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Thread: Sneaky Upgrade: Unofficial patch for Thief 3

  1. #801
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    I had a brief look. It looks like it may be the same bug that CiroConsentino encountered here - it's the same map (South Quarter) and it's crashing in the exact same way, except immediately on load.

    Are you on game day 1 too? Do you remember where you made the save, was it somewhere near the well that is the entry to the pagan map?

    I'll have another look later today, but since I couldn't fix it last time I probably can't this time either.

    Edit: Minimalist should be OK to use with T3G. From SU 1.1.6 on it's automatically disabled for FMs.

  2. #802
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2012
    Location: Where you live
    Judith,
    I am playing the Thief 3 campaign, not FMs.
    I tried disabling all mods, but then it won't allow me to load any games (as if no saved games are found).
    I enabled everything but the Minimalist - but it still results in a crash.

    snobel,
    Yes, it's in the South Quarter. I came back after getting the Builder's Chalice, exited the apartment, sold all the loot and I was making my way towards the well. I can't recall where exactly I saved anymore - but I did not enter the well yet, that's for sure.

    Mine crashes when the 'loading' progress bar is filled all the way up.

    Windows 7 x64 SP1, no themes enabled.
    Using the GOG.com version of the game.

    The 'application version' and 'additional information' fields differ from CiroConsentino's:
    Code:
    Problem signature:
      Problem Event Name:	APPCRASH
      Application Name:	Thief3.exe
      Application Version:	1.1.6.404
      Application Timestamp:	419badb1
      Fault Module Name:	Thief3.exe
      Fault Module Version:	1.1.6.404
      Fault Module Timestamp:	419badb1
      Exception Code:	c0000005
      Exception Offset:	002d5a68
      OS Version:	6.1.7601.2.1.0.256.1
      Locale ID:	1033
      Additional Information 1:	638f
      Additional Information 2:	638fc22a19a5dea2896c04f25b2949ea
      Additional Information 3:	a8ba
      Additional Information 4:	a8ba317cdc4a10784c932e9928b0172c
    
    Read our privacy statement online:
      http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?link...8&clcid=0x0409
    
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      C:\Windows\system32\en-US\erofflps.txt
    'Fault Module Version: 1.1.6.404' - isn't that Sneaky.dll's version number?

    Which mod might be causing this? Thief Gold (they edited the maps, right?)?
    Just so I would know what to turn on off for my next play.

    Edit
    Can I make a request?
    Would you be able to add a tweak setting for adjusting the loot glint range for Minimalist?
    Not everyone's a fan of walking up close and personal to every single object. A master thief should recognize valuables from longer than an arm's reach.
    Free range should go from 0x-25x, sensible range should go from 0.5x-8x.

    Adjustment to their carry capacity limitations would also be welcome.

    Thanks!
    Last edited by Csimbi; 17th Apr 2016 at 10:02.

  3. #803
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    As expected, no luck with the save - sorry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Csimbi View Post
    I tried disabling all mods, but then it won't allow me to load any games (as if no saved games are found).
    Savegames from T3G are not compatible with the original games, so those saves are hidden if you disable T3G.

    Yes, it's in the South Quarter. I came back after getting the Builder's Chalice, exited the apartment, sold all the loot and I was making my way towards the well. I can't recall where exactly I saved anymore - but I did not enter the well yet, that's for sure.
    CiroConsentino's game would crash if you were on one of the two streets leading to the well area and were looking in that direction - do you remember if that was the case for you?

    The 'application version' and 'additional information' fields differ from CiroConsentino's
    The most important value is "Exception Offset", which is the place in the code where it crashes. In these cases it's something to do with AI patrols, and a parameter which ought to be a valid address is zero.

    'Fault Module Version: 1.1.6.404' - isn't that Sneaky.dll's version number?
    It's the file version for Thief3.exe.

    Which mod might be causing this? Thief Gold (they edited the maps, right?)?
    Just so I would know what to turn on off for my next play.
    Yes, it's probably a bug in the T3G South Quarter map. But Beleg Cúthalion already had a look and found nothing out of the order regarding the misplaced AI. So it's possibly caused by a bug in the editor.

    Turning off T3G just to avoid this intermittent bug would be a pity but you could perhaps mix things up by doing the pagan mission before the hammer one the second time around?

    Would you be able to add a tweak setting for adjusting the loot glint range for Minimalist?
    I'd like to make loot glint and carry capacity tweaks, not only for Minimalist but in general. It's on the to-do list - I'll see if I can bump it up a few notches.

    I'm not sure that Minimalist modifies the ranges, though. It uses a couple of scripts to turn the glint on and off depending on whether the loot has frob focus or not. (The original MP turned loot glint off completely by default. The glint-when-focused option is my personal favourite, especially when combined with a more subtle glint texture. I'd really like to make that generally available in the SU but I'm not sure it's doable.)
    Last edited by snobel; 17th Apr 2016 at 11:52.

  4. #804
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2012
    Location: Where you live
    Quote Originally Posted by snobel View Post
    As expected, no luck with the save - sorry.
    Oh, well, at least you tried, thanks for that!

    Quote Originally Posted by snobel View Post
    CiroConsentino's game would crash if you were on one of the two streets leading to the well area and were looking in that direction - do you remember if that was the case for you?
    Yes, I read the description you linked earlier. No, I was nowhere near the well. I was either in a house or under the window of a house (to which you can steal a key, dunno what it's called, there's a barrel under the window, a fireplace with a guard sitting and you can go upstairs).

    Quote Originally Posted by snobel View Post
    Yes, it's probably a bug in the T3G South Quarter map. But Beleg Cúthalion already had a look and found nothing out of the order regarding the misplaced AI. So it's possibly caused by a bug in the editor.

    Turning off T3G just to avoid this intermittent bug would be a pity but you could perhaps mix things up by doing the pagan mission before the hammer one the second time around?
    Mixing it up is a good idea - let's hope it helps.

    Quote Originally Posted by snobel View Post
    I'd like to make loot glint and carry capacity tweaks, not only for Minimalist but in general. It's on the to-do list - I'll see if I can bump it up a few notches.
    It's not in the game in general. Minimalist adds two trigger scripts based on the know how posted here for this purpose: LootGlimmerOn (TS_4271.tsd) and LootGlimmerOff (TS_4272.tsd). These scripts use 120.0f (that is 120 as a float) for range checks. I can hex-edit the two scripts to change these and the new range works just fine - but I'm sure there is a more elegant solution than hex-editing.

    The capacity is stored in T3Gamesys.t3u, same as the two trigger scripts for the glint loot.
    If everything else fails, I might be able to give you some pointers on hex editing (changed the capacity caps like that in the vanilla game at some point).

    Let me know if you need help with either hex-editing venture.

  5. #805
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Csimbi View Post
    No, I was nowhere near the well. I was either in a house or under the window of a house (to which you can steal a key, dunno what it's called, there's a barrel under the window, a fireplace with a guard sitting and you can go upstairs).
    That's the house right next to the well area? It's also the house where the problem AI is supposed to be patrolling.

    It's not in the game in general. Minimalist adds two trigger scripts based on the know how posted here for this purpose: LootGlimmerOn (TS_4271.tsd) and LootGlimmerOff (TS_4272.tsd). These scripts use 120.0f (that is 120 as a float) for range checks.
    You're right, it's a simple range - not dependent on frob focus.

    The capacity is stored in T3Gamesys.t3u, same as the two trigger scripts for the glint loot.
    If everything else fails, I might be able to give you some pointers on hex editing (changed the capacity caps like that in the vanilla game at some point).
    Knowing the file offsets for those things could save me a bit of time.

  6. #806
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2012
    Location: Where you live
    Quote Originally Posted by snobel View Post
    That's the house right next to the well area? It's also the house where the problem AI is supposed to be patrolling.
    I could not resist and tried again. Yes, you're right! That's the house.


    Quote Originally Posted by snobel View Post
    You're right, it's a simple range - not dependent on frob focus.
    As for the loot glint ranges, both follows the Unicode String 'kTPT_Float':
    TS_4271.tsd: float is at offset 0x125
    TS_4272.tsd: float is at offset 0x16D

    Quote Originally Posted by snobel View Post
    Knowing the file offsets for those things could save me a bit of time.
    I'll have a look at the capacity - might take a few days (can't spend too much time on in during the work week).

    Edit
    Found a scanner on my NAS, so it was just a click, lol
    Based on the lame description it gives, I think it was coded by me, lol.
    You can grab it here.
    In case you don't want to run it, here's the output for \ProgramData\Thief 3 Sneaky Upgrade\Installed Mods\Minimalist Project\System\T3Gamesys.t3u:
    Code:
    string=T_InventoryHelpTextBroadheadArrow =0x32178; $=200
    string=T_InventoryHelpTextBroadheadArrow =0x321CD; #=15
    string=T_InventoryHelpTextExplosiveMine =0x2A48B; #=5
    string=T_InventoryHelpTextExplosiveMine =0x442AC; $=550
    string=T_InventoryHelpTextExplosiveMine =0x442F3; #=5
    string=T_InventoryHelpTextFireArrow =0x25EC3; #=10
    string=T_InventoryHelpTextFireArrow =0x3AF0B; $=500
    string=T_InventoryHelpTextFireArrow =0x3AF4E; #=15
    string=T_InventoryHelpTextFlashBomb =0x284D4; #=5
    string=T_InventoryHelpTextFlashBomb =0x44676; $=200
    string=T_InventoryHelpTextFlashBomb =0x446B9; #=20
    string=T_InventoryHelpTextGasArrow =0x2A222; #=5
    string=T_InventoryHelpTextGasArrow =0x3B2F0; $=650
    string=T_InventoryHelpTextGasArrow =0x3B332; #=5
    string=T_InventoryHelpTextGasBomb =0x39A58; #=5
    string=T_InventoryHelpTextGasBomb =0x44A3F; $=750
    string=T_InventoryHelpTextGasBomb =0x44A80; #=5
    string=T_InventoryHelpTextHealthPotion =0x528CA; $=400
    string=T_InventoryHelpTextHealthPotion =0x5291D; #=5
    string=T_InventoryHelpTextHolyWaterPotion =0x31B50; #=5
    string=T_InventoryHelpTextHolyWaterPotion =0x46395; #=5
    string=T_InventoryHelpTextMossArrow =0x25CCD; #=15
    string=T_InventoryHelpTextMossArrow =0x3B1C6; $=250
    string=T_InventoryHelpTextMossArrow =0x3B209; #=20
    string=T_InventoryHelpTextNoisemakerArrow =0x2911F; $=450
    string=T_InventoryHelpTextNoisemakerArrow =0x29175; #=5
    string=T_InventoryHelpTextNoiseSuppressor =0x5C157; $=250
    string=T_InventoryHelpTextNoiseSuppressor =0x5C1BA; #=5
    string=T_InventoryHelpTextNoiseSuppressor =0x5D43D; #=5
    string=T_InventoryHelpTextOilFlask =0x3B9D3; #=5
    string=T_InventoryHelpTextOilFlask =0x46257; $=350
    string=T_InventoryHelpTextOilFlask =0x46299; #=5
    string=T_InventoryHelpTextWaterArrow =0x25BB2; #=15
    string=T_InventoryHelpTextWaterArrow =0x2A0C3; $=200
    string=T_InventoryHelpTextWaterArrow =0x2A107; #=25
    *had to modify the output a bit because it'd mess up the board ;-)
    also sorted by alpha

    Dunno what's with the duplicates.
    Could be either mission-specific, difficulty-setting-specific or just dummies or leftovers.
    I guess a quick test will reveal with offsets are the right ones. (I am guessing that the offsets close to each other are the real ones.)

    Edit 2
    Found yet another tool that comes with even more offsets:
    http://mab.to/LFMWfO1FO
    Last edited by Csimbi; 18th Apr 2016 at 08:59.

  7. #807
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    Thanks, that's potentially very helpful.

  8. #808
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2012
    Location: Where you live
    Cool. Finally I could help someone ;-)

  9. #809
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    Quote Originally Posted by Csimbi View Post
    Found a scanner on my NAS, so it was just a click, lol
    Based on the lame description it gives, I think it was coded by me, lol.
    You made my day, sir

  10. #810
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2012
    Location: Where you live
    I am at the Asylum.
    I can't pick up the Mask from the chair and I can't pick up the telescope, either.
    I my recollection's correct, I am supposed to pick up an item in nearly every cell - why can't I pick these up?
    They are doing the glowing flashy thingie (as if they were meant to be picked up).
    Any workarounds?
    Thanks!

  11. #811
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    Those items are to be used only when you've been instructed to by ... someone. Are you that far along?

  12. #812
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2012
    Location: Where you live
    Erm, if you mean the little girl, then yes. You get the fuse the attic and that's where you meet her, too. She told me about the blood and throwing it down the drainpipe. Is this the event you are referring to? (Can't recall it anymore, played it like 2-3 years ago, hehe.) I have not thrown the blood down the drainpipe yet, still exploring. If it's normal, then it's all good. I wanted to check that it's not a bug (this is usually the hardest level for me so I would not want to have to restart at a very late stage).
    Thanks!
    Last edited by Csimbi; 22nd Apr 2016 at 18:11.

  13. #813
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    Things are fine. Just do as you're told. Eventually those objects you mentioned will come into play.

  14. #814
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2012
    Location: Where you live
    Yep, just finished it, thanks!

    Edit
    Are you fixing maps?
    Auldale, goldsmith's chest:
    The loot can be had without opening the chest (activating the chest once grabs the loot, activating the chest again starts lockpicking only to find the chest empty).
    Here's a screenshot, you can see the loot glint texture's corner sticking out:

    Note: had to auto-level the colours so something could be seen - shot was nigh pitch black.

    Edit 2
    Ok, finished the game with Sneaky 1.1.6.
    I have to say it felt great, thanks for making it happen!

    If there's anything else I'd like to see fixed, it's the psychic AIs: they seem to know where arrows came from; they head to the exact spot right away. All they should hear is a swoosh and the impact sound. While the swoosh might be considered directional, they could start investigating into the direction where the arrow came from - but not head to the exact spot right away.

    All in all, great job!
    Last edited by Csimbi; 23rd Apr 2016 at 09:51.

  15. #815
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2008
    Location: Slovakia - Zemplín region
    Quick question: If I installed the Standard Sneaky Upgrade and I want to only install johnp's texture mod on top of it, is it safe ? Will it work all right or should I only ever use the version of the texture mod from the Fat Sneaky Upgrade ?

    Also: Is it normal if my Sneaky Upgrade install of TDS has the screen going black for a second or two before the loading screen appears during loading ? This pertains to all of the loading I've seen in the game, from load zones to loading individual saves. My resolution is 1024x768 and so is the game's. So I doubt it's a resolution problem. At least one that's apparent to me.

  16. #816
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    I'd definitely recommend using the fat SU version. You can deselect the other mods during installation if you're sure you don't want them. With the SU version you can change the configuration without reinstalling, plus the textures will work in FMs in addition to the original game. The old John P installer should work though, as long as the IBT patcher gets run correctly, which it sometimes doesn't. (IIRC you need to check your registry settings - the ION_ROOT path must not have a trailing backslash.)

    The black screen is normal. Any level change causes the game to restart itself, and while that's going on a small auxiliary exe sets up a black window to keep the desktop covered.

  17. #817
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2012
    Location: Where you live
    Quote Originally Posted by snobel View Post
    I'd definitely recommend using the fat SU version.
    Me, too. Grab the 'Fat' release, that includes everything so you can cherry-pick whatever tickles your fancy without risking a borked installation.

  18. #818
    Quote Originally Posted by Csimbi View Post
    Me, too. Grab the 'Fat' release, that includes everything so you can cherry-pick whatever tickles your fancy without risking a borked installation.
    I agree! The fact that the fat edition contains my briefing videos has nothing to do with it, of course.

    Just a thought, but would it be a good idea to rename both the versions in a future release? The size difference between the Standard and Fat versions is rather large, relatively speaking. But the Fat edition only "weighs" 255MB. Such a number was huge 15 years ago, but nowadays, with ginormous AAA games being downloaded from Steam and GOG, it shouldn't be that much of an issue.

    My proposition would be to rename the Fat edition of the Sneaky Upgrade as the standard edition, aka "The One People Should Be Playing". The version which is now the "Standard Edition" could be rebranded as the Light version of the Sneaky Upgrade for people who are still on dialup or just want parts of the experience. It's probably just a question of changing the wording of the opening post and making the fat release more prominent, but I might be overlooking other considerations. What do you think, snobel?

  19. #819
    Ditch the light edition altogether. 250mb is a joke.

  20. #820
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by mensch View Post
    Just a thought, but would it be a good idea to rename both the versions in a future release? [...] My proposition would be to rename the Fat edition of the Sneaky Upgrade as the standard edition, aka "The One People Should Be Playing". The version which is now the "Standard Edition" could be rebranded as the Light version of the Sneaky Upgrade for people who are still on dialup or just want parts of the experience. It's probably just a question of changing the wording of the opening post and making the fat release more prominent, but I might be overlooking other considerations. What do you think, snobel?
    Good point - I'll buy it. But I think I'll wait for the T3G expanded Inn map to be out before making that switch, and also find new names for both versions to avoid confusion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kristijonas View Post
    Ditch the light edition altogether. 250mb is a joke.
    There are people who would disagree. Besides, when a new version is out and there are no changes to the mods - which is usually the case - then you only need the light edition to upgrade, which is convenient. And I need it during testing anyway because the full installer takes a long time to build.

  21. #821
    New Member
    Registered: May 2016

    Save Games

    Has anyone got a thief 3 gold compatible save just after the hammerites and pagans

  22. #822
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    Why do you need it?

  23. #823
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    Try this replacement T3.exe, which should behave like the original except for launching the patched game. Please report back if it works - if it does, I'll add it to the installer for when Steam is detected.

    Currently you'll lose the ability to run the unpatched game (which is handy for debugging) but I think I can work that in.

  24. #824
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    Thanks for reporting back. I've uploaded a new version (under the same link) that will work with FMSel, passing the "-fm=<folder>" arg on to the game. Also, "T3.exe -orig" will make it start the unpatched game.

  25. #825
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    A small stupid bug - apparently I didn't bother to actually launch an FM yesterday. Please re-download, the new version should work.

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