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Thread: why broheadarrows freeze in mid air?

  1. #1
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: France (Saint-Gobain)

    why broheadarrows freeze in mid air?

    i got this odd situation in one of my missions, where when i use the bow to shoot broheadarrows they freeze in mid air or when i shoot against a stone surfaces i can pick up the arrow agani, anyone knows how to fix this?

  2. #2
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: Formby, NW England
    The second problem sounds like the Death Stage 12 bug, but that's one of the things fixed in the NewDark patch. Are you using NewDark? If so, hopefully it's a different issue, otherwise the DS12 bug is still with us.

  3. #3
    ZylonBane
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: ZylonBane
    Wasn't Brohead one of the enemy factions in Brutal Legend?

  4. #4
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: LosAngeles: Between Amusements
    I believe that if your "stone" texture is not defined in Object Hierarchy > Textures then the arrows won't break. You need to make sure that all of your custom textures are appropriately defined.

  5. #5
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2008
    Location: Deutschland/Germany

    I'm afraid this problem (which occured during a beta test) seems to concern all kinds of arrows. Broadhead arrows can be shot against an AI, the AI dies but the arrows keep floating in the air. A rope arrow shot on the ground makes a collision sound but can be picked up again. Weird ...
    My FM campaigns Garrett's Young Years XTra, Reunion With Basso
    Want your upcoming FM translated in foreign languages?

  6. #6
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: LosAngeles: Between Amusements
    I believe the command set game_mode_backup 0 run from DromEd edit mode command window (or on the command line from game mode) will let you experience the problem in a DromEd run-through, and when you exit back to edit mode, all the changes made while in game mode will persist (DON'T SAVE AFTER USING THIS!!!), and you can examine the arrows to see if there is anything unusual about them (say Death Stage 12). Just be sure to exit DromEd without saving over your mission.

    EDIT: If it is a Death Stage 12 problem, you could try NVDeathStageFix:

    This script monitors objects in the mission for the DeathStage property, and automatically removes it if it deems it to be inappropriate (the only known legitimate use for the DeathStage property is on objects with zero hit points, so it is left alone in that case). This should hopefully eliminate the DeathStage 12 bug.
    This script can be applied to any object single in the mission. The player or starting point might be good choices. Having the script on multiple objects in the same mission is untested.
    Last edited by LarryG; 11th Jun 2013 at 18:06.

  7. #7
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: Texas
    I'm having a similar problem. On occasion when I shoot an arrow or drop any object including AI the objects freeze in mid-air without dropping. Info_window shows that I have ~1900 objects free and I'm sure my mission isn't using that many when I go into game mode. Exiting back to editor and back into game mode usually clears up the problem but it never really goes away.

    I'm currently using dromed 1.26, and I didn't have this problem in the past when using dromed 1.25 and missions larger than this one.

  8. #8
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2018
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    If it isn't an issue with brush IDs, check for unusual Physics>Model>Controls property on the archetype of any of these problematic objects. If it's affecting a lot of different objects, try checking from the highest level down (start at Object (-1) and go down). A Controls property with "Location,Rotation" might have accidentally been added to some high-level archetype.

    For arrows specifically, this is often caused by changing the stock Faces Velocity/Initial Velocity properties (Faces Velocity = TRUE; Initial Velocity X:60,Y:0,Z:0), where Controls "Location,Rotation" should be used instead.

  9. #9
    Dóttirin klęšist oft móšur möttli
    Registered: Apr 2015
    We don't have enough informations to guess what's going on.
    As Larry wrote, gam_mode_backup 0 is the most important tool to find out what happens ingame.
    Then
    1. Look at the hanging object itself
    2. Query for death stage properties after some minutes
    3. Info_window- compare the data without gam_mode_backup 0

    As a instant measure, just create some objects in a blue room or solid and add tweq--delete (on) property, so they willl be destroyed on sim start. This can help.

  10. #10
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: Texas
    I'll provide more info later, but i remember many years ago when the Deathstage 12 property would appear on ceryain objects but that prevented objects from being removed from the map. It never had any effect on objects simply being dropped or arrows remaining at the point of creation.

    I figured that if there is Location, Rotation added somewhere high up in the hierarchy, this problem would happen every time I go into game mode. It occurs 1-3 times every 30th or so time going into game mode. I might have added Location, Rotation on a rope arrow in an armory but that was on a concrete object that I rarely pick up.

    I'll post again later about my findings.

  11. #11
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: Texas


    I went into and out of game mode until I could get an arrow to stick. After running the game_mode_backup 0 command I collapsed the properties until I reached Physical and nothing looked out of the ordinary. Location, Rotation was not present anywhere in the Physics Model entries in the hierarchy of the broadhead. I also KO a female servant and pcked her up. When I tried to drop her she just remained in the air.

  12. #12
    Dóttirin klęšist oft móšur möttli
    Registered: Apr 2015
    Post info_window and object counts in dark.cfg

  13. #13
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2011
    Location: Ferrol - Spain
    Now I remember having that problem in mission Lady Rowena v2.0.

  14. #14
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: Texas
    Quote Originally Posted by Unna Oertdottir View Post
    Post info_window and object counts in dark.cfg
    Something I forgot to do earlier. I'll get that up soon.

  15. #15
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: Texas
    Ok it took two days before this would happen again. This time it happened after I aligned some textures on walls and added two solid brushes. I did the work in a Me-Only area and then Optimized the whole map. After going into game mode this time the error occurred. Even a nearby archer couldn't fire any arrows at me.


    This is before going into game mode.


    This is after typing game_mode_backup 0 and going back to editor mode.

    ; object counts
    obj_min -18192
    obj_max 5000
    max_refs 24000

  16. #16
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2018
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Try this:

    obj_min -18192
    obj_max 8184
    max_refs 47740

    I believe this is the current advised max. Though I'm unsure whether that will affect anything; I defer to Unna for actual knowledge here.

  17. #17
    Dóttirin klęšist oft móšur möttli
    Registered: Apr 2015
    Try the settings that DirkBogan posted, restart DromEd and do "complete processing" to compress_br_ids.
    This should solve the issues.
    Last edited by Unna Oertdottir; 11th Sep 2019 at 02:44.

  18. #18
    Desperately Dodgy Moderator
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Dragonsreach
    I believe we went well over 50k on max_refs in the Godbreaker swamp mission, but that 47k figure should give John plenty of clearance. Increasing the obj_max over 8k may actually be more important right now, but it is best to do both. Also, John, be advised that I believe you need to include these cfg changes in your mission ZIP (in an fm.cfg file, for example).

  19. #19
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: Texas
    ok thanks for the tip Russ.

  20. #20
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: France (Saint-Gobain)
    I see i have forgot to thank the members who replied to me when i have posted this topic, i know its a bit late but i still want to thank all those who have replied to me back then with helpful answers. Thank you!

  21. #21
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2018
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    My 'object counts' suggestion was based on this post here: https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148738, including ffox's findings here: https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthre...=1#post2159337 Increasing max_refs to 50000 may be okay if it worked in Godbreaker, but I don't think obj_max above 8191 works at all.

    If you are still having the problem, Tannar and Pukey made an important discovery here: https://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthre...=1#post2405662 Try running the resize_obj_id_space command. Maybe also do compress_br_ids manually; it may not be included with your optimize command.

  22. #22
    Desperately Dodgy Moderator
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Dragonsreach
    In my experience resize_obj_id_space is not required any more, just changing the value in a cfg file is sufficient. However I may well be wrong about that and have just been lucky in the past.

  23. #23
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: Texas
    Ok thanks everyone for the help. Russ I agree so I'll try the resize_obj_id_space command if the problem persists. I changed my obj_min, obj_max and max_refs according to DirkBogen's post and so far everything has been working fine.

    Edit: looks like I'll have to try resize_obj_id_space because the object freeze happened again.
    Last edited by john9818a; 13th Sep 2019 at 14:34.

  24. #24
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: Texas
    Well I tried all of the suggestions here and thought all was good, but today the arrows got stuck in mid-air again. If I go back to editor then into game mode again the problem goes away, so its an intermittant problem.

  25. #25
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2018
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Is this only affecting your work-in-progress FM, not any others?

    It's a pain in the neck, but I'd advise doing a fresh install. You never know when a weird bug might turn out to be game-breaking for installs that lack the issue.

    Given that we don't know the cause, and if it's only affecting your work-in-progress FM, it's possible that it'll be hard-baked into the FM upon release. A fresh install would at least confirm whether it's symptomatic of your unique install, or your FM.

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