombie was a WaterStim (i.e. it drowned), then it dies normally." This seems not to be appropriate for a creature that you expect to kill by water ... So maybe I don't understand enough about what the script is doing vs. what the Response to Signal: Possum is. Is it that all you are using ZombieRegen for is to send the Possum signal? or are you using it for the responses to damage as well? If so, this seems to make your fireshadows vulnerable to lightbright and FireStim, which doesn't seem right, or are you giving it an Abort response to those?

  12. #12
    DromEd Archmage
    Registered: Nov 2010
    Location: Returned to the eternal labor
    héhé, you just don't understand that:

    I've write in the tutorial this:

    Create a new marker:Fnord>Marker>FSBack

    And it's properties are:
    FSBack:
    Source:Rad=1;11;Touch Shot Two Times
    Receptrons:Touch:Min10:Add Metapropr: ME;M-BuildFireShadow

    When a fire Shadow disapear with FireShadStim, It create the FSBack Marker.
    I have forgotten to write that you may change the Shot Time of Touch (Approximatly 30000), then, when the fireshadow run and disapear, It will create FSBack, then, FSBack, will be destroy after 30 Seconds and after, it create a NewFireShadow. Because does patrol is already ticked, this fireshad will patrol.
    My tutorial is not perfect, easy and clear everywhere, but with it, you can't imagine how many frightening creatures you can invent.

    EDIT: When I use the Possum Signal, I cheat a little, let me explain you how a zombie's properties are:
    Script:ZombieRegen: It is the script which do that, when the zombie's lifepoints fall to Zero, Zombie get new lifepoints after a Possum Signal.
    Response:Possum Signal:You can use it, only if the monster get the zombieregen properties AND if it get the Slayresult: "NO EFFECT".
    Then, the monster will play a converse before its regeneration. So, the zombie have a converse wich ask to it to fall in the floor and to sleep with new lifepoint.
    The fireshadow is different, it don't fall and sleep, but run fast and disapear by a destroyingStim that all, it left a crystal, an explosion, and a marker wich will create a new fireshadow.

    With Possum you can invent a monster who become invisible with a simple Add metaprop: Add "special metaprop which make an Ai invisible". The creature will be just invisible, it will attack you immediatly after that. You won't hear a falling body and nothing after. If you won't to believe that, look at the zombie properites, change the Signal's Converse and see. Actually, it is very easy.

    EDIT2:
    You can add that the fireshadow will be hit by fire, touch, gas and other stimuli. It will be hit if you add the receptrons.
    If the fireshadow is fireproof, but killable by water, possum and zombieregen will change NOTHINGS about stimuli, special stimuli wich will explose zombie are hidden in the zombie properties, like the "projectile" with "bowsite limb object", the GAM's object only will hit by that. You kill a fireshadow by arrows and sword, it will disapear. That's all.

    If you want a piece of advise, make me this fireshadow and read all the tutorial, and you look at the fireshadow's Behaviour.
    Last edited by FireMage; 19th May 2011 at 15:53.

  13. #13
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: LosAngeles: Between Amusements
    You're right. I don't understand. I don't even see a stim called FireShadStim mentioned in the tutorial. Two other stims, but not that one.

    It also looks like I would end up with FSBack markers all over the place with your approach. The way that the original fireshadow scripts worked, I believe, they were regenerated at the same original spot every time. That ensures they start patrolling the right route. It seems that with your approach they would get regenerated where they were killed, which might not be near the intended patrol route, causing them to possibly start patrolling along an incorrect route. But maybe I just don't understand what you are doing.

    In any event, I think I'll stick with my own idea for regenerating the fireshadows, at least until Telliamed releases his updated gen.osm with FireShadowEcology and FireShadowFree fixed to work with T2. If I can't get my NV script approach to work, I may take another look at what you are doing, but I think you may have left off some pieces of the puzzle in your explanation. Thanks, though.

  14. #14
    DromEd Archmage
    Registered: Nov 2010
    Location: Returned to the eternal labor
    There is Only 2 FireShadStim: FireShadFlee and Disapear.
    Flee create the Crystal and force the fireshadow to become frendly and flee without trouble.
    Disapear destroy the fireshadow to left a marker wich create a new. It is right, she won't take the right road of patrol, but it is impossible to choice, because, she is a new Fireshadow.
    You can create a metaprop who get the invisibility power to the fireshadow, but i think that you will halas, hear the flammes, see the particles and the light.

    Sadly, you can't choice.

    You can do that without problem:

    FireStim; No max;No min; Abort
    WaterStim; no max; no min; Damageobj; ME; none

    And Zombie Regen: With this script, if the fireshadow get a slay result with "NO EFFECT", so you can use Signal response: Possum.

    The Signal give to the fireshadow a metaprop wich emit a source of FireShadowFlee, if fireshadow, get a stimuli of FireShadowFlee, She drop a firecrystal and become friendly. After, She get the order to go to the DisapPoint1 fast.
    And, she get a finally a metaprop which emit a source of FireShadowDisap, if she recept this Stim, she drop a FSBack marker, and she is destroyed.

    The FSBack emit a Stimuli, this stimuli hit the marker when it is made. So to evict a fast comeback of the fireshadow, it will just put in it properties a metaprop. The metaprop say that: If I get 10 points of Touch, I'll create a fireshadow and I will be destroyed.

    End. After that, if you don't understand, i am sorry, but I can't do anythings more.

  15. #15
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: LosAngeles: Between Amusements
    Thanks. I appreciate your further explanation.

    I don't think that your approach will work well for my situation, but if my approach doesn't pan out, I may take another look. Thanks again!

  16. #16
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: LosAngeles: Between Amusements
    I've started testing the new FireShadowEcology and FireShadowFlee scripts that Telliamed just released in beta test. So far they seem to work just fine (though I can't get the schema to fire when FS is spawned), but I have an issue with my FireShadow setup: for some unknown reason it patrols at a dead run only. I can't imagine what I did to cause this. I've looked over and over at the archetype and don't see anything. Maybe I don't know what to look for ... what could cause this? When the FS alerts, it slows down to start searching, and when it fights, it seem to fight normally, but the patrolling is at a dead run!


    EDIT: Never mind. At one point I must have been experimenting with Actor Tags and added LocoUrgent 0. Once I got rid of that, the FS slowed down on patrol.
    Last edited by LarryG; 29th May 2011 at 09:19.

  17. #17
    Dóttirin klęšist oft móšur möttli
    Registered: Apr 2015
    This tutorial about fireshadows is hard to understand. I wish I had a demo in order to steal the fireshadow for a gamesys.dml

    https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthre...=1#post2066162

  18. #18
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: LosAngeles: Between Amusements
    You could of course look at what I ended up using in my released mission, Finals at the Academy.

  19. #19
    Dóttirin klęšist oft móšur möttli
    Registered: Apr 2015
    That's what I did already. The fireshadows in Finals are doing what they are supposed to do, and look good. The issue is your complicated setup. I can copy this (may I?), I just export everything as dml and create many new archetypes. This will work.

    The thing is: The dml is meant as a gamesys dml for others. I want to keep it as simple as possible.
    If Firemage has a more straightforward setup, I'd prefer this.

  20. #20
    DromEd Archmage
    Registered: Nov 2010
    Location: Returned to the eternal labor
    Quote Originally Posted by Unna Oertdottir View Post
    This tutorial about fireshadows is hard to understand. I wish I had a demo in order to steal the fireshadow for a gamesys.dml

    https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthre...=1#post2066162
    Wow, very old post indeed, well, I can redo it and send a demo (mis+gam)
    Hopefuly it still work with NewDark but I see no reason why it shouldn't. I will certainly update a few things in the process since I was pretty new to Dromed back in time.

  21. #21
    Dóttirin klęšist oft móšur möttli
    Registered: Apr 2015
    Much appreciated. Thank you

  22. #22
    DromEd Archmage
    Registered: Nov 2010
    Location: Returned to the eternal labor
    Quote Originally Posted by Unna Oertdottir View Post
    Much appreciated. Thank you
    Okay, hwg : https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zO0...ew?usp=sharing

    Enjoy!

    I followed the steps of the old tutorial I made but also improved it a bit!
    If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask!

  23. #23
    Dóttirin klęšist oft móšur möttli
    Registered: Apr 2015
    Very good You get credits

    So there are custom
    -Stims
    -Some metaproperties
    -The FireShadow and his links

    Did I forget something? I have to export it as dml.

    Some typos there. I hope I don't break anything if i fix it
    dml system hates typos and refuses to work.
    Last edited by Unna Oertdottir; 20th Oct 2019 at 15:09.

  24. #24
    DromEd Archmage
    Registered: Nov 2010
    Location: Returned to the eternal labor
    Here the list of new stuff:

    --Objects :

    FS_Respawn : a marker to spawn the FireShadow (right under marker archetype in fnord)
    FireCrystalPhys : a FireCrystal with physical properties (inherit from firecrystal in tulz)
    FireShadow : the beast itself (inherit directly from undead)

    --Stims :

    FireShadFlee : The stimulus to apply all effects when it flees (like dropping the crystal, accelerating and triggering the vanishement)
    FireShadDisap : The stimulus to make the creature vanishing instantely, leaving the respawn marker at it last location

    --MetaProperties :

    M-FireShadowBehavior : The Super Archetype to store all the archetype related to the FireShadow (its use is to prevent FS-related MProp to be mixed with the rest, it has no effect)
    M-FS_Vanish : Make the FS emiting "FireShadDisap" stim to itself.
    M-FS_Fleeing : Make the FS emiting "FireShadFlee" stim to itself.
    M-FS_Flee0-9 : Adjust the FS reactions to the "FireShadFlee" stim like the "FireCrystalPhys" dropping and acceleration,
    leading to its forced vanishement at the last step if the FS is stuck and can't reach a "Flee Point"
    That's all!

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