The New Face of the Thief - a visual AI overhaul

[FireMage]

Alright! Thank you! ^^

for flags I use Motion Workshop, but it can work only with biped... And if for spider motion, everything is okay.. Biped are a bit messy ^^'

Sooo... I'll ask him if I got time!

About flags, because it can help anyway for non-biped motion.
I just need to know what value correspond to flags! ^^ And the adress to look for! I can help myself for the rest!
(For exemple: If for a corpse falling sound I have to replace a FF to A0 etc) ^^

More test needed! x)

[PinkDot]

Alright! Thank you! ^^

for flags I use Motion Workshop, but it can work only with biped... And if for spider motion, everything is okay.. Biped are a bit messy ^^'

Sooo... I'll ask him if I got time!

About flags, because it can help anyway for non-biped motion.
I just need to know what value correspond to flags! ^^ And the adress to look for! I can help myself for the rest!
(For exemple: If for a corpse falling sound I have to replace a FF to A0 etc) ^^

More test needed! x)

To edit flags in Hex editor, open an .MI file and:
1) Change number of flags in address 68h (=104 decimal) [integer]
2) For every flag just add a pair of integers at the end of the file:

a) Frame numer [integer]

b) Flag Type [integer]

Flag Types are as follows:

 Standing         =       1
 LeftFootfall     =       2
 RightFootfall    =       4
 LeftFootUp       =       8
 RightFootUp      =      16
 FireRelease      =      32
 CanInterrupt     =      64
 StartMotionHere  =     128
 EndMotionHere    =     256
 BlankTag1        =     512
 BlankTag2        =    1024
 BlankTag3        =    2048
 Trigger1         =    4096
 Trigger2         =    8192
 Trigger3         =   16384
 Trigger4         =   32768
 Trigger5         =   65536
 Trigger6         =  131072
 Trigger7         =  262144
 Trigger8         =  524288

So add them together if you want to combine more than one flag.

[R Soul]

Trigger 5: Collapse on floor

Trigger 7: Draw back bow - start
Trigger 8: Draw back bow - end

[PinkDot]

Trigger 5: Collapse on floor

Trigger 7: Draw back bow - start
Trigger 8: Draw back bow - end

Thanks R Soul - didn't know that.
Do you know the meaning of the remaining triggers?

[R Soul]

No, but I worked those out by viewing the motion in Weyoun's editor, with the 'interactive' option set, and noticing the checkboxes changing state. Another way of finding triggers is to search the sound schema files for the word 'motion', which finds 'Event Motion' tags, and then you can search the motion schema files for related motions.

E.g. Mischsfx.sch has:
//SWING LEFT
schema sw_left
archetype PLYR_WEAPON...

I then found a motion name if PlayerSword.mos (ph212203) and loaded it in the motion editor.

Trigger 2 gets selected for one frame. The motion doesn't play so it will have to be imported into 3dSmax or Blender (Telliamed wrote a import script) to see what the motion really is.

[Ricebug]

I don't want to de-rail this topic, but something that's been discussed many times is the quadrupedal motions, of which, Thief has none.

But can a motion skeleton be made to crawl/walk on hands and knees, thereby imitating the 4-legged motion?

[PinkDot]

No, but I worked those out by viewing the motion in Weyoun's editor (...)

Actually, here's how I'm going to check all the triggers. I have dumped MI info from all the Thief motions into an spreadsheet. I have a list of flags for all the motions there.

As for the 'Collapse on floor' flag - it may be Trigger 4 actually (32768), as it appears in all the motions with a "die" in the file name.

You can download the spreadsheet if you're interested:
MS Excel: http://www.mediafire.com/view/iab4i7...nfoDumpExt.xls

Open Office Calc: http://www.mediafire.com/view/17tzi7...nfoDumpExt.ods

So far I can go through the bipedal motions, so no player arms yet. Will go back with the results.

can a motion skeleton be made to crawl/walk on hands and knees, thereby imitating the 4-legged motion?

Yes, it can. First of all - somebody has done this around a year ago or so.
And secondly - humen, burricks and frogbeasts share the same skeleton, which is by default posed differently. I got my test Basso jump like a frogbeast actually...
It looks stiff though, because there's only 1 joint for a spine and 1 for neck and head together, but yes, we can have a creature standing and walking on 4 legs.

What will be more difficult is to make dogs or horses actually behave convincingly. This has more to do with an AI rather than motions. So a change to the engine would be required. Unless we're happy with some basic actions, of course, like walking etc..

[LarryG]

Unless we're happy with some basic actions, of course, like walking etc..

I'm sure that would make some of us happy for a while. Dogs, cats, goats and horses would be great.

[nemyax]

Don't feet get special treatment from the engine? This might affect four-legged locomotion, because hands, used as extra feet, are not so privileged.

[PinkDot]

Not sure if it's feet or the mesh bounding box...?

[Aminosav]

update ?

[SeriousToni]

Yes, a positive update please!

[PinkDot]

The work is still in progress...
Hope that's positive enough!

[SeriousToni]

Yes it is - thanks =)

[PinkDot]

Hi All,
I can't believe I am writing this, but this tool is getting really close to the beta stage! I got the rig building tools ready - just need to wrap it nicely, so people don't get stuck on installation...
It's going to be a version 0.9, meaning, that some of the features will be still in progress. Namely - so far I have focused on biped import/export. Other types of the rigs will work eventually, but at this moment they may cause some errors, as each creature type may need some exceptions etc. Anyway, bipeds will be 95% of what people need.

So, my question is - are there any volunteers to beta test it? I probably would need 3 or so people. I should be ready to release beta in around a week time or so.
In the meantime, you can:
- get comfortable with 3sdmax and its animation tools (you need at least Max 2012, but it may work backwards to Max 2010).
- make sure you know how to add custom motions to the game

I'm looking for somebody to try it with T2, T1 and potentially with SS2 AIs.

If you're interested, let me know.

Thanks!

[nemyax]

That's fabulous news. Do you know if the Max trial works on a VMware virtual machine? If it does, I might take your tools for a spin.

[PinkDot]

Nemyax - I don't know, to be honest. Are you on Mac? 3dsmax might be heavy for a virtual machine. On the other hand, these tools use only a small fraction of 3dsmax potential, so they don't require much memory and CPU power. I'd say give it a go and see if it works. My friend had successfully run AutoCAD on some virtual machine.

[nemyax]

I will try. Is there a tutorial or something about this item?

make sure you know how to add custom motions to the game

That's going to be the hardest part.

[PinkDot]

I will try. Is there a tutorial or something about this item?

You mean tutorial for running 3dsmax on a virtual machine? Or for my animation tools? If the latter, then yes, I will come up with something.

That's going to be the hardest part.

Not really - once you set it up, it's a matter of executing one file and copy-pasting a few more. You also create an entry in a motion schema file, which is a modification of existing motion schema. And you do it once per motion really.
At some stage, I might automate it too, but for now, if you download Shadowspawn's motion database editor and follow the instructions included, you'll know all you need.

[nemyax]

You mean tutorial for running 3dsmax on a virtual machine?

I meant the Dark Engine-related stuff. (I know my way around Max.) Thanks for the advice.
But how do I test the motions in the engine once they're defined?

[PinkDot]

But how do I test the motions in the engine once they're defined?

You can set up a conversation which plays the specified motion. Or you can take a shortcut similar to the one I took. I used an existing mission - in this case Yandros' MotionTag Demo (which has that motion testing feel already ) and just replaced a name of one of the motion schemas with mine. As simple as that.
Anyway, I can provide more detailed instructions to whoever is betatesting.

[SeriousToni]

I posted these good news over at The Dark Mod forums, since there are maybe some model folks over there to try out this awesome new tool!
Thanks again for your great work! Keep 'em coming!

[PinkDot]

Thanks.
Just to clarify - this tool is about motion import/export only. It can import meshes, but can't export them (yet). Think of it as a replacement of Motion Editor. I'll post some quick video so people can see it in action to get some idea.

[nemyax]

It's working fine so far.

[voodoo47]

dopefish!