Tips 'n Tricks

[Ricebug]

When it comes to Drom-ed-ing, I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I've learned a few tricks that may help others. I'd like to see what the Master Builders out there (Yandros, R Soul, Haplo, etc) do to make their editing easier.

TrolPts
Create and copy the points in a small cluster or line and then link them. Once they're linked, then spread them out over the map. Click on the AI first and then create the TrolPt. This places it exactly where the AI can "reach" it. Where you have hills and valleys, clone the AI and do the same thing and then delete that AI.

Loading Maps
As you know, Dromed will default to the last folder it saved to when you open a file. At times, I'll have up to 3 copies of Dromed running, and it's a pain to manually navigate to the correct paths. I added this line to all of the Startup.cmd files:

load_file X:/foldername/missxx.mis.

The Fam Directory
I keep a sub-dir in each of my texture directories with the TGA equivalent of the game textures. Then, if I have to add a new texture, I re-run the files through Bright, using NV's batch processor. Once the game is ready for beta, simply delete the TGA folders before zipping.

Who else out there has some tips and tricks?

[R Soul]

Loading Maps
As you know, Dromed will default to the last folder it saved to when you open a file. At times, I'll have up to 3 copies of Dromed running, and it's a pain to manually navigate to the correct paths.

There's probably a registry setting that associates a folder with an .exe name, so rename each .exe. My Thief2 folder has Dromed.exe, and my ThiefG folder has DromedG.exe.

I use the startup.cmd file to run the load_mission command without any file. This brings up the Open window so I can be sure I won't accidentally save.


Checking new objects
If I want to have a look at a custom object without mixing its files with existing ones, I create this folder structure:
Thief2\something\obj\ (+txt or txt16 for textures).
In Darkinst.cfg I add the following to the end of the resname_base line:
+.\something

I then extract the object to Thief2\something\obj. I can look at it in Dromed while keeping its files isolated. Some objects come with lots of textures, or their names are obscure, so this makes it easy for me to keep my main obj folder clean. If I like the object, I can transfer it, and if not I can delete all of its files.


Posting on this forum
We all know TTLG sometimes has issues, and I tend to notice these while I'm waiting for a reply to be posted. Before submitting a post, I copy it to the clipboard in case the forum dies. Saves typing it out again.

[darthsLair]

Moving the starting point to the area of work.

I always click on a terrain brush to get the x,y,z coordinates, then move my starting point to the area I am working in. This way when I am done with my work in that area, I can just go into game mode to check my work. I go from area to area doing the same thing, and then when the map is ready for it's first beta-test, I move it to where the game will start. I then check the monolog for any new errors. This is an advantage of keeping errors down to a minimum. Build, go into game, then check monolog, at least every few brushes that are added. Nothing worse than being stiffled in the end with hundreds of errors, and crashes. The compounding of errors is the worst.
The advantage of this, is that the builder doesn't have to waste alot of time repeating unnecessary movement.



Out of room error's made easy to investigate.
When the monolog tells me I have an ai out of room, or if the player is out of room, I save the monolog as Monolog522012723pm (The date for that day 5/2/2012 7:23pm) Then print it, then use a yellow hilighting marker to go down the list using the x,y,z coordinates of the out of room ai or player using vm_teleport x,y,z I zoom all the way in, and note whether the camera is above or below the roombrush. I always make sure the blue line is below the white terrain line. Then simply go into game again, look at the monolog to make sure the error is gone. Everytime, I save a monolog, I pack it away in my recent saved folder for future reference. This is handy, because it can be referred to when necessary.

[Ricebug]

Posting on this forumWe all know TTLG sometimes has issues, and I tend to notice these while I'm waiting for a reply to be posted. Before submitting a post, I copy it to the clipboard in case the forum dies. Saves typing it out again.

Heh-heh...a trick I learned long ago. Nothing worse than crafting a detailed response, only to have a crash when you submit it. Sometimes, I'll type it in a word processor and then paste it.

[Yandros]

Moving the starting point to the area of work.

You do know about persistent_player_pos don't you? It enters game mode wherever the camera is in the 3D view. I also added that command to my StartUp.cmd file, and then it's toggled on by default whenever I launch Dromed, and I never have to move my starting point unless I need to.

I also am in the habit of always copying my response to the clipboard (just quickly hit Ctrl+A, Ctrl+C) before clicking Submit.

I'll try to think of a few things I do and post them here later.

[darthsLair]

You do know about persistent_player_pos don't you? It enters game mode wherever the camera is in the 3D view. I also added that command to my StartUp.cmd file, and then it's toggled on by default whenever I launch Dromed, and I never have to move my starting point unless I need to.

I also am in the habit of always copying my response to the clipboard (just quickly hit Ctrl+A, Ctrl+C) before clicking Submit.

I'll try to think of a few things I do and post them here later.

Yes, I know about persistent_player_pos, and I used to use it. The reason I like moving the starting point, is when I close dromed, and re-open it, I am returned to the starting point where I was last working. I generally process every three brushes, and I always close dromed after processing. I used to use vm_teleport x,y,z from my starting point location, but it is easier just to move the starting point for me. Finish up one area at a time, then relocate.

[R Soul]

Comparing old and new poly counts
If I get a high poly count when looking in a certain direction, I place a marker, rotated to face that direction, and use cam_to_brush to place the camera there. I go back to game mode and note the poly count. After editing the terrain, I use cam_to_brush to get back to the marker to confirm that the poly count has been lowered and I'm not just looking in a slightly different direction.

Finding the source of a high poly count
The render_backward command is useful. It draws the same polys you'd normally get, but in reverse order, so things that were obscured will now be in full view. I had this problem and solved it by lowering the sky so that it touched the rooftops between the camera and the unnecessary polys.

[Daraan]

Yesterday I wanted to post the thing with the persistent_player_pos in the startup. But I thought one line would be a bit less.
And I think its one of the best commands together with editorcam_from_game (in user.cfg) other valuable entries for the user.cfg (im not sure which are included from start and which are added with the toolkit)

DromEd settings in User.cfg

;

;hilights invalid roombrushes when calculating room database
check_rooms

;snaps multibrushes to grid, if grid is enabled
vbrush_snap

;stop the player from dying in editor mode
no_endgame

;streams debug info to monolog.txt in you main Thief directory
monolog

;uncomment next line and add a valid mode to enlarge DromEd window. Valid modes: '800, 600', '1024, 768' [must be one below your max solution]
;edit_screen_size 800,600
edit_screen_size 1024,768

Maybe there are other ones which are usefull

btw. Toolkit

Keybinds

with the toolkit there are also some( just some?) new keybinds... take a look and learn new things. (pff bad if you don't have an English keyboard...)

(Klick for fullscreen)

With F8 (cam to brush btw.) you can automatically jump to the selected brush/object. After DromEd start always the latest(highest Id) object is selected - and mostly its close to your working place...
I'm not sure but can you manually set an Objects Id?

Ctrl+F1-F12 easy eax setup
F6 - edit obj
Alt+Ctrl - Speed up player ingame
Strg+Ins - Insert Obj etc (see below)
....
h,j,k,l set brush type

Placing Objects with nice coordinates
I don't like the click and drag mehode to place obects because mostly you have to edit 2 dimensions to get nice integer or nice digits comma.
If you select object in the Object Hierarchy click create, select a brush and not strg+ins now the object has the same coordinates as the brush.
And now you can move/rotate it very easily with the numblock - or the alt+QWE...-methode

What is inserted depens on which category brush, room, obj, light you have selected

[Ricebug]

Can you re-size that graphic? 640 is the limit on these forums.

[Yandros]

Now it's 800, they updated it a few years ago.

[Zontik]

When I have to link long path via AI_Patrol link, I write all TrolPTs' IDs on a piece of paper in path order. Then I add link from the 1st patrol point to 2d and DON'T close the window with links list. I press "Add" button again - 1st field with flavor is already filled - and type IDs for 2 (second field) and 3 (3d field) patrol points. Then I confirm my choose. New link DOESN't appear in the window (because this window is for 1st patrol point only), but link is set up correct. Then I press "Add" again and add links for 3 and 4 points, 4 and 5, etc. If you are careful enough, you will finish process much faster than if you would find and click every next patrol point and fill all 3 fields instead of 2.

[Ricebug]

Zontik, that is a really cool idea. I've been keeping notes on these tricks. Now if I can figure out one to prevent me from accidentally dorking up a month's worth of work by doing something stupid, I'd be happy. I've became a back-up fanatic.

[LarryG]

In my experience, backing up your work cannot be done too often. Here is a small portion of the backups I made for Finals as I worked on the mission. My naming convention is xxxx_ddda[+] where xxxx is the mission identifier, ddd is the number of DromEding days, a is the sequential save (first save of the day = a, second = b, etc.). Capital letters indicate that the save was made immediately after optimization. A plus sign is appended to indicate that objects that would interfere with AI pathing were moved out of the way before optimization and then back again after. As you can see from the slider bar at the bottom of the image, there are lots more saves not shown. In all, for Finals I had well over 8000 saves spanning 3 years (but only (!) 690 actual DromEding days). The naming convention and religiously saving my work every 15-30 minutes really helped me recover from disaster on several occasions.

[Ricebug]

My method's a little simpler. Day one is miss00.mis. Throughout the whole day, that's the only file. Day two is miss01.mis, and so on. Rarely have I ever had to go back to earlier saves, thanks to my excellent *cough* understanding *choke* of the editor.

All kidding aside, my problem is forgetfulness. At 60, I'm aware that I'm not as sharp anymore. Here's an example: I keep a zipped folder of the entire mission, in this case, the Strife thing. Everything in there is fully compiled and playable. As it gets updated, I slide a copy into the Thief 2 FMs folder, where I can playtest it through the actual game. That's two backups.

I have a working folder, called Strife. I also have the thing in the Thief 2 folder, where I playtest it. During this time, I don't play any other FMs. So 2 are zipped, and 2 copies are unzipped. That's 4 copies.

Here's the screwup: I needed to unzip Strife III to compare some stuff. I slid it over onto--guess what--my Strife campaign work folder, overwriting a bunch of files in the blink of an eye. Curse that Yes to All button. Then, RL enters in with some emergency, making me forget what I did. I stupidly added the bad files to my zipped campaign folder, then copied that over the one in the Thief 2 directory. Now I've got 3 screwed up folders.

Fortunately, I still have enough brain cells to fix the thing with the one remaining good directory. Sometimes, I'll have to go back and re-do some things.

Story of my life. I used to have a 140 IQ, but age, ex-wives, and kids, have knocked that down a bit.

[LarryG]

Oh. I forgot to mention that I have a nightly automatic backup which copies over any changed files from my working disk to two backup disks so that they are effectively clones of the first. I have a third backup disk that I update only monthly (or when I remember to do so). That's intended as a fail-safe to allow recovery from any nightly perpetuation of an unnoticed screw-up.Then I have Norton doing incremental backups to another, usb connected, drive. Not a perfect system, but so far it has worked. Knock wood. I've just lost too much data to hard drive failures over the years that I have become extremely paranoid about it.

[Daraan]

Loading on Startup
And again this topic yesterday I looked a bit arround in the command/cmd.text and found a few valuable things. For example file_menu it bring up a dialog with Load/Save game and Clear world.
put file_menu in your startup.cmd and you can save a little bit time at dromed start.

Other Commands
I also found a few other commands which could be usefull.
•Beside floor_object there also ceil_ and wall_object (Can also be found under Edit ->)
• auto_roombuild - maybe you like it that the roomdb is automatically remade if you insert a new room.
• scale_sim_time (float) - slowmotion please - maybe if you want to make a video or something.
• loadout - if you want to check your starting inventory and shop. USE IN GAME MODE
• max_polys - don't hope to much this command sets up the limit of the max polys rendered but dromed will still chrash. It's usefull if you want to take a screenshot of a complex scenery and parts are already disappearing. This command can give you a few (not much) extra polys.
• test_book <stringfile,art> test a stringfile with different arts (if you don't want to use ParcheEd) USE IN GAME MODE

tnh made the CommandControl with it you can execute multiple commands on TurnOn and Off. But in thief.exe the most commands are not available.
test_book works also in thief.exe so if you want to force the player to read something, can also be absued to show an image to the player.
automap and some others are also possible but are not usefull
for example with player_halt,disable_input(tnh), select_weapon, use_weapon you could force the player to attack or use an item but how much sense that makes is up to you.

[R Soul]

But in thief.exe the most commands are not available.

Bring up the console in Thief2.exe and use the dump_cmds command to get a list of in-game commands.

[Ricebug]

I never knew T2 had an in-game console. What are the keystrokes?

[R Soul]

Same as dromed game mode, shift and ;

[Zontik]

Am I the only who use Ctrl-P ???

[Ricebug]

Am I the only (one) who use(s) Ctrl-P ???

I use it all the time. It's handy if you take NV's advice to customize the loc_hist.hst file and then setting the properties to Read Only. That way, you have all of your favorite commands at your fingertips.

Long strings such as the min and max params for maps are so much easier if you use CTRL-P.

[Zontik]

1. Thank you for correction.
2. Thank you for the next tip.

[LarryG]

I just learned this morning how to use the RUN command to execute a link_objs.cmd file stored in the base DromEd directory. I used it to establish a series of ParticleAttachement links between archetype objects in the hierarchy and plan to use it to automate TPath links and AI_Patrol links as well. My link_objs.cmd file just has the link_objs src dst flavor command repeated on each row of the text file. In my case, I wanted to have the same particle attached to 70 objects, and doing it manually was a pain. This took only a fraction of the time to set up and execute.

Now if there was just a way to automate setting the data values for the ParticleAttachement links to the right vhots ....

[R Soul]

If you look at the Torch archetype you'll see that it has a TorchBasic metaproperty. The particle effects are linked to the metaprop rather than the archetype.

All you need to do is link your particles to a custom metaprop. Set the link data and you can then add the metaprop to the archetypes of the objects that require it.

edit: this only seems to work for new instances of those archetypes, so it's no better than linking them straight to the archetype. Adding the metaprop to the archetype, then finding and replacing all instances might be quicker than setting up each link.

[LarryG]

I'm actually adding the ParticleAttachement links between archetypes not concrete objects, so the amount of work is the same to set up the data values, I think. And you have to set TPath and AI_Patrol links between concrete objects. This method works for that too.