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Thread: CDP RED making a Cyberpunk game apparently

  1. #126
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    Very much this. After all, Cyberpunk 2077 still ended up on RPS's list of E3 games to watch out for.

  2. #127
    Thing What Kicks
    Registered: Apr 2004
    Location: London
    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post
    It's not like the article was exactly eviscerating the game either. It had some concerns about the stereotypes they saw in the demo and some of the gameplay mechanics and that's it. People are so sensitive these days that any amount of mild criticism is elevated to the status of "huge outrage!". The article didn't say the devs were racist, didn't say the game should be banned, didn't demand for anyone to be fired, didn't say CD Project should stop making games, yet some of the reaction to it is as if it did all of the above.
    I'm in agreement that the article was relatively inoffensive and really just expressing mild concern. It's the comments under the article that escalated things, to the point that RPS had to heavily moderate them and finally close them.
    Indeed, the Reddit thread that Mike Pondsmith replied to was criticising the commentors rather than the article, but subsequent dumbfuck commentors missed that point. But RPS does tend to attract the ire of the window-licking gamergate crowd.

  3. #128
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Qantas
    There's also opportunists like Yong Yea fanning the flames to maximize his views. After his first video on the story generated over 500k views in a day (the one that bukary posted last page), he went and put another one out yesterday complaining that RPS had "doubled down", which has nearly 400k views already.

  4. #129
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2001
    Location: Tatry Mountains, Poland
    Interesting...


  5. #130
    ZylonBane
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: ZylonBane
    /casts Betteridge's Law

  6. #131
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2001
    Location: Tatry Mountains, Poland
    Yes, it sounds like some conspiracy theory. Nonetheless:

    Quote Originally Posted by Malf View Post
    I'm in agreement that the article was relatively inoffensive and really just expressing mild concern.
    Of course, it was inoffensive. It was just stupid. One could think that the journalist should understand the context of this game's world (the origins of the name "Animals", the structure and hierarchy of gangs etc.) and the fact that he could only see a small part of Cyberpunk's take on supposed "racial differentiation" and "unimaginative stereotypes". Instead, he was "concerned about Cyberpunk’s handling of non-white cultures". It's hard to believe that the person who can construct a proper sentence might be as witless at the same time. It's more probable that this "mild concern" (along with the article's title) was just a "clickbait" based on the same stupid allegation that fueled people complaining about the lack of black NPCs in The Witcher.

    Anyway, good job, RPS.

  7. #132
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Good job promoting them and making it work. Without people like you, articles like these would not get any attention, let alone blow up in a "controversy".

    The handling of non-white cultures is a perfectly valid thing to be concerned about, especially with a company for whom it's basically the first time doing this. And no, fantasy racism against dwarves and elves doesn't count. Also, just because something is justified by the in-game lore (the Thermian argument), it doesn't mean it still can't appear as racially insensitive, especially if it resorts to stereotypes. And of course not everyone is going to have the same reaction to everything.

  8. #133
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2001
    Location: Tatry Mountains, Poland
    You are absolutely right. By pointing out and criticizing stupidity, we promote it. I should keep my mouth shut and let RPS do their thing.

    In fact, it would be better if we did not discuss this (or better: anything) at all. Down with all internet forums!

  9. #134
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    As I said, not everyone is going to have the same reaction to everything. If you feel need to point out every criticism you don't agree with and call it stupid, we'll be here a long time.

    In the article, they say that their impressions of demo were that some of the racial stereotypes seemed unimaginative, and along with some of the game mechanics (hacking, shooting) this tempered their expectations somewhat, meaning they are still excited about the game, but a little bit more in the "wait and see" camp. If that was honestly what they felt, what's wrong with that? Should they have lied then and say they thought everything was fine instead?

    You are arguing that their criticisms are invalid based on the context of the whole game, but the game is not out yet, is it? If they only saw a small part of it, then it's because only a small part of it was shown to them, and the article makes very clear their impressions are based solely on the demo.
    Last edited by Starker; 21st Jun 2019 at 14:13.

  10. #135
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: not here
    The RPS article has two clickbait hooks, actually: one, it pours cold water on something that was anticipated by going against the optimistic grain of most previews. Two, the entire race treatment angle. It's almost perfectly calibrated to get people to get down in the comments section and do the social indigation boogie woogie - whether by accident or design, I remain undecided, but I'm leaning towards the latter.

    Yong's video, meanwhile, is an opportunistic clickbait-y piece of dreck that reads out whole paragraphs from the article and then proceeds to spend the rest of its time in smug indignation. And yes, people are going to watch it and comment, because people love drama.

    Overall, this entire situation is pretty vapid. I'm sure both Youtube and RPS are silently happy at the amount of ad revenue this throws their way, though.

  11. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post
    It evidently worked, because up until now I had no idea this nontroversy even existed. Just a thought: maybe if people didn't give them such a huge amount of attention and make such a big deal out of this, they would stop doing it.
    Sorry. Reality is this guy's a bigoted fucktard:




    Source: Cyberpunk 2020 Rulebook:

    https://www.pdfdrive.com/cyberpunk-2020-d33442665.html

  12. #137
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by bukary View Post
    It's more probable that this "mild concern" (along with the article's title) was just a "clickbait" based on the same stupid allegation that fueled people complaining about the lack of black NPCs in The Witcher.
    If you are making a game for the Western audience, you have to take into account that it is not homogeneous, but made up of some very diverse mix of cultures due to decades of colonial history. Hence you should not be surprised that there would be questions raised about these issues, especially since there has previously been very little and very poor representation of certain minorities.

    Also, if you're referring to that Polygon article that made the point that the lack of POC in games often goes unnoticed and uncommented, that's just the kind of article Polygon publishes as a very explicitly socially progressive publication. Complaining about Polygon writing articles like these is like going to an Indian restaurant and complaining that they serve Indian food.

    Also, Polygon has further this to say about their opinion pieces:

    Each opinion piece that runs on Polygon reflects the thoughts and feelings of its author, and no one else. These pieces are a way to try to make sense out of a game, a piece of news or an ongoing trend in the world of video games and the culture around them.

    These pieces are a way for informed writers to shine a light on aspects of our shared hobby that are worth celebrating, as well as a way to discuss parts of our industry that may need be adjusted, fixed or thrown away altogether.

    These pieces aren’t meant to act as a preview for an eventual review, nor do they operate as a refutation of a past review of a game. The thoughts expressed in an opinion piece exist outside of the news cycle, and don’t reflect the thoughts or feelings of Polygon as a whole, nor the individual writers or editors who create the content on this site.

    Opinion pieces present one side of debates or issues that are often two sided, and will seek to begin a dialog with our readers and the industry at large. These pieces may be written by Polygon staff, freelance writers or industry professionals.
    Last edited by Starker; 21st Jun 2019 at 16:49.

  13. #138
    Thing What Kicks
    Registered: Apr 2004
    Location: London
    Quote Originally Posted by Sulphur View Post
    It's almost perfectly calibrated to get people to get down in the comments section and do the social indigation boogie woogie - whether by accident or design, I remain undecided, but I'm leaning towards the latter.
    Yeah, that doesn't wash for me, as the comments on said article were closed pretty damn quickly once it became apparent they'd attracted a shitstorm.
    I'm more inclined to put it down to Matt Cox's well meaning, but misplaced white guilt and his relative inexperience as a writer on the site.

  14. #139
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: not here
    That's fair. I might be projecting more evil onto the situation than there actually is due to RPS's recent buyout by a corporate entity, and Matt's definitely still finding his voice, which is fine as long as he doesn't turn out to be John Walker, Jr.

  15. #140
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Maybe it is all a big ploy to make gamers look bad.

    Step 1: publish a mildly critical article about a demo to a popular upcoming game
    Step 2: bait gamers into looking ridiculous by having them overreact and leap straight to the worst interpretations of the article and the writer's intentions
    Step 3: ???
    Step 4: Profit!!!

    Btw, Eurogamer also published an article where they criticised the stereotypes and the gunplay: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...-cyberpunk-yet

    There is some questionable dialogue - or rather, questionable subtitling - where the man's thick Creole accent is also written out in the subtitles, "they" as "dey" and "the" as "da" or "de". This is the same for nearly all of the Voodoo Boys and people of this area, and actually after you unlock a chip in-game that translates launguage for you, your software presents it as such - "la" in a foreign language still "da" in English. Later on, Placide mentions "they are coming", or something of that ilk, and our white male character asks "who is "dey"?".
    It's incredibly hard to say without actually feeling it, of course, but the gunplay here did look a little stiff.
    So either it's a conspiracy or there really was something that made at least a couple of people feel off about these things, as far as the demo is concerned.

  16. #141
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: not here
    If I were a conspiracy nut, I'd point out that both articles are overseen by the Gamer network, but I'm not, so moving on: perhaps the gunplay isn't particularly great, but as far as I'm aware CP2077 is either an RPG or a post-genre game like Deus Ex, and I can't remember the last game from either side that had satisfying gunplay (outside of ME:A, at least). It sounds like the other paths you can take work well, so it's not so much a cause for concern if we're looking at the big picture.

    The Creole thing is interesting, however. I'd be worried if the character creator only let you play as a white male; given that you're most probably able to change the colour of your skin and gender, the only real point to be made is that the character you're playing is a bit of a tit.
    Last edited by Sulphur; 22nd Jun 2019 at 03:09.

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