TTLG|Thief|Bioshock|System Shock|Deus Ex|Mobile
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 28

Thread: Arched Ceiling Technique?

  1. #1
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: LosAngeles: Between Amusements

    Arched Ceiling Technique?

    Does anyone have a technique for building arched ceilings in DromEd like this one? Or do I need to invent one?

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Glasgow-University-Cloisters.jpg 
Views:	19 
Size:	196.7 KB 
ID:	1621

  2. #2
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: Formby, NW England
    For the vaulted shapes I think you can use lots of intersecting pyramids, similar to using wedges.

    The top pyramids should (more or less) touch diagonally, like this:


    Once a group is done it'll look like this:


    In this case the pyramids are 8 sided whereas the columns are 16 sided. To cover their intersection, I used a small relief cylinder where the main one meets the lowest pyramid.

    This is the mis file with the above brushes:
    http://catmanofiowa.com/RSoul/vaulted.zip

    Good luck with the texture mapping. You could try to make it out of an object if collisions won't be major issue. It might give you smoother lighting too.

  3. #3
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: LosAngeles: Between Amusements
    Thanks! I was already thinking of overlaying some non-physical objects to make it all pretty looking, but wanted to have a physical base that someone could bump up against. I was thinking of a subtractive process, but your additive one looks much simpler. Thanks for the suggestion!

  4. #4
    NewDark 64 Contest Winner
    Registered: Jul 2005
    Location: Locked Inside Dromed
    Here's another technique, it's a solid rectangle spanning the space with the air-brush cylinder cutting through. That will create the ribbing along the edges.


  5. #5
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2006
    Location: Italy
    Wow! It's fantastic!

    Many times I had tried something like this but my technique was wrong, until now!!!

    Thank you!

  6. #6
    Desperately Dodgy Moderator
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Fields of bluegrass
    Quote Originally Posted by LarryG View Post
    Thanks! I was already thinking of overlaying some non-physical objects to make it all pretty looking, but wanted to have a physical base that someone could bump up against.
    Assuming the player can't get up near the ceiling, the physical brushes could simply be cylinders if you're going to cover them with objects. However you'll need to remember that an object whose centroid is in solid is not rendered.

  7. #7
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: LosAngeles: Between Amusements
    I ended up making the "groin" arch and the column as separate objects and assembling them in DromEd. I tried doing them with brushes in DromEd, but I kept running into rendering problems because that forced too many cells to occur, and I couldn't find any way to get the cell counts down.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	dump079m.jpg 
Views:	90 
Size:	66.1 KB 
ID:	1623

    Now I'm going to see if I can make a really big hall this way

  8. #8
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2012
    Location: Germany
    wow that looks great

    lets make the mines of moria ^^

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by LarryG View Post
    I ended up making the "groin" arch and the column as separate objects and assembling them in DromEd. I tried doing them with brushes in DromEd, but I kept running into rendering problems because that forced too many cells to occur, and I couldn't find any way to get the cell counts down.

    Now I'm going to see if I can make a really big hall this way
    You should really try doing it with static meshes, all the parts. Everything you build in CSG (BSP) is treated by the engine as unique, while static meshes can be instanced many times and only the original piece takes up video memory.

    If anyone's interested, try this technique in modeling program of your choice:



    And have something like this instead.



    This was made with 2 meshes, a 148 poly column and modular 144 poly vault ceiling part
    Last edited by Judith; 4th Mar 2013 at 05:42.

  10. #10
    Vertical Contest Winner 2009
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: The Great White North
    the new uv texture controls in dromed 1.19 will help you texture these, the ability to stretch textures and the new alignment modes are very useful. most of the work of this setup is in the texture. if you can find a nice texture for this that aligns to your brushes it will be perfect.

  11. #11
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2009
    Location: WearyTaffer
    That looks great!

  12. #12
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: Toronto
    Quote Originally Posted by LarryG View Post
    I ended up making the "groin" arch and the column as separate objects and assembling them in DromEd. I tried doing them with brushes in DromEd, but I kept running into rendering problems because that forced too many cells to occur, and I couldn't find any way to get the cell counts down.
    There is a command "Set_Grid 1" (or something along those lines). I harp on about it from time to time (I feel it's really under-rated). Personally I have it hot-keyed.

    This will force all the vertices in your brush to snap to the grid. This is the only command that I'm aware of that will actually alter the shape of your brush. I find it really handy for lining up corners of pyramids or cylinders. Notice in RSoul's top view pic, the corners of the pyramids are slightly overlapping? With the set_grid command those would line up and I'd imagine clean up many cells.

    Edit: Mind you, that pic does look pretty damn good.

  13. #13
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: LosAngeles: Between Amusements
    Quote Originally Posted by Judith View Post
    You should really try doing it with static meshes, all the parts. Everything you build in CSG (BSP) is treated by the engine as unique, while static meshes can be instanced many times and only the original piece takes up video memory.
    That's what I said I ended up doing.
    Quote Originally Posted by LarryG View Post
    I ended up making the "groin" arch and the column as separate objects and assembling them in DromEd.
    Lighting and shadows on object brushes are not a good as on terrain brushes, and all object brushes get a cubic solid physics, so for curved surfaces like the arches, you can't cozy up to them in the same way that you can with terrain brushwork without extra work. But in this case and for my needs, static mesh object brushes should work just fine.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	dump081m.jpg 
Views:	60 
Size:	95.1 KB 
ID:	1624

  14. #14
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2004
    Location: Ireland/Poland
    OK, I just couldn't help myself - I opened Dromed yesterday and did some arched ceiling out of brushes. I wanted to go for something more organic, or at least detailed and more round (if word 'round' even exists in Dromed...). Plus I like definitive light and shadow - something that objects can't have in our beloved game engine. But this technique is not really the way to go in a real map (at least on a large scale), as I have used nearly 1000 brushes(!!!) for that room, but I just wanted to see if New Dromed would handle it. And it did with no problems. Sometimes polycount exceeded 3000. Here are some screengrabs anyway:


    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ps07861174.png
    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ps05d314da.png
    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...psddd6fb49.png

    and screenshots from Dromed:
    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ps5f1b0c2f.png
    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ps81f1decb.png
    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ps9a7e9cb3.png
    Last edited by PinkDot; 26th Oct 2013 at 16:39.

  15. #15
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: LosAngeles: Between Amusements
    I'm impressed.

  16. #16
    Member
    Registered: May 2006
    Location: Russia
    Floor seems similar either with textures and in cell view...
    I think it CAN be used in some special occasions. First of all, anyone can reduce the count of columns... you have 5x5 hall, and 4x4 will eat much less brushes and will look almost so impressive.
    A good use of wider 1.19 limits, imho.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by PinkDot View Post
    OK, I just couldn't help myself - I opened Dromed yesterday and did some arched ceiling out of brushes. I wanted to go for something more organic, or at least detailed and more round (if word 'round' even exists in Dromed...). Plus I like definitive light and shadow - something that objects can't have in our beloved game engine. But this technique is not really the way to go in a real map (at least on a large scale), as I have used nearly 1000 brushes(!!!) for that room, but I just wanted to see if New Dromed would handle it. And it did with no problems. Sometimes polycount exceeded 3000. Here are some screengrabs anyway.
    Now that's the stuff

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by LarryG View Post
    Does anyone have a technique for building arched ceilings in DromEd like this one? Or do I need to invent one?

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Glasgow-University-Cloisters.jpg 
Views:	19 
Size:	196.7 KB 
ID:	1621

    interesting thread
    the groin vault can be made even so and they are more close to the original using only brushes,my St Edgar cathedral was made with UDK first!






    using cones of 32 sides in base

  19. #19
    Member
    Registered: Sep 1999
    Location: Portland, OR
    Hey LarryG, what method did you end up settling on?

  20. #20
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: LosAngeles: Between Amusements
    I cheated. The part the player can reach is modeled in DromEd. The groin arches themselves are objects that fit together like jigsaw puzzle pieces. I decided not to worry about someone shooting an arrow at a stone groin arch and getting upset that it breaks seemingly in mid-air or imperfect shadowing way up there. Tough tookies to that person. Besides my main purpose was for a set to shoot a briefing movie and the arches may never see the light of day in an actual mission.


    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	dump017.jpg 
Views:	29 
Size:	202.1 KB 
ID:	2172

  21. #21
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2012
    For a simplier version you can check out my mission "The Artifact Returns". I made a dungeon with a nice looking ceiling and it was very easy to make

    Edit: Actually now that I'm looking at the screenshots in the topic it's probably not really what you're aiming for. I made some airbrush cylinders and made them so that they crossed each other horizontally and vertically, with some space between them which makes the pillars.

    https://youtu.be/H8yTw__tf4I?t=15m36s (15:36)

    A few minutes later (20:45) you can see a different looking room using the same tactic.
    Last edited by Niborius; 10th Aug 2015 at 16:46.

  22. #22
    Member
    Registered: Sep 1999
    Location: Portland, OR
    Quote Originally Posted by LarryG View Post
    I cheated. The part the player can reach is modeled in DromEd.
    Yeah, you actually passed me the mission so I can look at it. I just thought you may have done something different since then. I have to things I want to try. So it is better to not have it as one object correct?


    Quote Originally Posted by LarryG View Post
    Besides my main purpose was for a set to shoot a briefing movie and the arches may never see the light of day in an actual mission.
    Oh well then yeah, no issue there with oddities for the player.


    Quote Originally Posted by Niborius View Post
    ...I made some airbrush cylinders and made them so that they crossed each other horizontally and vertically, with some space between them which makes the pillars.
    Yep, this is the method I've been doing, but I wanted to take advantage of some newdark power. I may do something like.. this method but have a giant air brush cut the columns in half, exposing a square flat underside to then be supported by fancy column objects.

  23. #23
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: LosAngeles: Between Amusements
    The reason not to have it as one object is that objects can only have one of three physical shape types: OBB (or rectangular solid), Sphere (which can be up to two connected/overlapping spheres), or Sphere-hat (like sphere, but with a top that you can stand on, crates and barrels have a sphere-hat type). That's it. For most "decorative" and immobile objects, OBB is the type of choice, but that means its physical shape is essentially a cube. Not many things are truly cube shaped (tables, doors, stools, etc.) so a cube is a pretty lousy shape to have to have for an arch, say. You can deal with this in a couple of ways.

    1. is to give your object no physics at all. This means that the player can walk through it like it wasn't there. This isn't a bad approach for things like door frames because the underlying solid brushes and air brushes which get overlaid by the door frame object provide enough physical interaction to the player and other objects in the world. One thing to be careful about is that the centroid of object must be in an airbrush for the object to be rendered.

    2. is to break the shape into pieces such that each piece can be reasonably interacted with as a rectangular solid without totally breaking player immersion. Each piece is a cube, but when added together the stacked cubes sort of resemble the real shape well enough that a player will accept them.

    3. is to combine 1, 2, and regular brushwork to support each other in the illusion of the desired object. That's what I did with the groin arches. The tops that you can't interact with are OBB cubes. They look fine, but if they were where you could walk up to them, you couldn't reach them because of the invisible cube shaped physics model surrounding each of them. The pillars at ground level are just regular brush work so the physics are great. If I has wanted to have fluted columns, I could have put an object with no physics over the brush work to give the illusion of a fluted column, but to do so I would need to have an airbrush in the center of the pillars so that it would get rendered. Dromed doesn't like objects that aren't placed in airbrushes, even ones with no physics, but sometimes you can fool it. I've yet to go that far for a column. Door frames, yes, I've done that, but then again the doorway has a very natural airbrush going through the middle. And a doorway can be arched, so you can get a very nice keystone looking arch doing this. But that's back to the first approach.

  24. #24
    Member
    Registered: Sep 1999
    Location: Portland, OR
    Ignore textures, just a example. This is cylinders cutting-in above the 10 DU high air room, leaving flat points. Then I just put column objects snugg-fit under them. The bbox are only 1x1 DU so it blocks Garrett but mostly stays out of the way of getting annoyingly caught on it. I do this with other OBB items in my FM because player camera can't tell that his foot isn't stopping at wider bottom.



    BTW, what is the use for submodels? I saw it in the dialog in the object properties when selecting type obb

  25. #25
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: LosAngeles: Between Amusements
    submodels are for defining two radii on sphere or sphere-hat types. On OBB the 6 "submodels" are the six sides of the rectangular solid. You don't want to mess with the submopds on OBB, but you can add a submod to shpere ore sphere-hat if you need to make an irregular object one of those types. Nameless Voice had a post about that a few years back, explaining how to do it.

    Yeah, doing it the way you did gives a 4-sided shape to the column supported arches. Doing them my way gave a circular shape (16 sides IIRC) instead. Nothing wrong with 4 sided arches, but I had wanted something more.
    Last edited by LarryG; 11th Aug 2015 at 00:52.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •