Sneaky Upgrade: Unofficial patch for Thief 3

[Jax64]

Not sure what it is, but my game seems very unsmooth with the Sneaky Upgrade. I uninstalled it just to test, and while there's some issues there too, it's noticeably smoother without the Sneaky Upgrade. I'm getting a constant 100 FPS with SU and 120 without, but the game still looks choppy and jittery. Makes no sense. Don't remember it being like this before, though the last time I played this was in 2014. Any ideas?

You can try the ideas proposed on this thread, which include using a Direct3D wrapper such as dgvoodoo or d3d8to9. With dgvoodoo, you must copy D3D8.dll within the "MS" subdirectory of the zip to your Deadly Shadows "System" directory. Running the configuration utility included in the zip will let you further customize behavior, such as the window mode and the ability to disable the watermark that is enabled by default. With d3d8to9, you just need to copy the downloaded file to your Deadly Shadows "System" directory. While either of these may solve your problem, I would recommend dgvoodoo as an initial attempt since I originally was experiencing behavior similar to your description, and using dgvoodoo remedied it.

If that fails or if you experience other issues after trying this, experimenting with the Troubleshooting section in SneakyTweaker may help.

[snobel]

Not sure what it is, but my game seems very unsmooth with the Sneaky Upgrade. I uninstalled it just to test, and while there's some issues there too, it's noticeably smoother without the Sneaky Upgrade.

It does sound like the same issue as in that other thread. While a D3D wrapper may cure it, it would be preferable to find the root of the problem. I've just reinstalled Windows 10 and I'm currently installing and setting up all the stuff I need to build the SU. When that's done I'll see if I can reproduce these issues.

I'm getting a constant 100 FPS with SU and 120 without

You disabled the frame rate limiter? Frame rates that high will break some animations, such as lockpicking - or at least that used to be the case?

EDIT: You know, it actually seems like it's the camera/sensitivity of the camera+movement that makes things seem unsmooth.

Hmm... the original game renders at a lowered resolution while the camera is moving, to keep frame rates high. It's possible I changed the default, thinking that modern graphics cards would have no problems handling the full resolution. I don't have the tweaker available right now, but try looking for a setting, something like 'rotation blur' and change that.

Also, when comparing frame rates to the original game, please run at one of the original resolutions, such as 1600x1200.

Also, disabling third person in the SU config does nothing - I'm still able to hit "V" and switch.

I'll have a look at that when I can.

Did you get T3Ed working?

[Gordon Frohman]

Thanks to the both of you. It actually was something completely unrelated: GSYNC. I turned it off and now it's smooth as butter, for some reason.

snobel: Yeah, I got the editor working, but good god, I was lost. I'm somewhat familiar with the TES construction set, but this is even more foreign. Luckily, as far as I can tell, that gamesys editor seems to work.

EDIT: Well, it WAS working. The combination of deactivating GSYNC and dgvoodoo worked, but it crashed once or twice when loading current save/starting a new game. For some dumbass reason I removed the d3d8.dll thinking it was just the GSYNC and then it got choppy again, but now it won't load a game or start a new one without CTDing. It doesn't even load the level, just a long black screen and then crash.

EDIT 2: Turning off Direct Load in Troubleshooting has fixed my crashing.

[Helegad]

Thank you snobel for making this patch. Just finished TDS for the first time. Nowhere near as good as Thief Gold or Thief 2 but it was passable at least. I know I would have encountered a whole heap of technical difficulties if it wasn't for this patch, so great work fixing all that up Here's a few issues I encountered:

Glyph stays on sewer entrance even after mission is complete. This doesn't happen anywhere else.


If you exit Fort Ironwood through the graveyard, you will not be told where you're going.


This one happens on the final day when you're running around with the Sentients. The guard who's blackmailing the tavern for free wine in Old Quarter has a book/diary on his table, and the entry is broken.

[Gordon Frohman]

What's the best way to tell if the Minimalist Project is working?

EDIT: For example, one of the options is for the main menu to look like it did in T1/T2, but I just have the vanilla main menu. Looks nothing like this: https://www.moddb.com/games/thief-de...ist-project141

EDIT 2: Yeah, I'm not sure if this is working. My HUD is still vanilla T3 but the main menu says, "version 1.1.9.1 (T3G-1.3). The fonts look better in books, too. What did I do wrong? I installed T3 on my E: drive, but Sneaky Upgrade (in ProgramData) is in C: for some reason. Could that be the problem?

EDIT 3: Fixed it. Stupidly forgot that you have to enable the various plugins in "Overview."

[snobel]

Here's a few issues I encountered:

Thanks - these are for Thief 3 Gold? I can't fix map issues myself but hopefully Beleg Cúthalion will get back on T3G some day.

Fixed it. Stupidly forgot that you have to enable the various plugins in "Overview."

Well, you're not the first.

[Helegad]

Thanks - these are for Thief 3 Gold? I can't fix map issues myself but hopefully Beleg Cúthalion will get back on T3G some day.

Yep, I had Gold installed. No worries then It was nothing game breaking.

[Gordon Frohman]

Have a few more strange issues.

1.) When picking up a body, Garrett doesn't move his legs except diagonally. It's like he's just... skating, almost.
2.) When loading, my monitor's screen flashes a bunch of times. Like, blinks. It's hard to describe.
3.) When using the bow to lean, the left lean doesn't work, but the right one does.

Not sure if these are related to SU, but thought I'd ask.

[snobel]

First issue is probably the infamous skating bug - it seems to hit some people more than others. You can get back to normal by drawing your bow very briefly (so you won't waste an arrow).

No idea about the second one.

For the third one, try switching off the improved Garrett animations and see if it's then fixed.

[Gordon Frohman]

Can I disable specific animations or do I have to disable them all at once?

EDIT: About the difficulty - first off, does SU fix that difficulty-resetting bug? Second, the two Difficulty settings, one in Minimalist Project -> Tweak Overrides and the other in Sneaky Upgrade -> Tweaks, do those cancel out each other, add to each other, or cancel out the Difficulty settings in Default.ini?

EDIT 2: Also, is carrying a body and crouching supposed to make zero noise? I guess I'm used to T1/T2 where even crouch-creeping would make noise, but is this how it's supposed to be?

[Helegad]

2.) When loading, my monitor's screen flashes a bunch of times. Like, blinks. It's hard to describe.

Classic bug with Ion Storm's UE2 games. It happens in Deus Ex: Invisible War too. Snobel's patch fixed that. You're an exception to the rule, it seems.

[snobel]

Can I disable specific animations or do I have to disable them all at once?

With the animations mod, it's all or nothing.

About the difficulty - first off, does SU fix that difficulty-resetting bug?

The difficulty resetting to Normal between missions has been fixed. Also, the City sections are played using your chosen setting instead of always being on Normal.

Second, the two Difficulty settings, one in Minimalist Project -> Tweak Overrides and the other in Sneaky Upgrade -> Tweaks, do those cancel out each other, add to each other, or cancel out the Difficulty settings in Default.ini?

When you have a mod enabled which has a tweak override, then the mod setting will override () the default value in the Sneaky Upgrade section, which is then not used. If multiple enabled mods want to override the same setting, then the mod which is 'higher up' in the mod stack (as seen on the start page of the tweaker) will win.

Also, is carrying a body and crouching supposed to make zero noise? I guess I'm used to T1/T2 where even crouch-creeping would make noise, but is this how it's supposed to be?

Crouch-walking is silent. The original Minimalist Project changed that, but changing it back was a compromise I had to make when I adapted MP for the SU.

[snobel]

EDIT: Well, it WAS working. The combination of deactivating GSYNC and dgvoodoo worked, but it crashed once or twice when loading current save/starting a new game. For some dumbass reason I removed the d3d8.dll thinking it was just the GSYNC and then it got choppy again, but now it won't load a game or start a new one without CTDing. It doesn't even load the level, just a long black screen and then crash.

EDIT 2: Turning off Direct Load in Troubleshooting has fixed my crashing.

Does the Direct Load option cause crashes only in combination with dgVoodoo - or does it happen even when you're not using a wrapper?

[Gordon Frohman]

Thanks for the info.

Direct Load crashed when used with dgvoodoo. It worked fine without is as far as I can remember. I need dgvoodoo for the game to run smoothly, though.

EDIT: Also, the Difficulty Factor tweaks in both places I mentioned, do they alter the same thing? One is just an override?

[snobel]

Direct load not working with dgVoodoo has been reported before. I'm going to change it so that direct load is automatically disabled when a D3D wrapper is in use.

Yes, it's the same difficulty factor. The value is multiplied onto a bunch of difficulty settings found in Default.ini. When the Minimalist gameplay mod is active, that value is used. Otherwise the default one on the SU Tweaks page is used.

[Linda]

OBS returns a black screen when recording the game... how can I solve this?

[Gordon Frohman]

Is there a way to introduce sound back into crouching? It seems kind of overpowered (not to mention moss arrows useless as far as I can tell), though if there's a good reason for its removal then I guess I'm alright with it.

Also, the difficulty tweaks affecting NPC health, does that affect creature health too, or just humans?

[snobel]

Is there a way to introduce sound back into crouching?

...in the Minimalist Project. I don't remember why it was necessary to remove it again but I'll give it a second look at some point

Also, the difficulty tweaks affecting NPC health, does that affect creature health too, or just humans?

Those settings affect all NPCs as far as I know.

[Gordon Frohman]

Can it be done via editor and if so, how? Here's what you said a page or two back (apparently you removed it from the MP): "The original Minimalist Project changed that, but changing it back was a compromise I had to make when I adapted MP for the SU."

I'd very much like it to be introduced back in and would love to know how to do it. Can you tell me how?

[snobel]

I had a look at what the conflict was: In the MP, silent creeping is removed by increasing Garret's creeping speed slightly. (Walking speed is increased too.) The same setting needs to be manipulated by the 'classic speed' tweak.

To reconcile the two I need to find a better way to implement the classic speed tweak - hopefully possible long-term. For now you can easily get the original MP behaviour back by disabling classic speed and pasting these orginal MP settings into a file named MP-Default_diff.ini in the System folder in the MP gameplay mod:

[T3Settings]
CreepMultiplier=0.48
WalkMultiplier=0.7

(As you've disabled playstyles, the file will not exist - just create it. And of course enable the gameplay mod.)

[Gordon Frohman]

Classic speed in both parts of the SU have been unticked, Gameplay mod is enabled, copy and pasted the code and the filename and put in Minimalist Project > Gameplay > System. Crouching is still silent. Do I need to restart the level? I'm wondering if I created it wrong - I created a regular text file, copy and pasted everything but it didn't change the file to an .ini. So I copied another .ini, removed everything from that and replaced it, and still no dice.

EDIT: wait, there's a folder called PlaystylesDiff in my System folder in the MP folder. That .ini you mentioned is already there, even having disabled the playstyles.

[snobel]

Classic speed in both parts of the SU have been unticked

Unticking the MP tweak override is quite enough.

Crouching is still silent.

Creeping is silent, crouch-walking is not. I thought the original MP made crouch-walking silent too, but I'm not sure now. Need to check it again. But for now there's nothing to do about that.

Do I need to restart the level?

That shouldn't be necessary but in general it's best to test stuff with a new game.

I'm wondering if I created it wrong - I created a regular text file, copy and pasted everything but it didn't change the file to an .ini. So I copied another .ini, removed everything from that and replaced it, and still no dice.

Sounds weird, but what you did should work. If creeping is silent, the file is good.

EDIT: wait, there's a folder called PlaystylesDiff in my System folder in the MP folder. That .ini you mentioned is already there, even having disabled the playstyles.

Yes, that folder is where the file is hidden when playstyles are disabled. When you enable playstyles, the tweaker will move it out of there.

[Gordon Frohman]

Creeping and crouch-walking, I'm confused. Is creeping where you walk slowly and crouching is just moving while crouched? Because the latter is still silent for me. Creeping (if I'm right about what it is - slow walking) is quieter but still produces sound, which is fine.

EDIT: I had Creep and Walk mixed up - creep is a slower walk. That still produces sound.

Basically, I want sound to be made while I am crouched and moving around. Creep seems to produce a quieter sound so evidently the tweak you posted isn't working or, more likely, I'm doing something wrong.

[snobel]

Basically, I want sound to be made while I am crouched and moving around. Creep seems to produce a quieter sound so evidently the tweak you posted isn't working or, more likely, I'm doing something wrong.

It's working as expected and you're not doing anything wrong. Crouch-walking is not silent in the original Minimalist Project either (using the original MP installer and no SU) - I just checked. I don't know how to make crouch-walking silent. Maybe it's not possible, or has side-effects, otherwise New Horizon would probably have done it.

[Gordon Frohman]

Hmm, that is unfortunate. Regardless, I thank you for your help, again.