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Thread: CDP RED making a Cyberpunk game apparently

  1. #226
    I recently started playing it too (on PC), looking OK so far though I've seen nothing groundbreaking really. Still too early for me to judge re: mechanics and story, but it hasn't been glitchy or anything in the few hours I've had with it. Overall first impressions are good, it's promising.

    It takes 44 gigs on my drive though, holy shit. I have a hard time wrapping my head around that. My first computer had a 4 gig HDD

  2. #227
    Level 10,000 achieved
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Finland
    44GB is actually on the slim end for a modern AAA game, but yeah, installation sizes are crazy these days. I appreciate whenever a dev manages to hold back on size. When I saw that Dying Light 2 was ONLY 23GB I gave my PS5 a standing ovation.

  3. #228
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    Quote Originally Posted by rachel View Post
    My first computer had a 4 gig HDD
    My first PC? 40MB. And now I feel old.

  4. #229
    Level 10,000 achieved
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Finland
    Heh, my first was 100MB. It could fit MS-DOS, Windows 3.11, and a bunch of games. Tho I had to uninstall Windows so I could fit the Quake demo on it.

  5. #230
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    My first computer was made of oak and you had to set the bits by hand.

  6. #231
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    You kids these days with your fancy machines and abacuses and whatnot. We did all the calculations on our fingers back in the day. I mean, those of us that hadn't had them bitten off by a saber-toothed tiger or something.

  7. #232
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2004
    You had saber-toothed tigers back in the day? My my how lucky! We had but regular-toothed tigers who would gnaw on your fingers for HOURS in order to bite them off. None of that luxurious quick chomp. And there was nothing we could do - nothing! Just had to wait till it was done gnawing before we could carry on with our day.

  8. #233
    Level 10,000 achieved
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Finland
    Remember when I said that the PS5 update didn't work but then it turn out that it DID work after all? Well I got an update: IT DOESNT WORK! I got the PS5 version downloaded, started it up, and the imported PS4 save is CORRUPTED! Tried deleting it and going to System and re-uploading the PS4 save to the cloud, then re-importing, same thing. The saves seem to work fine in the PS4 version, which I still have installed, but no matter what I can't get em working in the PS5 version. Am I gonna have to start this thing over from the beginning or what?

  9. #234
    Level 10,000 achieved
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Finland

    Cyberpunk is BACK, BABY

    Cyberpunk 2077 just surpassed Witcher 3 in peak concurrent players on Steam. Wow, that's a lot of players!

    Also, I just started playing it again this weekend, on PS5. Those opening 5 hours are really good. Last time I got bored somewhere around the 20h mark tho, lets see how I hold up this time.

    Lastly, the Cyberpunk anime. You guys SEEN THIS?



    I sat down to check it out last night and ended up watching the first 3 episodes. It's uh... really good. (so far)

    CYBERPUNK IS BACK, BABYYYYYY! IT'S PREEM IP, CHOOM! NOVAAAAAAA!

  10. #235
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: the Sheeple Pen
    I'm so glad that the game wasn't dead and buried after the disaster of a release. I doubt that my computer can run the game well enough, but I'm definitely looking forward to playing this in the future. Then again I still haven't even played The Witcher 3 (even though I forced myself through the first two games like two years ago so that I could play it), so I suppose I could start with that.

  11. #236
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2001
    Location: Somewhere
    Definitely worth playing Witcher 3, especially if you like story and character heavy games. It is long though.

  12. #237
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: the Sheeple Pen
    Yeah, I'm sure that I'll love it. Just haven't got around to playing it yet for some reason, probably because I know that's it's really long indeed, and I try my best to avoid those 100+ hour long games these days. I just don't want to dedicate that much time on one game anymore, because there are dozens of other games in my library waiting for their turn.

  13. #238
    Level 10,000 achieved
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Finland
    Ok goons, gangoons and chooms! I finished Cyberpunk 2077. ~35h playtime. In the end I raided Arasaka with the Aldecaldos. Alt helped me split with Johnny, which left me with 6 months to live. Crossed the border with Panam. A bittersweet ending.

    Final verdict time!

    It's still a bit buggy (on PS5). Mostly with NPCs acting weird. Also had instances where I was stuck in relic-headache mode until I restarted. Once I couldn't toggle camera-view in the car until I restarted. Nothing gamebreaking. Oh, except for my PS4 save not upgrading to a PS5 save like it should which meant I had to start over from the beginning.

    Gameplaywise: I like the driving, and stealthin' n hackin' around enemy bases feels Deus Ex-esque. All the RPG stuff introduces annoying fuzziness and uncertainty into the gameplay tho. Like, if I wanna throw a knife into a guy's head to silently take him down it's never certain if that'll successfully take him down, or merely take 95% off his health, sending him into alert and my whole stealth-style out the window. The only solution is to quicksave before you do ANYTHING and then load when things go to shit. I savescummed constantly. I would much prefer if all the RPG stuff was stripped out and this was just a straight up action-stealth game.

    But anyway, in the end all I can live with all those little annoyances because the game really shines when it comes to characters, world, and story. This is a really good game. I liked it a lot.

  14. #239
    Thing What Kicks
    Registered: Apr 2004
    Location: London
    Pretty much as I've said before:

    Having played the original Cyberpunk Pen & Paper game, I think CD Projekt Red rolled too much of their own RPG systems understanding in to CP2077.
    It's built around being a looter-shooter instead of a classic RPG, with tiered gear and all the hang-ups that brings with it.

    I wish RPGs would go back to basics concerning gear, where a gun does the same damage at level 1 as level 20, but it's your character's skill that determines the outcome.

    CDPR made the same mistake in Witcher 3, although there it was made even worse by the fact that gear only dropped at your level, meaning it was only useful while you were at that level, and became useless almost immediately, the same mistake Larian made with DOS2.

    Chop all that RPG fuzziness out, and CP2077 would be a lot better game.

    I also feel like the cyberware in the game too often felt more like simple stat boosts instead of changing the way you played the game. Cyberware should open up new gameplay avenues, and too few of the cyberware items in the game did that.
    I was also disappointed that the visual changes to your character when installing new cyberware were pretty much limited to your arms, and that was it.

    For a Cyberpunk game, that's a travesty.

    Even so, I enjoyed the game when I played it previously, and I'm enjoying playing it again, although I'm doing my best not to progress the main story. While it is undeniably cool, something about the way it's structured just feels too rigid to me.

  15. #240
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2006
    Location: On the tip of your tongue.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malf View Post
    I wish RPGs would go back to basics concerning gear, where a gun does the same damage at level 1 as level 20, but it's your character's skill that determines the outcome.
    That's no better though, because then you've got the massive disconnect between player action and results when everything's actually using dice rolls in the background. It's fine on pen and paper to have skill partially determined by a dice roll because your imagination fills in the abstraction. If you make a videogame with FPS mechanics, as a player, I expect my own skill at FPS games to be the deciding factor. It always feels rubbish to miss a shot due to a dice roll when your cursor was over the target's head.

  16. #241
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    I thought that the original Deus Ex did that reasonably well, in ways that felt fair and transparent. If you're not good with a gun, you'll see that your bullet might end up anywhere within the crosshair area. Your skill determines how quickly and how much the crosshair shrinks and how much it wanders. As a result, you either had to take the risk or get closer or use a scope or aim at the torso (higher chance of hitting the target, low chance of a one-hit kill) or use a different approach altogether.

  17. #242
    PC Gamering Smartey Man
    I <3 consoles and gamepads

    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: New Zealand
    Quote Originally Posted by Thirith View Post
    I thought that the original Deus Ex did that reasonably well, in ways that felt fair and transparent. If you're not good with a gun, you'll see that your bullet might end up anywhere within the crosshair area. Your skill determines how quickly and how much the crosshair shrinks and how much it wanders. As a result, you either had to take the risk or get closer or use a scope or aim at the torso (higher chance of hitting the target, low chance of a one-hit kill) or use a different approach altogether.
    In Deus Ex's context where you're an elite intelligence agent (or Mass Effect 1's, where you're elite military special forces), the RPG mechanics being applied to the SKILL OF AIMING A GUN made no sense. The sequels making their gameplay more accessible by defenestrating those particular mechanics actually benefited the setting immersion, IMO.

  18. #243
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Washington DC
    Quote Originally Posted by nicked View Post
    That's no better though, because then you've got the massive disconnect between player action and results when everything's actually using dice rolls in the background. It's fine on pen and paper to have skill partially determined by a dice roll because your imagination fills in the abstraction. If you make a videogame with FPS mechanics, as a player, I expect my own skill at FPS games to be the deciding factor. It always feels rubbish to miss a shot due to a dice roll when your cursor was over the target's head.
    I'm personally okay with an RPG using stats/skills to affect things like damage and crit chance, rather than arbitrarily missed shots like Morrowind. Malf's more criticizing the looter-shooter element where you're picking up a new gun every fifteen minutes because your old one is obsolete, which is a gameplay element on top of your actual player attributes affecting how effective those guns are.

    Besides, you can also leverage RPG stats in the implementation of common FPS mechanics. Weapon sway, ADS time, hipfire accuracy, recoil, and reload speed can all be tied to player attributes without layering anything 'artificial' over top.

  19. #244
    Thing What Kicks
    Registered: Apr 2004
    Location: London
    Quote Originally Posted by catbarf View Post
    I'm personally okay with an RPG using stats/skills to affect things like damage and crit chance, rather than arbitrarily missed shots like Morrowind. Malf's more criticizing the looter-shooter element where you're picking up a new gun every fifteen minutes because your old one is obsolete, which is a gameplay element on top of your actual player attributes affecting how effective those guns are.

    Besides, you can also leverage RPG stats in the implementation of common FPS mechanics. Weapon sway, ADS time, hipfire accuracy, recoil, and reload speed can all be tied to player attributes without layering anything 'artificial' over top.
    Pretty much, yeah.
    Although going full-on netrunner allows you to bypass almost all gunplay. My past couple of runs, including my current one, I've sequence-broken early on, going off-piste as soon as I've been allowed, and it's made possible by two things which aren't in-line with the looter-shooter gear system.
    1: Going almost exclusively netrunner allows you to take out everything in the initial, locked-off north-western part of the map with no issues and no guns. It only builds in power, and by the time you've exhausted all of the missions available to you in that part of the map, you'll be wiping out entire locations using just Breach, Ping and Contagion.
    2: It doesn't matter how many levels an enemy is above you, if you can get behind them without being seen, you can take them out (apart from enemies specifically designed not to be taken out this way).

    And these really highlight how useless the looter-shooter gear system really is. Takedowns will always work, while a shot to the head isn't guaranteed to. Netrunning will always work too, even on harder targets like Cyberpsychos.

    But I'm not sure the game has AI advanced enough to support combat that relies solely on its mechanics rather than running a treadmill of ever more powerful guns.
    And maybe that's really the reason so many games (FPS or otherwise) have adopted these mechanics. Difficulty is easier to regulate through gear than through being able to design and program advanced, yet fair, AI.
    And now that I think about it, I think the last FPS-style game that really put effort in to enemy AI that I played and could tell that was the case was probably FEAR. Although, please feel free to remind me of other games with notable AI if this seems hyperbolic (I mean yes, Crysis is widely lauded as having good AI, but to be honest, it didn't wow me as much as FEAR.)

    Most encounter design in games these days seems to all be about rock, paper, scissors and pattern recognition.

  20. #245
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Land of the crazy
    Quote Originally Posted by EvaUnit02 View Post
    In Deus Ex's context where you're an elite intelligence agent (or Mass Effect 1's, where you're elite military special forces), the RPG mechanics being applied to the SKILL OF AIMING A GUN made no sense. The sequels making their gameplay more accessible by defenestrating those particular mechanics actually benefited the setting immersion, IMO.
    The way Deus Ex handled shooting skills makes sense to people who have real shooting experience. The only immersion breaking mistake was not starting you out as Trained on Pistol and Rifle skills, as any rookie UNATCO agent would be. But even that is defensible as a player choice.

  21. #246
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Washington DC
    Quote Originally Posted by Malf View Post
    And now that I think about it, I think the last FPS-style game that really put effort in to enemy AI that I played and could tell that was the case was probably FEAR. Although, please feel free to remind me of other games with notable AI if this seems hyperbolic (I mean yes, Crysis is widely lauded as having good AI, but to be honest, it didn't wow me as much as FEAR.)
    Yeah, FEAR set a high mark that I don't think I've seen reached since. But in fairness to Cyberpunk, Crysis, and other (relatively) open-world games, FEAR's AI involves a lot of smoke and mirrors, and relies heavily on intelligent map design and deliberately tight environs. It's been a while since I studied it, but IIRC AI actors can trigger each other to play voice lines (eg an actor that has just started to move will trigger a nearby actor to verbally give it the order to move), and they move a lot more than typical shooter AI, which gives the impression that they're deliberately flanking the player even though it's essentially just the unplanned result of moving to the next piece of cover. When you do fight in more open spaces in FEAR, I find the illusion starts to break down a bit, even though there is a lot of sophistication to how the AI coordinates as a team and learns from what isn't working.

    Also, I'm not sure it's a given that players actually want smarter AI. AI that's smart enough that you can't easily 'game' it is unpredictable, and unpredictability makes it a difficult challenge to 'solve'. Some genres are better for that than others; strategy benefits from smart, human-like AI, but a Thief game with guards that behaved like real people rather than predictable automatons could be frustrating. Predictable AI that facilitate pattern-recognition and rock-paper-scissors gameplay as you put it keeps that Skinner box going for the lowest common denominator of players. Cyberpunk's AI is pretty damn dumb, but there doesn't seem to be much market demand for AI beyond the level of, say, Halo, where the enemies respond to the player but don't coordinate or learn. Probably doesn't help that AI is much harder to market than graphics or gunplay.

    But yeah I would also love to hear if there are any games in the last two decades I've missed that capture that same sort of magic. It almost seems to me like developers that want players to feel challenged in that way just end up making PVP games.

  22. #247
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Land of the crazy
    Monolith set the bar high early. Even the NOLF games have AI that holds up reasonably well by today's standards.

    I won't speak for others, but the combat AI in most of today's single player games is probably good enough for me. It's the interactions with neutral and friendly NPCs that tend to make or break immersion. Cyberpunk's AI is disappointing in this regard, but it's not unusual for an open world game. That's kind of why I've gotten away from playing them.

  23. #248
    Thing What Kicks
    Registered: Apr 2004
    Location: London
    Another interesting thing with my current playthrough:
    When I initially played the game, I was running Windows and an RTX2080 Super.
    I'm still running that same card, but on Linux, and Linux/Wine doesn't currently support DX12 raytracing.

    So I'm playing sans RT and to be honest?
    I don't miss it.

    Framerates are constantly high and smooth, and without having an RT image to compare it to concurrently, the game still looks great. In fact, it's making me question how much difference RT really made to the game in the first place.

    Is it possible that RT is the new stereoscopic 3D and just a gimmick?
    I strongly suspect so.

    When cards come down to sensible levels again, I'll certainly be paying less attention to RT performance when I look at replacing mine.
    And as I've discovered RT is far less important to me, I suspect that means this card will last me at least an extra year or more than it would if RT were still important to me.

  24. #249
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    I don't think that RT is a must-have, but neither do I think it's a gimmick. I don't think we're there yet, but I expect that some degree of RT will be the standard by 2025. I have to admit that virtual spaces where light acts as it does in the real world appeal to me, much like having objects react physically as they would in the real world did back when Max Payne 2 came out. Being able to stand in front of a reflective surface and seeing people and cars reflected in it even though they're not on the screen lends the same kind of tangibility to me as boxes that go flying when I run through them. And I've definitely become much more aware of the shortcomings of screen-space reflections.

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