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Thread: Sneaky Upgrade: Unofficial patch for Thief 3

  1. #1451
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    I tried your "St. Edgar's Church 04-05-17 22_55_28" save with the latest beta SU on a clean T3 install - enabling only the two MP parts and T3G (version 1.2), otherwise using default options. I also changed the content of SaveGame.txt to "T3G-1.2-MP-1.4.3" to make the save visible.

    After loading the save I went and grabbed the holy symbol, ran across to the factory and frobbed the slot. The mechanism activated just fine. It sounds like this wouldn't work for you?

    If that's the case, and you're sure you haven't disabled refresh rate / frame rate limiting, then you'll probably have to do the uninstall/clean-up/reinstall procedure again. After that, try to reproduce what I did above, and start by testing that particular save on a vanilla install. You should only copy in your customized files when the saves work on vanilla.

  2. #1452
    Quote Originally Posted by snobel View Post
    Thanks - that's a lot of saves. I'll have a look, but I may need the names of saves where I can test the issues you mention here - getting the Jacknall's Paw and inserting the holy symbol?


    Did you copy the saves from another game install where they work, or did you get this information from screenshots?
    The saves that I linked are from a game I played in 2017. They do not have anything to do with the jacknall's paw issue, etc. I am not worried about the paw issue, etc with these saves. They work fine on the old thief install. The paw issue I will investigate further on a clean install later.

    The 2017 saves are from thief 3 that is installed on my main computer. All the tweaking I have been doing is in a virtual machine. The two games are completely separate. The 2017 saves will not work in the thief 3 version I am playing around with in my virtual machine.

  3. #1453
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    Ah, OK.

    Quote Originally Posted by Estel Randir View Post
    The 2017 saves will not work in the thief 3 version I am playing around with in my virtual machine.
    What exactly do you mean by "will not work"? If your VM Thief 3 is using a recent SU, then they should work, unless you've made gamesys changes?

  4. #1454
    Quote Originally Posted by snobel View Post
    Ah, OK.


    What exactly do you mean by "will not work"? If your VM Thief 3 is using a recent SU, then they should work, unless you've made gamesys changes?
    If I take the new version of SU, delete all files in the savegame folders "SaveGames-T3G-1.3-MP-1.4.3" OR "SaveGames-T3G-1.3" Then place all the files in the folder that I linked you into either of those directories above, the new SU will not recognize that they exist.
    Last edited by Estel Randir; 17th Mar 2019 at 17:41.

  5. #1455
    Quote Originally Posted by snobel View Post
    There's a new beta out, in the usual place.


    I've done this for the few cases needed to make it possible to turn the MP Inventory.sch file into a 'diff' containing just the MP-specific additions. This was done by moving the formatting from that file to TextPrefix entries in T3UI.ini for the following sections: ItemDescWindow, WeaponDescWindow, StoreInfoWindow and InventoryWindowCurrItemText. So those entries must be copied into a customized T3UI.ini. As a side effect it's now possible to have different formatting for the item and weapon texts in the HUD, inventory and store.
    Yes, Yes! This works nicely. Much more flexibility now. Thank you! The only problem is the added edibles like bread, cheese, etc now have no names. they are blank.

  6. #1456
    Hey Snobel, i've been following this thread and getting emails about it for years despite not having the time to play. Thanks for you work Just curious, any chance of a substantial VR mod for Thief 3 do you think?

  7. #1457
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Estel Randir View Post
    If I take the new version of SU, delete all files in the savegame folders "SaveGames-T3G-1.3-MP-1.4.3" OR "SaveGames-T3G-1.3" Then place all the files in the folder that I linked you into either of those directories above, the new SU will not recognize that they exist.
    But did you try what I described above - this is the important part:

    Quote Originally Posted by snobel View Post
    I also changed the content of SaveGame.txt to "T3G-1.2-MP-1.4.3" to make the save visible.
    When you have mods enabled which are not savegame compatible with the original game, those mods and their savegame versions are listed in the SaveGame.txt file within each savegame folder. If the currently enabled mods don't match, then the saves are removed from the in-game list.

    Your saves were made before it was determined that MP saves needed to be kept separate, so the SaveGame.txt files only contain info about T3G. To the newer SU versions this looks like the saves were made with only T3G enabled, so as you also have MP Gameplay enabled, the saves won't show. But if you add the MP info and select T3G 1.2 in the tweaker, then the saves should become visible. You of course need to copy the edited SaveGame.txt into every savegame you want to use, and the folder should be named SaveGames-T3G-1.2-MP-1.4.3.

    Quote Originally Posted by Estel Randir View Post
    The only problem is the added edibles like bread, cheese, etc now have no names. they are blank.
    Really?! I'll have a look at that.

    Quote Originally Posted by noisycricket View Post
    Hey Snobel, i've been following this thread and getting emails about it for years despite not having the time to play. Thanks for you work Just curious, any chance of a substantial VR mod for Thief 3 do you think?
    Not from me, I'm afraid. I'm not aware of other projects on that front either, although it would be very cool...

  8. #1458
    Quote Originally Posted by snobel View Post
    When you have mods enabled which are not savegame compatible with the original game, those mods and their savegame versions are listed in the SaveGame.txt file within each savegame folder. If the currently enabled mods don't match, then the saves are removed from the in-game list.

    Your saves were made before it was determined that MP saves needed to be kept separate, so the SaveGame.txt files only contain info about T3G. To the newer SU versions this looks like the saves were made with only T3G enabled, so as you also have MP Gameplay enabled, the saves won't show. But if you add the MP info and select T3G 1.2 in the tweaker, then the saves should become visible. You of course need to copy the edited SaveGame.txt into every savegame you want to use, and the folder should be named SaveGames-T3G-1.2-MP-1.4.3.
    I just tried that for each of the saves I linked. They all show up now. I played with 5 of them for several minutes & they worked fine for the few minutes I tested.

    Quote Originally Posted by snobel View Post
    Really?! I'll have a look at that.
    Yeah, I tried it with the default T3UI.ini & the labels are missing for the edibles. Out of curiosity, why did you leave "flashbombs" in the Inventory.sch (all the other items you removed)?

    When I changed the font color in [StoreInfoWindow], two lines of text changed color, but the third did not. The "L-Mouse Buy" text remains unchanged. See below:




    On a side note, the T3UI.ini for the minimalist project is a wall of text. The original T3UI.ini is fomatted nicely. To clean it up, I take the MP T3UI.ini & copy the contents into Wordpad. Then I copy it back into the MP T3UI.ini (overwriting everything) & save. That makes it much easier to modify.

  9. #1459

    Game Breaking Issue!

    Snobel,

    I have finally tracked down what is causing my issues with frobbing special items like inserting the holy symbol & stamped gear, & looting Jacknall's Paw. It is literally game breaking. In the Default.ini there is an option:

    // For purposes of frobbing
    [FrobOptions]
    ;0 => Raycast vs. visible geometry only (fastest)
    ;1 => Scale bounding box by frob bias (no add'l memory, slightly slower)
    ;2 => If frobBias is 0, raycast vs. visible geometry. Otherwise, scale
    ; bounding box by frob bias (no add'l memory, slightly slower)
    ;3 => Create unique triangles for each object and extrude by their
    ; frob bias * normal (most memory, most accurate, slowest)
    FrobBiasRaycastType=2 <------------------------------------------------- If you change this to 3 it will break many "frobbable" items in the game.
    MinEdgeSize=16
    MaxSizeForSlowdown=16


    Items that it breaks are things like being able to target (frob) Jacknall's Paw at all (I spent an hour trying from all angles to loot it - you cannot), insert special items to complete quests (Holy Symbol), switches in game like light switches or levers, etc.
    Last edited by Estel Randir; 18th Mar 2019 at 23:47.

  10. #1460
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Estel Randir View Post
    Yeah, I tried it with the default T3UI.ini & the labels are missing for the edibles.
    I've found the cause of this, and it should be fixable. Thanks for reporting it.

    Out of curiosity, why did you leave "flashbombs" in the Inventory.sch (all the other items you removed)?
    The French text contains an abbreviation that is not in the original. So I guess whoever helped translate MP specific text into French noticed a problem and corrected it.

    When I changed the font color in [StoreInfoWindow], two lines of text changed color, but the third did not. The "L-Mouse Buy" text remains unchanged.
    It's probably another hard-coded addition. IIRC the text is white also without MP?

    On a side note, the T3UI.ini for the minimalist project is a wall of text.
    Looks like those files somehow got converted to unix line endings. I'll change it back. (Are you using an older version of Notepad? It's the only text editor I know which would get confused.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Estel Randir View Post
    FrobBiasRaycastType=2 <---- If you change this to 3 it will break many "frobbable" items in the game.
    I'll make a note of that in case frob problems come up again.

  11. #1461
    Quote Originally Posted by snobel View Post
    It's probably another hard-coded addition. IIRC the text is white also without MP?
    I turned off MP to check, yes still white.


    Quote Originally Posted by snobel View Post
    Looks like those files somehow got converted to unix line endings. I'll change it back. (Are you using an older version of Notepad? It's the only text editor I know which would get confused.)
    I am using whatever version of Notepad that comes with Win10 version 1803. This has been an issue in other games as well.

  12. #1462
    Is there anyway to alter the guard respawn rate in the city sections? It gets pretty silly when you blackjack a guard and the same guard respawns 2 min later & you gotta blackjack him again.

  13. #1463
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    There's a new beta out, fixing the missing food text in MP, and also moving the food texts and eating sound to the Gameplay part where they belong. So there's changes in MP, but not in Default.ini or T3UI.ini (except for line endings).

    The other changes of note are a much improved end-the-mission function and a Russian translation for FMSel.

    Quote Originally Posted by Estel Randir View Post
    I am using whatever version of Notepad that comes with Win10 version 1803. This has been an issue in other games as well.
    Microsoft finally improved Notepad on this point some months ago. So it's fixed in Win10 1809. (Btw. if you don't know Notepad++ I'll take the opportunity to highly recommend it.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Estel Randir View Post
    Is there anyway to alter the guard respawn rate in the city sections? It gets pretty silly when you blackjack a guard and the same guard respawns 2 min later & you gotta blackjack him again.
    This would probably be in the gamesys, or in triggerscripts, or possibly in code. If it's one of the former you'd have to fire up T3Ed, but it should be possible.

  14. #1464
    I have been playing around with the new beta.

    1) I noticed that you removed Quotes.sch from MP & Thief3 Gold. Did you change anything in them? I have added blank lines to lower the text on the loading screen to have a better vertical position.

    2) The name text does show up for the new edibles now for this new beta.

    3) You added / separated a heck of a lot more text labels in the T3UI than just for item & weapon descriptions you mentioned 2 betas ago. You also added them for all map overlays & moved them from the Default.ini. That was a lot of modifying. It helped clean up the map fonts. They are smaller and fit in the map better.
    a) Is there anyway to make the maps bigger without having to resize them in a program like photoshop, etc?
    b) What difference does this make in the map overlays if the ScaleText is set to True? See below:

    [UniqueMapOverlayTextWindow1]
    Type=MetaReaderTextWindow
    Placement_X=LEFT
    Placement_Y=TOP
    Selectable=FALSE
    Active=VISIBLE
    ScaleText=False <--------- What difference does this make if set to true?
    TextPrefix=

    4) Did you find out where to fix the color issue here:

    Quote Originally Posted by Estel Randir View Post
    When I changed the font color in [StoreInfoWindow], two lines of text changed color, but the third did not. The "L-Mouse Buy" text remains unchanged. See below:

    5) One thing that would help this game is to add in a few black or dark background to screens like the load / save screens. For example instead of having the "Are You Sure?" text & two buttons floating on top of the list of save text in the background, the new popup window should be on a black screen. The list of saves would appear again when you cancel the load / save.
    Last edited by Estel Randir; 21st Mar 2019 at 00:45.

  15. #1465
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Estel Randir View Post
    1) I noticed that you removed Quotes.sch from MP & Thief3 Gold. Did you change anything in them? I have added blank lines to lower the text on the loading screen to have a better vertical position.
    The Quotes file was not in MP, I think - at least not since the split? The one in T3G had improved formatting, but that's done (optionally) in code now, so the file was removed.

    3) a) Is there anyway to make the maps bigger without having to resize them in a program like photoshop, etc?
    The chance is not good, because the map window is manipulated quite a bit to adjust for aspect ratio etc. Resizing the textures will probably not work either.

    b) What difference does this make in the map overlays if the ScaleText is set to True?
    When it's enabled, a smaller font will be used in order to fit the text within the area defined by Width and Height. But it's very quirky, sometimes the text ends up partially missing instead. So I disabled it and adjusted the size and positions of text boxes as necessary.

    4) Did you find out where to fix the color issue here:
    I don't think you can, except by modifying the exe in a hex editor.

    5) One thing that would help this game is to add in a few black or dark background to screens like the load / save screens. For example instead of having the "Are You Sure?" text & two buttons floating on top of the list of save text in the background, the new popup window should be on a black screen.
    You may be able to achieve something like that by changing the entries in MetaGameLoadSaveConfirmPopUpWindow - and, probably, make copies of MetaGameLight_1-4 under different names and change those as well.

  16. #1466
    New Member
    Registered: May 2005
    awesome stuf, thx!

  17. #1467
    Quote Originally Posted by snobel View Post
    You may be able to achieve something like that by changing the entries in MetaGameLoadSaveConfirmPopUpWindow - and, probably, make copies of MetaGameLight_1-4 under different names and change those as well.
    Sadly, this does not achieve what i was trying to do. This simply sheds a colored light onto the popup screen elements. What is needed is an actual new fullscreen background that is dark & will cover the window that the popup window is on top of & then have the new window on the new background. Oh well.

  18. #1468
    Quote Originally Posted by snobel View Post
    The Quotes file was not in MP, I think - at least not since the split? The one in T3G had improved formatting, but that's done (optionally) in code now, so the file was removed.
    Can you elaborate on this? How was the formatting improved, and what do you mean its not optionally done in code?

  19. #1469
    a) The following windows in the T3UI.ini do not respond to font changes even though there is a text prefix. They will respond to color changes to the text.

    [LargePopUpBodyTextWindow]
    [LargePopUpTitleTextWindow]
    [LargePopUpBodyTextWindow]

    I also added the following window to seperate the "are you sure you want to quit" popup window from other items such as zone confirmations and end mission confirmation popup windows (the vertical position makes no sense when using MP main menu option):

    [LargePopUpBodyTextWindowQuit]

    TextPrefix=

    They and several others are linked to the following in the Default.ini:
    Papyrus14__tp=oldthief_font,0.27,0.80

    If you change the font in the text prefix, nothing happens. They still use the one in Deafult.ini.

    b) I also noticed that the Load / Save popup menu [UniqueSaveWindow] [UniqueLoadWindow] have no font text prefix & also use the same font as in part a).
    Also the list of all the savegames is tied to the same font as in a).

  20. #1470
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Estel Randir View Post
    Can you elaborate on this? How was the formatting improved, and what do you mean its not optionally done in code?
    The file had break and right-adjustment tags inserted before the attribution part of each entry, like this:


    That way they better match the intro videos, both the classic ones and mensch's T3 intros. But those tags are now inserted by code, if you enable the "better loading quote formatting" tweak. It's off by default, but if you installed T3G from the latest beta, then a tweak override will have enabled it. You can switch it off there if it interferes with your customization.

    Quote Originally Posted by Estel Randir View Post
    a) The following windows in the T3UI.ini do not respond to font changes even though there is a text prefix.
    Then they're probably more cases of font tags being prepended in code, unfortunately taking priority over a tag in the TextPrefix entry.

    b) I also noticed that the Load / Save popup menu [UniqueSaveWindow] [UniqueLoadWindow] have no font text prefix & also use the same font as in part a). Also the list of all the savegames is tied to the same font as in a).
    More of the same, I'm afraid.

  21. #1471
    I do not think the advanced formatting is behaving correctly. It is simply breaking the text at any hyphen whether it makes sense or not. See the examples below:




    find capital one atm

    The first hyphenated text should not be on a separate line.

  22. #1472
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    Using the original Quotes file, your examples do work for me. Your customized file must be breaking the regex. If you moved the text down by inserting actual newline characters in the quotes, try replacing them with <br> tags. That works for me too.

  23. #1473
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Sheffield, UK
    Would an HTML non breaking hyphen code ("&#8209;" = "‑") work to stop the text breaking ?

  24. #1474
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    Those tags you can use in T3 readables are probably more inspired by HTML than actual HTML - also, there's not much unicode in T3. So it probably won't work.

  25. #1475
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Sheffield, UK
    It was just a thought

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