Reply With QuoteI would say, stay with the black grout. Mainly because it more accurately reflects the feel of the original game texture.
Lighter grout - - - - - - - - - - - - - then original - - - - - - - - - - - - - - then darker grout
Damn if I know.
I would say, stay with the black grout. Mainly because it more accurately reflects the feel of the original game texture.
OK. I'm done. I like this one. I wanted to get rid of the "fuzzy" and "soft focus" look that had somehow crept into the texture and give it a little more depth. This does that I think.
Spot on, G!
The original blurred low-res texture is still a little too obviously lurking under the high-res detail. Could use some smudging.
Other than some more polish, I would say that's an excellent translation from the original...The color and feel are right on the money.
Though, I would like to see both yours and Ren's version in-game, with an A/B comparison of the original.
I'd happily do it, though I need the name of a level using the keeper textures I can test out in Thief 2. I'm pretty sure that's the texture used for the floor during the training mission in TG. Problem is, I don't have TG installed, and I've squirrelled the discs away somewhere mysterious.Originally Posted by Vae
...and I can't buy it on GOG because I blew my monthly game load on Dishonored.
Also, I'd say right now Larry's texture is closer in style and concept to the original. Mine's similar, a little more rounded, fancy, and well...we don't know if it's polished stone or rough brick. Truth be told, either one would work. Whether one is better than the other is a matter of taste.
I guess it all depends on how slavishly we want to stick to the original style. Similar, but improved in various ways (ie a few throwaway details here and there, so long as it looks good and fits in theme), or sharper/crisper updates that stick as close as humanly possible to the source material?
Well if ZB wants, who am I to argue?
@Renzatic: if you want the PSPIMAGE file, I can get it to you to play with.
The texture is also in The Haunted Cathedral, in the Keeper Chapel, but that's still not TMA.
ZB: the secret king of TTLG.
Sure, I'd love to check it out. I'll also return the favor.if you want the PSPIMAGE file, I can get it to you to play with.
In the meantime, I'm going to start another texture, and maybe do some digging around for my TG discs.
Double posting, but for a good cause.
What do you think of this?
It needs to mix well with the tiled floor. Kinda weird that you have such a colorful texture in the same set as this thing.
Gimme critiques!
edit: I compared them. It depends on what direction the set ultimately goes. If it looks neglected, clean, colorful, drab, ect. But for now, I think Larry's is the better texture to use here.
Last edited by Renzatic; 13th Oct 2012 at 03:46.
I think you have the idea right. I think it is peeling blue paint over an orangey wood. But you need to match the colors better. And the panel you used is clearly different from the panel used in the original. You need to match the wood panel type better, and then address the peeling paint better.
What you did is good, just not as a drop in replacement for the original.
How's this?
Needs some more tweaking, but you get the idea. The panel's a bit closer in design to the original.
edit: fixed above. I could probably do a little more with the paint, but the colors, panels and everything are a pretty close match to the original.
edit 2: Whew. Besides critiques and tiling, I think I'm done. What do you all think?
Last edited by Renzatic; 13th Oct 2012 at 05:12.
I would want to see them side by side and then check the proportions, color, and darkness of the replacement against the original. Just at a guess, I think the vibrancy of color is missing and the panel is not quite the right size. But it is hard to tell without them side by side.
I've been working on a page to display progress and also to compare old, new, and candidate textures.
Here's the comparison page for Renz' latest work:
http://nameless.zanity.net/epterrain..._example_2.jpg
Feel free to comment on the rest of the page as well: http://nameless.zanity.net/epterrain
There's no way to submit images to it yet, you have to get them to me manually.
Excellent!~
Re. kwgrain2, part of the problem with the original texture is the seeming lack of symetry, that is, the left border seems wider than the right border, as though the panel were not centered in the texture. Similarly the top and bottom are asymmetric in the original. The bottom is border is thicker than the top. The question is what to do about those asymmetries. I think that you need to try two alternatives. 1) You should try to take a middle ground and make the borders a little wider on all sides so that the panel remains centered, and all four borders are a little off, too wide on the right and too narrow on the left, too wide on top and too narrow on the bottom. 2) you should duplicate the asymmetries exactly. Then show us both alternatives to fuss over.
Asymmetry aside, I think the depth of color still needs improvement. The blues should be darker and the orange richer. I thnk there is too much bare wood showing on the central panel, and that changes the colors.
Last edited by LarryG; 13th Oct 2012 at 11:28.
Xorax, can you supply some lossless versions of your textures?
The same applies to everyone: once you're happy with a texture, make sure to upload a lossless version (e.g. PNG or PSD format), so that I can add it to the archive!
I can't see much difference. The highlights on the tiles are still pretty obviously in the shape of large blurred squares.
The page looks fine to me, NV. Simple but should serve us well. I've already made a 256x256 version of catacomb>hammer1.gif for the HMDK (well the iconography, not the background) so I may try making a much larger version.
Since the perception of light and dark are so important in Thief, I let the histogram be my guide once the basic details of a replacement texture are matched. The current texture is noticeably brighter than the original. Also, it's clearly top-lit, while the original seems to be front-lit. This could cause it to look weird in some lighting configurations.
I don't see that at all. I did use halo softening of the original for color distribution, but no blurring, and to me there are no blurred squares at all to be seen. The highlights are from various other texture layers for luminescence and surface texture. I think it will look great as a drop-in replacement.
Alright. Changes noted, and working on it now.
There is one aside I want to bring up about the colors. At one point, I had it more closely matching the original, and thought it was kinda ugly looking. Like the original has an almost painterly look to it. Dark purple paint on orange-red wood look alright there. You're more accepting of weird color combinations in paintings and cartoons. Throw those colors on a more photorealistic texture though, and it ends up looking almost surreal.
Devils advocate, it might be possible the colors are fine, and surface details I've got in there don't lend themselves well to those particular shades. But it's also very possible that colors that look fine on more vague textures won't necessarily look good on higher res ones.
I'll see what I can do. I'll have a proportion redo and a color remix coming up in an hourish.
Panel adjusted (still got to fix that middlemost piece, as it's not perfectly square in the original), color tweaked, and gave it a generic lightsource. It's kinda sloppy at the moment, but a few tweaks, cuts, and dabs should fix that.
Removing the lightsource makes it look sorta plain to me, but it is a closer match now.
edit: gonna add in some dark stains along the edges and center piece.
edit 2: I think it's kinda ugly and undetailed looking now, but it's pretty close to be proportionally correct, and the colors match as close as I can get them without looking too garish.
Last edited by Renzatic; 13th Oct 2012 at 20:19.
This is what ZB means:
You can see the square pattern from the original tile on the new tile.
I don't see the highlights as square at all. They are the same general shape in outline as the original, but that's the point. That's what I was going for. It is supposed to be a drop in replacement. But there are no straight edges like in the original. If you decrease the resolution to the same as the original the new texture should look almost identical to the original. That's what a drop in replacement should do. But no, there are no straight lines like you have drawn. Use it or not. I like it.This is what ZB means:
You can see the square pattern from the original tile on the new tile.
I think it's much better, but still not enough blue paint in the center, especially on the center panel. The thing is, the texture doesn't need to be either to your taste or to my taste, it needs to be a drop in replacement. Try this test: scale your replacement down to the same scale as the original. Do they look like twins? Do they even look like brothers? If not, back to work on the hi-res version. Then scale it down and test again. The colors are what they are. The proportions are what they are. We are trying to figure out what the lost details are, not reinterpret what the original should have looked like.Panel adjusted (still got to fix that middlemost piece, as it's not perfectly square in the original), color tweaked, and gave it a generic lightsource. It's kinda sloppy at the moment, but a few tweaks, cuts, and dabs should fix that.
Removing the lightsource makes it look sorta plain to me, but it is a closer match now.
edit: gonna add in some dark stains along the edges and center piece.
edit 2: I think it's kinda ugly and undetailed looking now, but it's pretty close to be proportionally correct, and the colors match as close as I can get them without looking too garish.
Edit: I took your texture and mucked about with it, and this is more what I meant:
or maybe this (slightly better match for the original's panel proportions, maybe)
Last edited by LarryG; 13th Oct 2012 at 22:32.
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