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Thread: Sneaky Upgrade: Unofficial patch for Thief 3

  1. #1376
    I have a couple of questions, snobel.

    1.) Why exactly are the new animations bugged for me? When I have them enabled, a few issues occur:

    a.) Dragging bodies makes Garrett not walk forward but "skate."
    b.) Leaning left with the bow drawn is busted, but leaning right is okay-ish.
    c.) Drawing the bow looks kind of weird - he draws it but points at a ~30 degree angle first.

    2.) Regarding difficulty tweaks - can I edit settings independently from one another? Say I use the MP difficulty override but perhaps want to increase NPC acuity even more via the default.ini. Would that work, and if not, how can I make it so?

    EDIT: Also, how do I know which difficulty I'm on in the City sections?

    EDIT 2: I thought of a more balanced solution to the silent crouch thing... is there a way to change crouch and creep speed? That way, moss arrow-running-blackjack would be more useful.
    Last edited by Gordon Frohman; 22nd Feb 2019 at 15:49.

  2. #1377
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    1) I haven't noticed a and c, but I tested b, and it's the same with the original version of the animations. So, an original bug that was never fixed. I'd guess a and c are the same. I'll check if I can reproduce it. (The original thread is here, by the way.)

    2) You can change those settings freely, but you need to test them well to see how high you can go.

    If you don't have the SU installed, City sections are on Normal difficulty. With the SU installed, they use the setting from the last proper mission you played - i.e. the last map that let you change the difficulty at the start.

  3. #1378
    Regarding the difficulty tweaks, how can I change them freely, as in what do I edit? I toyed with the default.ini but that made no difference (as far as I could tell - I only changed enemy attack speed as I felt that would be the easiest thing to see a change in). (EDIT: Found default.ini in MP > GUI & Sounds > System and those edits seem to work, although how does it work in conjunction with the Difficulty factor override? Do they stack or does the .ini overwrite it?)

    Also, I posted my second edit right as you posted, so I'll copy and paste here: I thought of a more balanced solution to the silent crouch thing... is there a way to change crouch and creep speed? That way, moss arrow-running-blackjack would be more useful. If there is, how can it be done?

    EDIT: Forgot to ask, is there a comparison between the new animations and old ones? I really cannot tell a difference!
    Last edited by Gordon Frohman; 22nd Feb 2019 at 18:45.

  4. #1379
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon Frohman View Post
    Regarding the difficulty tweaks, how can I change them freely, as in what do I edit? I toyed with the default.ini but that made no difference (as far as I could tell - I only changed enemy attack speed as I felt that would be the easiest thing to see a change in). (EDIT: Found default.ini in MP > GUI & Sounds > System and those edits seem to work
    Leave Default.ini alone - if you want your changes to always be active, copy them from Default.ini to User.ini in the game install root and change them there. If you want to build up a mod of your own based on MP, copy them instead to MP-Default_diff.ini file in the System folder in the MP gameplay mod, and change them there.

    The MP GUI mod ought to have a _diff.ini file instead of a full Default.ini but it has changes to the font definitions and those settings won't work (yet) when in one of those override .ini files.

    although how does it work in conjunction with the Difficulty factor override? Do they stack or does the .ini overwrite it?)
    Your [Difficulty] settings from the .ini file will be multiplied by the difficulty factor.
    .
    Also, I posted my second edit right as you posted, so I'll copy and paste here: I thought of a more balanced solution to the silent crouch thing... is there a way to change crouch and creep speed? That way, moss arrow-running-blackjack would be more useful. If there is, how can it be done?
    Creep speed can be changed. Speed when crouched appears to be about a third of the non-crouched speed, but I don't know if that can be changed.

    Forgot to ask, is there a comparison between the new animations and old ones? I really cannot tell a difference!
    Look down while leaning.

  5. #1380
    Thanks for that. One other small issue.

    So, with food being takeable and edible, do you have an idea as to why it disappears from my inventory upon level transition, and why certain foods like hanging rabbits disappear from my inventory when taking them?

    EDIT: make that two small issues - regarding item stacks. I can carry 5 flashbombs, for example, but T3Ed says the max stacks for flash bombs is 20. Although I'm trying to buy the flash bombs. Seems 5 is the limit. Why is this?

    EDIT 2: third small issue - fall damage. in the thread here (https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83801) the author mentions fall damage but doesn't mention what setting it is or what to tweak. Any idea? It's a bit silly how high Garrett can survive a fall from.
    Last edited by Gordon Frohman; 23rd Feb 2019 at 20:13.

  6. #1381

    SU Font Size Issue

    I am using SU 1.1.9.1. I want to use small fonts on the loading screens, but I do not want to use the MP HUD. Using the sneaky tweaker, I have all optioins but the MP GUI & Sounds enabled. The problem is that no matter what I choose for the "loading screen text size" in the Sneaky Upgrade/Tweaks section - it always is the large font of the original upatched game. If I want small fonts, then I have to enable MP Gui & Sounds.

    Is there a fix or workaround for this?

  7. #1382
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon Frohman View Post
    So, with food being takeable and edible, do you have an idea as to why it disappears from my inventory upon level transition, and why certain foods like hanging rabbits disappear from my inventory when taking them?
    No, sorry - I don't have any knowledge of how New Horizon implented the more advanced MP features.

    regarding item stacks. I can carry 5 flashbombs, for example, but T3Ed says the max stacks for flash bombs is 20. Although I'm trying to buy the flash bombs. Seems 5 is the limit. Why is this?
    That's a limit set by the MP (check the readme, or the MP description in the tweaker). You should be able to change it back in the gamesys, I guess.

    fall damage. in the thread here (https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83801) the author mentions fall damage but doesn't mention what setting it is or what to tweak. Any idea?
    I don't know, but if it's not set in the gamesys it's probably hard-wired in code.

    Btw. would you mind posting questions like these in the T3 Editors' Guild, as they're more editor than SU related?

  8. #1383
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Estel Randir View Post
    I am using SU 1.1.9.1. I want to use small fonts on the loading screens, but I do not want to use the MP HUD. Using the sneaky tweaker, I have all optioins but the MP GUI & Sounds enabled. The problem is that no matter what I choose for the "loading screen text size" in the Sneaky Upgrade/Tweaks section - it always is the large font of the original upatched game. If I want small fonts, then I have to enable MP Gui & Sounds.
    You then have T3 Gold enabled, and T3G has a tweak override for text size (as does MP GUI & Sounds). You need to change it on the T3G tweak overrides page.

  9. #1384

    Minimalist Options Full Integration?

    Is it possible in the future for the MP to basically become fully integrated into the SU? There are many options in the MP that make the game much better. But there are many that I cannot personally live with. If the core (unchangeable) items were able to be turned on, off, or tweaked a bit - that would really give much braoder flexibility to the overall mod. Possibly there could even be a MP "hardcore" checkbox that forces all of the original tweaks for those who really do not want to pick and choose.

    Here is what I am personally running into (some examples):

    #1 MP - player is more exposed when holding a weapon (like)
    #2 MP - removed the guard fatigue (like)
    #3 MP - removed arrow tails without option to keep them or change to the subtle white trail like in the collective texture pack (dislike)
    #4 MP - old style loading screen options & sound (like - even if I do not use them)
    #5 MP - in game default hud (dislike - a bit buggy)
    #6 MP - loot glint distance tweak (like)
    #7 MP - strict limits on inventory items without the ability to tweak them or have 2 - 3 options on the quantities (dislike)
    #8 MP - no HUD scaling option. You have to use the mods default (dislike)
    #9 MP - new playstyles (like)

    There are many core (unchangeable) things about the MP that are fantastic. But there are just as many core (unchangeable) things that I really do not like. #1 & #2 I consider a big improvement. But being forced to take #3, #5, #7, #8 for example, leave me very unsatisfied. I would really just like to pick & choose the parts I like without having to take stuff I do not like to get them. If I knew how to tweak all this stuff myself without having to learn the whole Thief modding, I would sorta create my own custom package for my use.
    Last edited by Estel Randir; 24th Feb 2019 at 16:55.

  10. #1385

    Tweaking The In Game HUD

    I ran across the Theif 3 Tweak Guide & started trying to figure out several other HUD items to tweak the the guide does not cover. Hours later, I have achieved nothing other than a regretful waste of time, lol.

    I am trying to turn the following HUD items off:

    1) When you select a new weapon directly using a hotkey, there is an intermediate graphic that shows the new weapon with a gear around it & text at the bottom. How do I a) turn turn off both the gear & the text or b) turn off the intermediate screen & go straight to the new weapon appearing in the lower left hand corner.

    2) When you scroll through the weapons selection (next, previous) you get the graphic with the 4 scrolling gears. How do I turn that graphic & the sound off but keep the function of scrolling through the weapons? This would be more like the classic thief method of scrolling through weapons & items.

    I was trying to turn off these items in the T3UI.ini file. Several items can be turned off there such as the weapon / item blue glow & the "extra" gear on the gear that I want to remove entirely.

  11. #1386
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Estel Randir View Post
    Is it possible in the future for the MP to basically become fully integrated into the SU? There are many options in the MP that make the game much better. But there are many that I cannot personally live with. If the core (unchangeable) items were able to be turned on, off, or tweaked a bit - that would really give much braoder flexibility to the overall mod. Possibly there could even be a MP "hardcore" checkbox that forces all of the original tweaks for those who really do not want to pick and choose.
    When I adapted MP for the SU I implemented as many features as I could in a way that make them available also without the MP. That's a kind of integration, I guess. But the MP is a project in its own right and will remain a separate unit.

    I'd like to add a general way to tweak gamesys values. If the SU had that, many more MP things could become generally available tweaks (with overrides in the MP). But I haven't even looked at that yet.

    #3 MP - removed arrow tails without option to keep them or change to the subtle white trail like in the collective texture pack (dislike)
    This should be doable, I'll have a look.

    #5 MP - in game default hud (dislike - a bit buggy)
    What are the bugs?

    #7 MP - strict limits on inventory items without the ability to tweak them or have 2 - 3 options on the quantities (dislike)
    This requires gamesys changes.

    #8 MP - no HUD scaling option. You have to use the mods default (dislike)
    Implementing scaling for the MP HUD(s) would be too time-consuming, I'm afraid.

    If I knew how to tweak all this stuff myself without having to learn the whole Thief modding, I would sorta create my own custom package for my use.
    Editing the gamesys is not that hard, but as you can see from that thread, there are caveats.

    I am trying to turn the following HUD items off:
    The T3UI.ini file is the main one you need to edit. Unfortunately it's a long time ago I did that and I don't remember many details, so I can't really offer much general help. If you want to try it, be sure to set the HUD scaling to 1.0 and HUD mirroring to off - otherwise lots of values will be overridden in code and your changes will have no effect. Even then, there are some that you can't change in the file, because they need to be changed in code to adjust the HUD for non-4:3 aspect ratios.

  12. #1387
    "#5 MP - in game default hud (dislike - a bit buggy)

    What are the bugs?"

    For example, when you choose a new weapon - I.E. water arrows, the item graphic shows up for a few seconds, moves to the right (disappears), & the quantity of the item text only stays visible on the left side of the screen. So you have a HUD with some white numbers on the sides. That may be the way the author of the mod intended, but it is rather odd behavior, imo. I personally like the current weapon graphic to stay on screen with no glow, no item identification text (quantity of the item is ok).

    That is why I have been trying to figure out how to turn off TDS gear graphic around the weapon when it is chosen - or turn off the intermediate step between selecting a new weapon & its final "form" resting in the left corner. Basically I was trying to reproduce the classic Thief HUD for weapons without the identifying text underneath it. That HUD simply had the current weapon graphic in the lower left corner with item name under it & the quantity on the upper right side. There was no intermediate screen with the gear, etc everytime you selected a new weapon.

    Thanks for your replies. I just dislike that the original author of the MP made a lot of the core elements take it or leave it. It has a lot of good things to offer but with a lot of grains of salt.

  13. #1388
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    There's a new beta out, with some low-hanging fruit - repeating the description here:

    This beta has the following changes relative to 1.1.9.1:

    Minimalist Project:

    • Fixed a bug where picking up loot with loot glint disabled would trigger a video
    • Restored original speed settings, creep is now non-silent
    • The gameplay part now has optional arrow trails. In the GUI part, the classic health bar and classic-ish lightgem/compass are now optional
    • Fix for orig bugs causing extra playstyles objectives and restrictions to not show up
    • Removed redundant 'do not kill non-combatants' restriction on Ghost
    • Smaller and more evenly sized text on maps, especially with the Fonts mod enabled

    Thief 3 Gold:

    • Removed overriding .sch files to better accommodate unofficial translations
    • Changed a couple of scripts to make it possible to skip through the Pagan and Kurshok missions

    The T3G changes may be optional and off by default in the final release.

    The Fonts mod:

    • Added 'gold' symbol to all fonts (replacing yen)
    • Fixed an issue with disappearing map text - in English, at least. In other locales there may still be a few cases

    Miscellaneous:

    • New tweak to disable health bar auto-hiding (with a tweak override in the MP)
    • New tweak to visually improve the loading quote text (with an override in T3G)
    • New tweak to use a bright mouse cursor. (Done by inverting the colours of the standard cursor)
    • Annoying message box when starting the tweak tool, warning about a few things that seem to confuse people the most
    • Added an option to install the d3d8to9 wrapper DLL
    • 'Direct load' is disabled in fullscreen when a D3D wrapper DLL is in use. (Would cause crashes)
    • Option to use Shift+Ctrl+Alt+End to end the current mission. (Can be disabled in the tweaker)
    • FMSel rebased on 1.1.2, now including Russian translation

    Relative to the last beta, the end-the-mission function is now much improved, and using the same key combo as Thief 1-2. The keypress will just do nothing if you're in a map which can't be ended, so it's now on by default. Also, Minimalist has had some small fixes, mostly related to the edible food.

    Note that because of gamesys changes the savegame version for Minimalist has been bumped - so anybody wanting to use MP savegames from previous stable releases should not update.

    This beta is mainly to test the wrapper DLL, which could potentially improve things on Windows 10. Anybody who's had issues with choppy video or other performance problems, please test if this DLL helps. Note that the option to install it is not selected by default if you already have a local d3d8.dll (e.g. dgVoodoo) in the game install.

    There was a couple of problems with this DLL:

    • The intro videos (shown before the main menu appears) would not show. (Black screen + sound)
    • In windowed mode, alt-tabbing away and later re-activating the game would frequently cause a crash

    Apparently they have been fixed by patching the Thief 3 exe a bit, but if you encounter them anyway, please post about it. Also, try if some of the settings on the troubleshooting page can fix it, most notably turning 'direct load' off.

    So, getting the original MP speed settings to work with the classic speed tweak was easy - because the code needed had already been added for another purpose...

    Instead of an option to use the standard Windows mouse cursor there's now the tweak to invert the colours:



    Less immersion breaking than the Windows cursor, I think, and of course no need to disable the 'frozen cursor' fix, which wouldn't have worked for everybody anyway.
    Last edited by snobel; 20th Mar 2019 at 05:32.

  14. #1389
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Estel Randir View Post
    For example, when you choose a new weapon - I.E. water arrows, the item graphic shows up for a few seconds, moves to the right (disappears), & the quantity of the item text only stays visible on the left side of the screen. So you have a HUD with some white numbers on the sides. That may be the way the author of the mod intended
    Yes - New Horizon went for a minimalist HUD, showing no more than necessary. But the minimalist HUD is not the default so you apparently enabled it in spite of this:

    Basically I was trying to reproduce the classic Thief HUD for weapons without the identifying text underneath it.
    You mean like this:



    Hopefully that's what you see if you enable the classic HUD, otherwise something is not installed right.

    In the beta posted above I tried making an option to enable arrow trails in MP but it didn't work out: It's done through gamesys changes, not with an overriding texture like I thought. I can see what's changed in the gamesys but it's more than simple values and I don't know how to revert it.

  15. #1390
    Snobel,

    Regarding your picture of the classic hud: The weapon only, yes. I do not care for the classic health bars. They are a bit of a clutter, imo. I also like the TDS standard compass / light gem over the original.

    The classic hud with health bars of TDS (graphic & the hidden behavior) & with the TDS light gem /compass & I would be really happy to use the minimalist project.
    Last edited by Estel Randir; 26th Feb 2019 at 19:35.

  16. #1391
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    You can do that quite easily:



    Enable the classic HUD, then open the MP version of T3UI.ini and make the following changes:

    • HealthMeter section (for auto-hiding):
      ClearPos_Y=12
    • HUDWindow section:
      ChildWindow_2=T3UILightGemCompass.ini:LightGem
      ChildWindow_10=T3UILightGemCompass.ini:CompassWindow

    Then open the T3UI.ini file for the minimalist HUD (in HUD\Minimal). Find and copy the following sections into a new file named T3UILightGemCompass.ini in the System folder: LightGem, LightGemLight, LightGem_Case, LightGem_Gem, CompassWindow, CompassActorWindow.

    Finally, to disable the shields, rename or remove the file Content\T3\StaticMeshes\DynamicallyLoaded\HUDhealthgem1A1.tim (still in the MP structure, of course).

    Now that I've done the work, I'll see if a couple of new MP options can be added.

  17. #1392
    That looks really good, snobel. I have been trying to achieve this by going the opposite way around & trying to make the TDS hud look more like the classic hud. It was like running into a brick wall over and over. So many things to turn off that I could not find how to.

    I know you played around with the arrow trails several posts ago, is it actually possible to add them back into the MP (the diminished white trails)? There is a post in the thief 3 tweaks about changing the TDS arrow trail colors. See "Diminished arrow trails" in https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83801#hud. If I knew how to re-add them to the MP step by step I would edit my own game.

    Is it possible to add UI scaling to the MP? Or a quick version of it by manually scaling items in the T3UI (how would you)? Is that something that could be copied from the other mod? I have done very little modding. And that was after spending over a year on the forums of a very active modding community.

  18. #1393
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Estel Randir View Post
    I know you played around with the arrow trails several posts ago, is it actually possible to add them back into the MP (the diminished white trails)? There is a post in the thief 3 tweaks about changing the TDS arrow trail colors. See "Diminished arrow trails" in https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83801#hud.
    Unfortunately, in the MP gamesys, the links between the arrow and the trail have been removed. And I don't know how to restore them. If they could be restored, then making it optional would be easy.

    Is it possible to add UI scaling to the MP? Or a quick version of it by manually scaling items in the T3UI (how would you)
    A scaling factor tweak for the MP is unfortunately not happening - the GUIs are too different from the original one. You can try applying Scale_X/Y/Z values to the ItemCycleWindow and WeaponCycleWindow but you'd have to experiment with the font used there and the font mappings in Default.ini, in order to get smaller text.

  19. #1394
    Snobel, I followed your instructions. I can get my hud to look like yours except the fact that the compass/lightgem are HUGE. They are at least twice the size of yours. I adjusted the scale factors [LightGem] [LightGem_Case] [LightGem_Gem] [CompassActorWindow] after much trial & error, they look fine.

    Two problems: 1) the light gem & compass are the wrong color. They are brassy instead of dark iron like it should be. 2) My hud elements are way too high from the bottom of the screen and not like yours. I played around with the positions, but it had no effect. I do not know what I am doing.

    Scaling used for all 3 light gem elements:
    Scale_X=0.7
    Scale_Y=0.7
    Scale_Z=0.7

    Scaling used for the compass ring:
    Scale_X=0.45
    Scale_Y=0.45
    Scale_Z=0.45

    Scaling added to [WeaponCycleWindow] [ItemCycleWindow]

    Scale_X=0.6
    Scale_Y=0.6
    Scale_Z=0.6

    See the image below for the height & color issue (the image has my custom scaling - before that everything was twice the size of your hud elements):

    Blue-Heron-Inn-02-27-19-20-46-44


    Also, after following your instructions, I cannot disable the MP in the tweaker without the game crashing. I have to rename the MP mod folder also.

  20. #1395
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Estel Randir View Post
    I can get my hud to look like yours except the fact that the compass/lightgem are HUGE. They are at least twice the size of yours. [...] Two problems: 1) the light gem & compass are the wrong color. They are brassy instead of dark iron like it should be. 2) My hud elements are way too high from the bottom of the screen and not like yours. I played around with the positions, but it had no effect. I do not know what I am doing.
    There must be some changes left over from your previous experiments. I've added health bar and lightgem options to the MP. Better wait for a new beta later today - install that and verify that you can get the HUD from my screenshot above. Then you can further customize that.

    Also, after following your instructions, I cannot disable the MP in the tweaker without the game crashing. I have to rename the MP mod folder also.
    In light of this, better uninstall the SU completely. Back up the files you edited first, if you want them for reference. After uninstalling, remove the C:\ProgramData\Thief 3 Sneaky Uprade folder if there's still stuff in there. If you're on Steam, let it verify the game before reinstalling the new beta.

  21. #1396
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2011
    Location: Cornwall, England
    Quote Originally Posted by snobel View Post
    Unfortunately, in the MP gamesys, the links between the arrow and the trail have been removed. And I don't know how to restore them. If they could be restored, then making it optional would be easy.
    If you can open the MP gamesys in the editor, and providing the swoosh effects haven't been removed entirely, there's no reason why you can't recreate the links as shown below.
    Code:
    Backup your current Editor's Gamesys file.
    Copy the MP Gamesys into the Editors folder
    Start the Editor and open the Gamesys Manager (Actor Classes Browser).
    Browse to WorldObj \ InventoryObject \ PowerUp
    Alt-click Arrow and choose Show Links
    Click the Add Link button
    Choose Swoosh from the list, but do NOT click the OK button.
    Back in the Actor Classes Browser, Browse to Metaproperty \ SwooshEffectObject and click the ArrowASwooshEffect
    Back in the Create Link Window, click the Use Current Archetype button next to the empty TO: field.
    Now click OK
    Repeat from the Add Link step above to add the ArrowBSwooshEffect
    Click the DONE button on the Object Links Window. 
    Back in the Actor Classes Browser, do the following three actions (Not sure you need to do all three, but I always do, just to be sure);
    File => Save Selected Package
    File => Export Changed Scripts
    File => Export Current Class
    Copy the now modified Gamesys file back into the MP version and see if it works.
    If the Swoosh Effects have been deleted it may be possible to undelete by clicking View => Show Deleted Archetypes, then browse to the correct locations and if they're there (In bold), Alt-click them and choose Undelete.

    Hopefully, that'll fix it, unless I'm missing something.

  22. #1397
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    Thanks - I'll try that!

    In the meantime, here's a beta with the new MP options.

    Edit: Beta removed, see below...
    Last edited by snobel; 28th Feb 2019 at 15:05.

  23. #1398
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    Yep - it worked!

    ProjectileArrow needed the same treatment, but then things were back to normal. And an optional fully transparent texture will make the trails go away.

    The new beta is here. Note that with the gamesys changes the MP savegame version has been bumped - so anybody wanting to use existing MP savegames should not update.

    Edit: Arrgh, forgot something...
    Last edited by snobel; 28th Feb 2019 at 16:39.

  24. #1399
    Just a thought about future minor / for fun tweaks. Things like an option to turn off certain in game text descriptions. For example, when you choose a new weapon, water arrows for example - the "water arrows" text appears underneath the arrows for a few seconds. I like keeping the current weapon icon on screen, but I do not need the text telling me what it is - so I turn that text off myself. That might not work so well for items when you pick up a special key.

  25. #1400
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    That's probably too specific for a general tweak, but more options for the HUD would be nice...

    Here's the beta with the new MP option for arrow trails.

    Edit: Updated the original beta release post.
    Last edited by snobel; 1st Mar 2019 at 03:32.

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