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Thread: Sneaky Upgrade: Unofficial patch for Thief 3

  1. #351
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Platinumoxicity View Post
    After playing for a few hours now, I've noticed that this patch has increased the probability of the good ol' "floating Garrett glitch" occurring about 100x.
    This has come up a couple of times before but I'm not able to reproduce it - I hardly ever get the floating bug myself. If you have time, could you experiment a bit with the settings to see if some of them have an effect? Try some of the original resolutions, e.g. 1600x1200. Try lowering the frame rate limit and turning off the frame rate limiter. Try setting the refresh rate limit to 60. Better turn off all mods first.

    Also, can you verify that the bug is back to normal if you uninstall the patch?

    The ghost difficulty in the minimalist project that is included in the patch is also bugged. The miners and pagans who get into a fight in the Sanctuary produce more dead bodies than the objective restrictions allow to be discovered.
    Sounds like an oversight in the MP. And the increased AI awareness in the MP probably makes it more likely that the fight will break out.

  2. #352
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2005
    Location: Heart of Darkness
    Quote Originally Posted by snobel View Post
    Try some of the original resolutions, e.g. 1600x1200. Try lowering the frame rate limit and turning off the frame rate limiter. Try setting the refresh rate limit to 60. Better turn off all mods first.
    I don't really see how the resolution could be the cause. But framerate could cause animations to glitch out. The problem is that I have set the refresh rate and frame limiter to 60 which is the native framerate of my monitor, and I'm not going to play a game in anything other than that. Going higher than your monitor's native rate is always a bad idea, and lower makes playing the game unenjoyable because of input delay and visual choppiness.

    Wait a minute... the vsync. I'll be right back.

    EDIT: Nope. Turning off vsync only made controls more responsive. I can still reproduce the floating glitch with 100% success.

    EDIT2: Okay, I actually set the maximum framerate to 90fps, while keeping the refresh rate at 60Hz. And now I can no longer make Garrett float every time I try to mantle up a chair in the Rutherford castle office. Weird since if the original framerate of the game is 30fps, then why is the game more compatible with 3x that than 2x?

    So conclusion based on these limited experiments: 60fps and 60Hz with vsynch on breaks the game's mantling and causes the floating animation bug in about half the times when you try to jump at an obstacle and climb over it. 90fps and 60Hz with vsynch off seems to return the game to vanilla levels of glitchiness.
    Last edited by Platinumoxicity; 20th Dec 2014 at 04:30.

  3. #353
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Platinumoxicity View Post
    I don't really see how the resolution could be the cause.
    Me neither, but sometimes there's black magic involved... It was mainly for comparison in case you wanted to test the unpatched game.

    The problem is that I have set the refresh rate and frame limiter to 60 which is the native framerate of my monitor, and I'm not going to play a game in anything other than that.
    Note that both are max values: With the defaults you will get the highest refresh rate that your monitor supports for the chosen resolution, up to 85 Hz. If that's 60 Hz, then you'll get that. The frame rate limiter will only kick in if vsync is off. I'll update the description in the tweaker to warn not to change the values unless you have reason to.

    So conclusion based on these limited experiments: 60fps and 60Hz with vsynch on breaks the game's mantling and causes the floating animation bug in about half the times when you try to jump at an obstacle and climb over it. 90fps and 60Hz with vsynch off seems to return the game to vanilla levels of glitchiness.
    Thanks for trying this out. Can you verify that it's still working if you reset the refresh rate limit to the default 85 Hz?

    Weird since if the original framerate of the game is 30fps
    What do you mean by this?

    then why is the game more compatible with 3x that than 2x?
    I think the problem is caused if you set the frame rate limiter value equal to the refresh rate used. There must be an edge case there - I've tested that before but it may depend on how fast your CPU is etc.

  4. #354
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2005
    Location: Heart of Darkness
    Quote Originally Posted by snobel View Post
    Thanks for trying this out. Can you verify that it's still working if you reset the refresh rate limit to the default 85 Hz?
    I set the refresh rate to 85 and kept max fps at 90 and I kept jumping around the same way as I did when I could get the glitch half the time. The glitch did not appear.

    However when I turned vsync on the glitch appeared.

    Quote Originally Posted by snobel View Post
    What do you mean by this?
    Deadly Shadows is not a PC game. It's an XBox game. There was no way hardware like that could run a game with full dynamic lighting at the actual refresh rates of TVs. It was many years after 2004 that someone got the PC port of the game to actually run at the refresh rates of desktop displays. No matter how fast your machine was, the game would be just as choppy as it was on the console. I think many of the issues with the game today come from these mods forcefully dodging the hastily cobbled together garbage that the whole game was built out of originally.

    I've seen the same thing happen with Thief 1 and 2, with the NewDark engine, though to a lesser extent. I've been experiencing glitches that I have never seen before in 15 years of playing the games.

  5. #355
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Platinumoxicity View Post
    I set the refresh rate to 85 and kept max fps at 90 and I kept jumping around the same way as I did when I could get the glitch half the time. The glitch did not appear.
    However when I turned vsync on the glitch appeared.
    That's quite weird. Did you get the glitch with 90 fps / 60 Hz / vsync on? What about 0 fps / 85 Hz / vsync on? (I.e. disabled frame rate limiter.)

  6. #356
    Quote Originally Posted by Platinumoxicity View Post
    Hey, I've been playing through the series with these new updates with NewDark and now TDS Gold and the sneaky upgrade for the first time. The OpenAl EAX in Thief 1 and 2 is incredible, but I have never once gotten EAX to work with Deadly Shadows, even though I have a Creative X-Fi sound card. Is there any way to get EAX to work with TDS?
    Although i doubt this is your problem, as this happened to me once, i think its worth giving a try - which is to go into your sound card's control panel and see if it offers an option to enable EAX effects. I had this option and thought it was for cheesy reverb effects for all sounds, but it actually prevented EAX from being used in The Dark Mod for me.

  7. #357
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    The 1.1.4.2 minor release is out - updating Thief 3 Gold to version 1.1. Note that savegames from 1.1 beta or earlier cannot be carried over.

    Apart from the T3G update, not much has changed. There's a new option, which is currently used to disable T3G while playing FMs. Later it will be exposed in the tweaker for the other mods.

  8. #358
    New Member
    Registered: Sep 2010
    Is there any way to integrate the great retro HUD from the Minimalist Project manually without using the entire mod? I love the minimalist HUD, but i prefer to play without the mod (i like to edit the .inis and the gamesys file myself to match my own personal taste, but this dosen't seem to work with the mod installed).

    Any help would be much appreciated!

  9. #359
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Texas
    This new version 1142 is being flagged by Norton with reputation 1 virus. Is this a false positive?

    Edit: Oops after further study it just means that the file is not well known....probably because it just came out..lol

  10. #360
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    Quote Originally Posted by Mebber View Post
    Is there any way to integrate the great retro HUD from the Minimalist Project manually without using the entire mod?
    When your main concern is the size of the standard HUD and the position of weapons and belt items, you should be able to use options from the SU for tweaking them. Have a look at the configuration tool, I don't have the game with me right now unfortunately.

  11. #361
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    Things are not really geared towards customization - for instance there's quite a few settings in T3UI.ini that need to be manipulated in order to adjust for widescreen. Changing those in the file will have no effect. Others (for tweaks, mainly) are overridden only when you change the relevant SU option away from the default. So keeping as many options as possible at their defaults will maximize your freedom...

    It's going to be very hard to get only the MP HUD and nothing else, but nothing's stopping you from opening the MP installation (through the SU start menu group) and messing with the contents. Don't use the tweak tool after that, it's going to get very confused.

  12. #362
    I am having an issue completing St. Edgars Cathedral, I put holy symbol in, and the gear to bring the cage down, and grabbed the Chalice, but the objective is not checked off.

  13. #363
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    You're playing Thief 3 Gold? Better post those issues here.

  14. #364
    New Member
    Registered: Sep 2010
    lol, i'm quite a fool . I didn't realized the Sneaky Upgrade actually installed the mod contents into a completely different folder (i'm not very proficient technical-wise) - i assumed all the mod stuff was installed into the T3 folder, and that the vanilla .ini files had been replaced with the mod files.

    Thanks to your little hint i found the actual mod directory and tweaked the minimalist .inis and gamesys to my liking, and it works just fine... thank you snobel.

  15. #365
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2005
    Location: Heart of Darkness
    Quote Originally Posted by noisycricket View Post
    Although i doubt this is your problem, as this happened to me once, i think its worth giving a try - which is to go into your sound card's control panel and see if it offers an option to enable EAX effects. I had this option and thought it was for cheesy reverb effects for all sounds, but it actually prevented EAX from being used in The Dark Mod for me.
    Wait a minute... are you saying that having the EAX option in the Creative control panel enabled makes the option for EAX unavailable in games? It sounds weird but it would explain why I've had an EAX sound card all these years without being able to use EAX in any game ever.

  16. #366
    If you're using Windows Vista or 7, the problem is the system itself. That's why Creative released ALchemy, so you can add EAX games there and you'll have EAX emulation. EAX settings work in-game even if you have EAX effects enabled for all the sounds in your card control panel.

    Last edited by Judith; 29th Dec 2014 at 08:14.

  17. #367
    New Member
    Registered: Dec 2014
    Hello snobel!

    Recently i heard about the fan made patch for Thief 3 along with the quite known Thief 3 Gold mod included so i decided to check it out to try it, unfortunately the installer said that XP is not supported.


    Is there a way for the patch to work on XP?

    Or at least tell me if there's a version that works on XP?


    I know that XP is a bit outdated, not being updated at all by Windows and all, but being a high school student living far away in the land of nowhere and all, i don't really have the finance to get the new updated W7/8 that would probably also need a new rig to run, so, any kind of help here would be appreciated.

    Thanks.

  18. #368
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Location: Prince Edward Island, Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by ZikShadow View Post
    I know that XP is a bit outdated, not being updated at all by Windows and all, but being a high school student living far away in the land of nowhere and all, i don't really have the finance to get the new updated W7/8 that would probably also need a new rig to run, so, any kind of help here would be appreciated.

    Thanks.
    Students can usually download a copy of Windows 7 / 8 for around 50 dollars and Windows 7 tends to run pretty decent on some older hardware. Might just need some more ram if your PC will take it.

  19. #369
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by ZikShadow View Post
    Recently i heard about the fan made patch for Thief 3 along with the quite known Thief 3 Gold mod included so i decided to check it out to try it, unfortunately the installer said that XP is not supported.
    Is there a way for the patch to work on XP?
    If you're not in a hurry, then wait a while - I hope to find time to restore XP support in January. T3 Gold may get a minor update as well at that point. If you are in a hurry, try this:

    1. Install the 1.1.4.2 Fat Edition. Enable T3 Gold in the installer
    2. In the game installation, find SneakyTweaker.exe and copy it somewhere (like up one level from the System folder). Make a desktop shortcut to the copy
    3. Uninstall the patch. When asked whether to uninstall the mods, click No
    4. Install the last version. (There's no Fat Edition)
    5. If you have existing saves for the original game, find your SaveGames folder and rename it to SaveGames-Orig or similar. (The old version doesn't keep orig saves and mod saves apart, and mixing them is a bad idea)

    After that T3 Gold should work, except for the fog tweak and some other minor stuff. No guarantees - this hasn't really been tested!

    Edit: Or take NH's solution.
    Last edited by snobel; 29th Dec 2014 at 11:34.

  20. #370
    New Member
    Registered: Dec 2014
    @snobel

    Thanks, i'm not really in a hurry for now so i'll wait for the mod support.

    Even if i tried installing the "Fat" version, it wouldn't run due to it closing up after it told me that the mod doesn't support the OS i'm using and links me to the forum page.


    @New Horizon

    50 dollars is about + Rp. 600.000 in my country, which is a 'lil high for me.

    i would have enough money to get that far by the time W9 has been released and already been updated.

    If i'm not dividing the savings for college as well that is...

  21. #371
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by ZikShadow View Post
    Even if i tried installing the "Fat" version, it wouldn't run due to it closing up after it told me that the mod doesn't support the OS i'm using and links me to the forum page.
    Hmm... Apparently I added a check to the installer after I discovered that the new JPEG library broke XP support.

  22. #372
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2014
    Location: Istanbul, Turkey
    This is some serious work, mate. Appreciate your efforts! Works great. Does the newest version fix the empty endgame bug?
    Last edited by Arcatera; 3rd Feb 2015 at 18:27.

  23. #373
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    Yes, it does.

  24. #374
    Quote Originally Posted by Platinumoxicity View Post
    Wait a minute... are you saying that having the EAX option in the Creative control panel enabled makes the option for EAX unavailable in games? It sounds weird but it would explain why I've had an EAX sound card all these years without being able to use EAX in any game ever.
    Nope, the other way around. It unchecked, doesn't allow effects in games, on my newer card. My old cards didn't require this and caught me off guard.

  25. #375
    Installed the 'fat' version of the Sneaky Upgrade for Thief 3, and a couple things seem to work, but not all. For instance, it turns off 'Aero' for Win7 and pretty sure it gave me new video resolutions to choose from (i.e., I assume 1920x1200 16:10 wasn't an option for me before), but there are still mid-mission load zone ether portals and the frob highlight is still atomic blue despite me changing such things via the SneakyTweaker. I wonder if I need to uninstall T3 entirely and re-install from scratch.

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