Are You Effing Kidding Me?

[faetal]

You said that you will never understand annoyance aimed at sequels/reboots. I just described the precise source of that annoyance, which is really quite trivial to understand.

For humans, that is.

ZB speaking for all humans there..

Getting annoyed about something which didn't exist before, which is extrapolating from something which does exist, but not in a way which you enjoy is fruitless. Fair enough if there is a situation where someone who is likely to do a good job with it gets ousted by someone who fucks it up and has IP exclusivity, but it never is, it is just people complaining that any extrapolation has, or will happen. If you think it is all about unsatisfied expectations from people who gave the idea the benefit of the doubt and not about people saying "don't touch that idea because it is sacred", then I question your understanding of humans.

Besides, managing expectations is easy - just ignore it and maybe check it out if it gets lots of good reviews from people whose taste you trust. The only source of loss is from poor management of expectations.

[Volitions Advocate]

fett... I'm not yanking your chain here I promise, I genuinely want to know, and think it's a good topic to explore.

How would you feel if you were asked to direct a new star wars movie. (i ask because you're the most vocal self proclaimed super fan in this thread)

I've seen people talk about how Joss Whedon should be the director.. I don't think that's a good idea. I don't think I could take Summer Glau in a Star Wars flick. But the idea is that a real fan with solid convictions on the canon would be the director. If Disney took this approach and handed it to somebody considered to be "in the know" that fans respect, without micro managing it. How would you feel?

I'd watch it if you directed it. (seriously!)

What about Kevin Smith or Seth McFarlane? Others maybe? ( I still think David Lynch should've accepted the job for ROTJ)

[ZylonBane]

The pod race sequence is phenomenal, a total rush, probably on par with the original speeder bike chase on Endor.

The pod race was unbearable shit, like all sequences centered on Anakin "Yippee" Skywalker. Anyone would be better off going to the source and watching Wacky Races instead.

If you think it is all about unsatisfied expectations from people who gave the idea the benefit of the doubt and not about people saying "don't touch that idea because it is sacred", then I question your understanding of humans.

Go-go-gadget goalposts.

What about ... Seth McFarlane?

Have you seen the previews of Star Wars: Detours?

[fett]

Okay - in that we're in agreement. I would love to see something like that, but they've specifically said they'll be working off Lucas' ideas for 7-9 which clearly include the original characters. This seems like a REALLY bad idea to me. Does anyone really want to see that?

[faetal]

Go-go-gadget goalposts.



Have you seen the previews of Star Wars: Detours?

Go go gadget reading comprehension. The reason I don't understand people getting cross with sequels and re-boots is as stated. YOU were the one who ascribed it the lofty goal of being disappointed by falling short of great expectations.

[ZylonBane]

The reason I don't understand people getting cross with sequels and re-boots is as stated.

As stated eventually.

[Stitch]

Okay - in that we're in agreement. I would love to see something like that, but they've specifically said they'll be working off Lucas' ideas for 7-9 which clearly include the original characters. This seems like a REALLY bad idea to me. Does anyone really want to see that?

If done right, sure.

What's kind of amusing about this thread is I actually have a skepticism about all this that probably aligns me more with you than my previous posts would indicate, except that I'm at least open to the possibility of new Star Wars movies that don't suck. Announcing the development of new films in tandem with a massive corporate sale doesn't exactly scream anything other than marketing guys willing vast sums of profit into existence, after all.

But still, I think Disney is aware that releasing bad Star Wars films won't provide the best return on their investment, so they're likely to give the reigns to someone who understands and respects what made the original trilogy work.

And I also want to get drunk in a Mos Eisley-themed Cantina in Disneyland so bad it hurts.

[Angel Dust]

Can anyone even name a franchise that has more than 3 films that were worth watching?

Bond? Batman? Star Trek? Harry Potter (I'm guessing here - I've only seen 2 of them)? Yeah, it's not the norm but when you've got the material, and the Star Wars universe certainly is that, it's not unheard of. Bond and Batman bounced back after franchise lows to become relevant again so I don't see why the same can't be for Star Wars. It's a big universe, with plenty of other stories to tell and approaches that could be taken.

Admittedly, at this point I'm much more interested in the possibility of Disney putting the LucasArts back catalogue on Good Old Games than I am a new Star Wars film but I'm certainly about any attempts that are going to be made.

Terminator 2

[Thirith]

@fett: IMO Knights of the Old Republic shows how you can tell a Star Wars story that pushes many of the same buttons of the OT without rehashing the original characters. KotOR 2 shows how the Star Wars universe can be expanded to be more complex, interesting and mature, without breaking the epic, good-vs-evil appeal that the galaxy can have. Neither of these was perfect, and as games they obviously follow a somewhat different template than films, but I think with good people writing, directing and acting that sort of thing could be pulled off on the big screen.

[SubJeff]

Sequels that were better than the film before it

Gremlins 2
Terminator 2

W

T

F

?

Sequels were just BIGGER.

You can't have watched Terminator 1&2 recently if you think this. And the kid! Oh Gawd!

The prequels were lean, no extra nonsense. Not saying the sequels you mention are bad, and the new Star Wars films may well be good, but you can guarantee some added bs of some sort because that is the done thing and also the thing that spoils.

[fett]

You guys aren't following the plot here.

1) There are PLENTY of stories to tell in the Star Wars universe.

2) Those stories are NOT going to be told

3) Because Lucas in an interview (and the new whatshername that's in charge now) stated that they would be working from Lucas' previously conceived ideas and notes for ep 7-9.

4) This means you will not get another great story told in the same universe. It means that these films will attempt to follow the story of Luke, Leia, Solo, etc. after ROTJ. That's it. Unless they ditch Lucas' ideas and go off on their own path - which Disney has publicy stated they will NOT DO.

5) So my burning question remains - do you really wan to see other people playing these characters and carrying on a story that should have ended with Anakin's redemption and death?

[SubJeff]

I don't mind. He did come up with the originals after all.

And I'd rather see that than some nerd bollocks Boba Fett escaped the pit after all circle jerk.

[Brethren]

What's with all the T2 hate? Both 1 and 2 are great films, but 2 is clearly superior.

[Angel Dust]

I don't hate T2, as you say they are both great films but T1 is clearly superior.

[SubJeff]

I'm not hating on T2 but T1 is far better. And T2 does have some real junk in it.

[Kolya]

Carrie Fisher was kinda sweet, but I can easily imagine others doing that role better than her, if they give the actress some leeway to play.
Same goes for Luke, only more so.
Harrison Ford is the only character that isn't easily replaced. But I'd rather give a new face a chance than see the old man stumble through a scifi movie.

[Stitch]

I just picked T2 because it's commonly thought of as a superior sequel, although I really have no horse in that race. Gremlins 2, however, is pure cinematic perfection.

Also: it seems fett doesn't really want to have a discussion as much as use TTLG as his own private street corner from which to harangue hapless passers by.

[zacharias]

( I still think David Lynch should've accepted the job for ROTJ)

Oh stop it with this 'Lynch should have done ROTJ' nonsense. It's not his thing, he would never have done it in a million years. And even if in some alternate universe he's directing ROTJ he's going so perversely weird with it deliberately that the studio is stepping in and putting the kybosh on his version anyway.

[Stitch]

And I'd rather see that than some nerd bollocks Boba Fett escaped the pit after all circle jerk.

Also, this ^^^

[fett]

No, because Koyla is the only one that has legitimately answered my question. You guys are all, "Hur hur, Lucas sucks, Disney will make it better," and not acknowledging the fact that this isn't a "fresh new start" but rather an ill-conceived money grab to make 3 movies that should have been made in the 80's with the same actors if it was going to happen. Honestly, I would be all for it if they said, "Hey, we're going to do movies set 100 years later with a new cast of characters." But they're not. Thier intent is to use Lucas' half-assed "writing notes" to continue a story that is finished. There's not much wondering if it will be better because of new ideas, new people, etc. - the only thing to wonder is if it will work to have brand new actors playing beloved characters fighting against the all powerful Anakin Skywalker and his Empire. Oh wait, THAT STORY IS FINISHED. Is there something worth seeing these characters do that necessitates a film? The Thrawn trilogy wasn't near as epic as the movies which is why it worked brilliantly as a novel.

So, no, it's not my street corner. I'm asking for discussion about this particular problem - not "hey, maybe it'll be better because Pixar."

@VA - sorry, I missed your post earlier. No, I would not want to direct THIS SW film. The X-Wing series? Sure. Something set in this universe? Sure. But would I want to resurrect a 20 year old cast of characters using different actors and try to figure out what to do with them now that they've saved the universe from the Empire, winning the ultimate victory? No. And any director would have to be nuts to take that job. I'd much rather see a Smith or McFarlane do it, but my guess is that they won't be too thrilled about what Disney plans to do. If they could come in with new characters and a new story great. But continuing on from ROTJ is money-grabbing ass-hattery at it's finest. It makes no sense, casting nor story-wise. Consider this - Lucas could have picked any era to make an animated movie and TV series and what did he chose? The Clone Wars era. Why is that? Because there is no more story to tell with the original trilogy. There's nowhere to go with it after Darth Vader and the Emperor are dead.

So sure, make as many Star Wars movies as you want. Tell backstories of the original characters. Tell side-stories. Do an alternate history revision/re-boot/whatever. But going forward from ROTJ without the same actors is about the most asinine idea I've ever heard.

[ZylonBane]

Sequels that were better than the film before it:

Also:

Evil Dead II
X-Men 2
Hot Shots Part Deux
The Road Warrior
Aliens (well, different and also very good)
Wrath of Khaaaaaaaaaaan
Bill & Ted's Bogus Journey
Godfather Part II

[Phatose]

No, because Koyla is the only one that has legitimately answered my question. You guys are all, "Hur hur, Lucas sucks, Disney will make it better," and not acknowledging the fact that this isn't a "fresh new start" but rather an ill-conceived money grab to make 3 movies that should have been made in the 80's with the same actors if it was going to happen. Honestly, I would be all for it if they said, "Hey, we're going to do movies set 100 years later with a new cast of characters." But they're not. Thier intent is to use Lucas' half-assed "writing notes" to continue a story that is finished. There's not much wondering if it will be better because of new ideas, new people, etc. - the only thing to wonder is if it will work to have brand new actors playing beloved characters fighting against the all powerful Anakin Skywalker and his Empire. Oh wait, THAT STORY IS FINISHED. Is there something worth seeing these characters do that necessitates a film? The Thrawn trilogy wasn't near as epic as the movies which is why it worked brilliantly as a novel.

Well, the empire is finished, sort of. But you've now got a galaxy with a giant power void, 1 jedi in the entire universe to do anything resembling peacekeeping, in a place where there are hugely powerful criminal overlords and the space nazis who kept them from getting too out of hand just got blowed up real good.

And as far as we know, it will be a generation down the line, the same way 3->4 was. 1-3 were as much about Obi-wan as the were about Anakin, and while Obi-wan was in 4, it wasn't about him. You can certainly go places using those same characters, while not having it be about them - Borderlands 2 did that pretty well with the Borderlands 1 cast.

Plus, I mean....previous movies are only limitations on what you can do if you give a shit about internal consistency. And Lucas....well, he gives precisely zero fucks about that.

[SubJeff]

Is there something worth seeing these characters do that necessitates a film?

Lucas had always sketched out the story in a 9 part arc, hadn't he? I thought we had part 4,5 and 6, then 1,2 and 3, with him having already planned 7,8 and 9 back when he started the whole thing.

So do we know if the characters from RotJ will still be pivotal? They could go down a New Jedi era route, or a Solo and Lea's kids (who will be royalty, no?) going off the rails, or anything. Anything. In many ways its just as open (as far as we are concerned) as the universe was when 1000 nerds decided to write "novels" (if you can call them that. I call them books, insofar as they are words and stories that are bound and sold).

[Slasher]

In the books, 2 of the 3 Solo children get skewered. So I doubt Disney will be doing any adaptations of that. The characters from RotJ remain pivotal, if for no other reason than their presence sells more of said books. Oh, and I think Ackbar died of old age somewhere along the way.

[Phatose]

Well, I don't think "Crown Prince of the debris field formerly known as Alderaan" is really gonna impress anybody.

It sure as hell won't treat any of the EU like it mattered one bit - Lucas has always been pretty clear that he don't give two shits about that.


But what's really the worst that could happen? He just says 'fuck it', and uses the CLU CGI from TRON on everybody?........er....well, shit.