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Thread: Sneaky Upgrade Editor Edition: Unofficial patches for T3Ed and friends

  1. #26
    New Member
    Registered: Jun 2010
    Location: Australia
    Can we have another download link as it is broken.


  2. #27
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    Fixed, thanks for the heads-up. My cloud service shut down but I was told that the files would be available until the end of July - apparently not...

  3. #28
    New Member
    Registered: Jun 2010
    Location: Australia
    This patch fixed my editor loading issues.


  4. #29
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    Updated the first post with the version - there never was an 1.1.4 or

    For once there's something new, besides just switching T3MainReleaseVersion.exe to the latest version from the game edition: If Shift is held while selecting the Send to Xbox menu item, then a new batch file, ExportMap.bat, will be executed, with the base name of the currently loaded map (e.g. "Inn") passed as an argument.

    The default ExportMap.bat will launch the game exe with a special switch, -mkibt, which is equivalent to running it with WriteResourceBlockFiles=True and QuitAfterFirstFrame=True. After the IBTs have been generated they are moved into a folder which is selected through the ExportPath variable in the .bat file, and renamed according to the map. The corresponding .gmp file is copied there as well. If the map name is "Entry" then only the .gmp is copied, the IBTs are ignored.

    The default target is "ExportedMaps\Content\T3\Maps" in the root of the current editor installation. To copy directly to an FM folder for test with FMSel and the game installation, set the ExportPath value to something like "C:\ProgramData\Thief 3 Sneaky Upgrade\Installed FMs\NewFM\Content\T3\Maps" (assuming that the default FM installation path is used). The path will be created if it does not exist.

    Also, the installer will now create XbReboot.bat with the usual content if it's not already present.

  5. #30
    That's great, this way we'll be able to test the "playable" build of the mission without going through all the hassle with entry map, objectives and such. Also useful if you want to see your map file size and compression ratio (with 7zip and such).

  6. #31
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    Yes, one could even add an Alt function for the final preparation - CBT conversion and 7zip etc. (Not being a mapper myself, any suggestions as to the contents of the ExportMap.bat file are welcome...)

  7. #32
    I don't have any suggestions right now, since I mostly make models and movies. I guess the greatest boost for T3FM authors would be a standalone .mlb material reader/creator/editor, preferably with a preview window. Still, I understand it's too much to ask, since it will require use of buggy Directx 8.1 libraries (otherwise the mlbs won't work ingame). Anyway, this plus some kind of .tim file converter/exporter (+ HKConvex collision function) finally would make 3dsmax 5.1 redundant. And the workflow will be much closer to something relatively simple

  8. #33
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    Yeah, I wish I could help with those things but I would hardly know where to begin - I'm not familiar with any of the formats involved...

  9. #34
    I can help with my user experience, file examples and testing, i.e. I believe I know most things you can do with Ion Shader in Max 5.1 (I wanted to write that I know how it works, but that's not exactly true ). I can import/export material libraries, models etc. I can't do much on the programming side of things

  10. #35
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    You're welcome to give me something to think about. What's the simplest possible tool (as a starting point) that would be useful? Would file conversion be enough to allow you to skip the Max 5.1 step? Where does the DX8 bugginess come in?

    Is there any information to be found about the .mlb and .tim file formats? I tried searching briefly but didn't find much (except there's apparently an attorney named Tim Mesh ).

  11. #36
    I'll be glad to help, give me a day or two to answer your questions thoroughly, and prepare what I know about all this stuff

    Also, one other thing crossed my mind: is it possible to add more texture (image) formats that would be recognized by T3ED and Flesh engine? DDS format isn't exactly wonderful to work with, first of all its compression is image-destructive. It would be great to have .png alternative for example: compression is lossless, more efficient, also allows transparency, etc.
    Last edited by Judith; 29th Dec 2014 at 09:53.

  12. #37
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    Without source code it's not realistic - sorry...

  13. #38
    I suspected as much, no worries. If what I do is playable someday (I'm prototyping in UDK for speed and ease of use), I'll just convert png files to dds. I've heard XnView is pretty good with that.

  14. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Judith View Post
    DDS format isn't exactly wonderful to work with, first of all its compression is image-destructive.
    What apps are you using to create the .DDS files and what compression levels are you using.

    In TDM we pack most textures @DXT1 and almost all of the textures and DXT3 on some decals. All of the testures in TDM are of far higher res and quality than that used in T3 or T1/2 for that matter. The crucial thing is we don't pack the normals these we leave as uncompressed .TGA files.

    Fyi. I use GIMP to create the .DDS files and NJOB to create the normals.

    Quote Originally Posted by Judith View Post
    I'll just convert png files to dds. I've heard XnView is pretty good with that.
    Don't! XnView the qaulity is poor and will butcher your image files half the time, use Gimp instead. And when exporting to .DDS make sure 'GeneratMipMaps' is ticked.

  15. #40
    Typically I use Gimp and the DDS plugin, DXT1 compression for opaque textures and DXT3 for anything that uses alpha channel. I don't compress normals (and they're huge) since every compression type messess them up. I use Gimp setting to generate mipmaps, because T3ED natively uses really low-quality mipmapping, especially for BSP. There's big difference between mipmapping on BSP and static meshes, I wonder if there's a way to even things out here. Anyway, I use Bicubic mipmap filter in Gimp, for Lanczos filter is very slow with big textures.

    The thing is, everything I do now is mostly hand painted and carefully controlled in terms of color, pattern etc. I don't use stock textures or photos at all, or only to get some basic (desaturated) structure of a surface. Every texture is 2048, every object is properly unwrapped, has its medium or high-poly detail mesh, baked AOs etc. This is equivalent of Ultra insane setting I will surely scale the whole thing down to 1024 or even 512 for lower-end systems, but doing it manually for several dozens of textures will be a nightmare I'd prefer to avoid

    Thanks for the heads-up on the NJOB, I'll try it out while tweaking normals.

  16. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by snobel View Post
    You're welcome to give me something to think about. What's the simplest possible tool (as a starting point) that would be useful? Would file conversion be enough to allow you to skip the Max 5.1 step? Where does the DX8 bugginess come in?

    Is there any information to be found about the .mlb and .tim file formats? I tried searching briefly but didn't find much (except there's apparently an attorney named Tim Mesh ).
    Ok, here's a short guide to IonShader options. It probably should have more screenshots, e.g. for Emissive and Alpha testing options, but I wanted to make it as fast as I could:

    You'll find some of the answers there, mostly about bugginess

    IMO the most simple tool we need is an interface with those options. Some of them are broken or buggy, so it would be up to you to decide whether to include them or not (or to repair/improve them, if you know how).

    Most important thing is, that it should allow creating the .mlb file from scratch. In current workflow you need to save your material library with Max in a .mat file, and then use the Import/Export plugin to convert it to .mlb.

    Files for 3dsmax included with T3Editor (Utility/Max) will probably be a good starting point.

    If this is doable, next most important thing will be a preview window, standard plane, cube and cylinder meshes with an option to use custom mesh (e.g. for unwrapped textures) in specified format. Is .obj common enough for everyone? Maybe some Blender format as well.

    As for the model import/export: there's nothing about .tim format in 3dsmax 5.1 help, so I assume this one is also somewhere in Utility/Max folder. Actually it's called StaticMesh4 (.tim), but I didn't find anything useful on such format. I guess this one would be fully functional even without a viewer. The menu would need one path for the actual model and the another one for collision mesh, if someone doesn't want to rely on Exact option in T3Ed Mesh Browser (useful e.g. for the stairs). Right now you can make your own collision mesh in Max 5.1, adding the "HKConvex_" prefix to it in the Name field. If your model is "Stairs01", you name your collision mesh "HKConvex_Stairs01", and .tim format recognizes this automatically during export.

    Oh, and last but not least, I actually have one suggestion on the editor. Can we have option below turned on in viewports by default? It's really useful while setting up lightning, and it resets every time you restart the editor.
    Last edited by Judith; 31st Dec 2014 at 13:52.

  17. #42
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    Thanks - I'll go over it during the weekend.

  18. #43
    When I see T3 related thread like this it make me think, hmm how hard is T3ED/T3 compared to Darkradiant/TDM....

  19. #44
    I think that working on level design alone is easier than in Radiant. It's the Unreal Editor 2.x interface anyway, so it's pretty user-friendly. Custom content is quite problematic though. The stock stuff looks outdated and a bit boring. IMO getting rid of 3dsmax 5.1 as mandatory import/export tool for meshes and materials might be like a second wind for FM authors. I think T3Ed really needs new sets of hi-res tiling textures and static meshes, theme packages of some sort (mansion, tenment etc.).

  20. #45
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    OK, I've had a look at the above... I'm afraid the knowledge delta is too large, both my own lack of mapping insight and the amount of reverse engineering needed - sorry.

    I wouldn't mind having a go at the GUI but when native .mlb support is the most important feature then figuring out that format should be the first stop. Apparently Shadowspawn got somewhere reverse engineering the .tim format but I don't know if he ever got started on .mlb. Anyway, the very first thing to do would be to contact Shadowspawn and get as much info and code as possible.

    The "Radii View" thing should be doable at least, but I'll need a small map to test if it's working. (Tried it on one of the orig maps but saw no effect.)

  21. #46
    Yeah, I thought it would be a huge amount of work. Still, the results will be worth it. I haven't seen any posts by Shadowspawn recently, but his profile says he's active, so contacting him shouldn't be a problem.

    As for the Radii View, you don't need a map, create a builder brush, use Subtract to get an empty room, rebuild map, and Add light from the right click menu. Light radius should be visible when you select the light.
    Last edited by Judith; 5th Jan 2015 at 07:04.

  22. #47
    I might have an idea for another feature, if it's not too dificult to implement. How about an option or a command that would force T3Ed to reload textures? Some textures don't need a material, like projection textures for lights, and some materials don't even appear in texture browser, like materials without diffuse texture. Every time I substitute a texture with its updated version, I have to either launch a game mode or restart T3Ed, to see any changes. Or maybe we already have something like that in place, and I just didn't find it?
    Last edited by Judith; 6th Jan 2015 at 14:05.

  23. #48
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    Without source code, unless there's an existing function which does exactly what you want, and which could then be executed in a different context, then it's probably not doable. (When working in binary only small isolated changes are feasible, in general.)

  24. #49
    Sorry for asking you about something that requires source code. Tbh, I have no idea which issues belong to which category.

    In Texture browser you can reload visible materials, then you have to rebuild the map – this option works fine, although I noticed no change when I was tweaking normals. At some point while changing a normal map, the material stopped using it in the editor view after using Reload. It worked in the game though. Any changes to cubemaps, materials without _D texture or _P textures used by FFL Light function require launching the game mode or restarting the editor. It's not that big of am issue, but I thought it might be worth a shot. I just went through the list of console commands from the Fleshworks Wiki, but didn't find anything useful.
    Last edited by Judith; 7th Jan 2015 at 07:11.

  25. #50
    Alright, another idea: loading screens always are in 4:3 ratio, is it possible to change that? I tried making something for 16:9 and it was squashed on the sides anyway. Second thought: is it possible to have videos instead of screens during loading, like the looping background video in main menu?

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