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Thread: Another CM Bites the Dust

  1. #1
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2009
    Location: The Spiraling Sea

    Another CM Bites the Dust

    We're sorry to announce that Adam has decided to leave Eidos-Montréal to pursue new opportunities. ~ Valerie Bourdeau
    It looks like EM's troubles continue with the announcement of b1skit (Adam Badke) leaving.

    First there was René, then Kyle...now Adam.

    Considering the overwhelming negative response towards NuThief, will anyone dare become CM #4?

  2. #2
    No offense to him personally, but I don't think Adam really ever "got it' as far as being CM for a game like this. His posts were often bush league and unprofessional and he never really respected the old school fans. I PMed him several times over on the Eidos forums and he never responded. In all his videos and interviews on youtube, he always looked nervous and out of place. I think he was just a bit out of his league on this one.
    Last edited by Brethren; 17th Oct 2013 at 02:49.

  3. #3
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2002
    Location: London / London / London
    yo I'llllllllll do it where do I sign up? i mean obvs not here. plus I don't want to actually have to care about doing anything. but you know, spiritually, i'm deffo IN.

  4. #4
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    It's inherently a temporary/transition type of job anyway, so I'm not surprised it has a highish turnover rate, quite aside from the game itself.

  5. #5
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Location: Prince Edward Island, Canada
    This really doesn't come as any surprise to me. I think being a CM on this game would have to be a rather unpleasant experience. Can't really prove anything but my instincts told me that he was just spewing out disingenuous spin 99% of the time. Not his fault, it's his job to do it, but his unprofessional behavior at times really didn't help endear him to the fan base at all.

  6. #6
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2009
    Location: The Spiraling Sea
    Ohhh, the memories...

    Originally Posted by b1skit

    LOL! Everybody needs to calm down and relax.

    This is such a non-issue. You can absolutely jump and move through the world fluidly and freely. The game has been designed specifically to achieve this goal. You're looking at this like you're losing a feature, but the reality is that you're gaining dozens more.

    Anybody claiming the game will somehow be ruined because you can't free jump, when there is no reason to be jumping, would have to agree that Gran Tourismo is ruined because you can't choose to pop the trunk - right? No, of course not.

    Saying that immersion is broken because of the absence of a feature allowing you to physically break out of character is akin to dividing by zero. Garrett would never randomly hop, skip and jump through the world. He just wouldn't. Honestly, if you need to spam the jump button continually for no reason to truly feel immersed a game, or need to be able to randomly pop yourself into the air like a grasshopper with the hiccups - then hell, maybe Thief isn't for you. But, check out Team Fortress 2 - it's free to play and you'll probably love it!

    As someone who has played the game more than anybody else outside of the dev team, I can assure you that free jumping would ruin immersion. Pogo hopping through the world like a shop manequin on a spring would seem incredibly out of place, dated and overly simplistic within the context of the rest of the rich and tactile mechanics that have been created soley to make you feel like a Master Thief slipping through the world.

    Like I said yesterday, this is not tomb raider, this is not The Last of Us, this is not an early 2000's game with cheesy pre-programmed hot spots. Forget what you know about the word "contextual" - it's been turned into a dirty word of late, but don't make the mistake of judging Thief on how "contextual" actions have been handled in other, completely unrelated games.

    Consider that this only has become an 'issue' on the forums here after someone quoted a snippet of a text interview. It was never brought up when you guys first saw the E3 gameplay footage. Nor was it ever brought up as an issue by any of the journalists who played the game - including the few more 'critical' reports. MT didn't even scream bloody murder or beg the team to change the feature after he played the game. Why? For 1 very simple reason: It's just not an issue. Nobody felt restricted. Nobody felt they were missing anything. Chances are when you're finally playing the game, neither will you!

    You can't free jump just for no reason - but you can jump whenever and wherever you need to jump. It's fluid. It's slick. You tap the jump button in the EXACT same way, with the exact same timing as if you had a free jump. In fact, if you weren't told that you couldn't free jump, and only tried to jump when you needed to jump to, you would have NO idea that you couldn't bunny hop around like convulsing jack-in-the-box. It's only when you tap the jump button while standing in the middle of a room with nothing to jump on that you DON'T jump.

    So, I hear you asking, what happens when you DO press the jump button, but there is nothing to jump on?

    You SWOOP!

    It's AWESOME - just like a very small dash. In fact, if Garrett didn't hunker down to avoid being seen, you would say that it feels like a jump, in a way (be clear: It is NOT a jump). The swoop is used to empower stealth gameplay, and can be used in any direction - forwards, backwards, side to side. You can even rotate/change direction while you're swooping. It cannot be spammed for a continual speed boost. It offers total freedom and mobility, completely aligned with the movement and grace of a master thief who makes his living by sneaking from shadow to shadow. Those hoping for Garrett the Master River Dancer will be disappointed, everyone else has nothing to worry about.

    Coincidently, we actually touch on the swoop in a Thief podcast that will be coming out on the last Friday of this month (also news: We'll be releasing Thief podcasts on the last Friday of every month starting this month!)

  7. #7
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    OH MY GAWD! HE SWOOPS!

  8. #8
    Yes, that YOU SWOOP! comment is what really made me realize he's incredibly out of touch with the fanbase. And the LOL made me realize they're not too picky about who they hire for the position. Now, will they even bother hiring a new CM for the last 4 months before release? Or is it this Valerie?

  9. #9
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2009
    Location: The Spiraling Sea
    She said this...

    I'll do my best to keep you informed and entertained until we can introduce you to a new Community Manager. ~ Valerie Bourdeau
    ...I wonder how she will actually entertain us?...

  10. #10
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Wow. What kind of obsessive control freak builds a gameplay mechanic that specifically denies you the ability to do one of the most basic actions imaginable unless they decide it's the right time and place for it? What's next, contextual crouching? Contextual running? Contextual drawing of weapons? If this same logic were applied to the rest of the gameplay, you'd literally be left with a game where all you can do is push the right predetermined buttons at the right moments to complete every mission exactly the way the developer envisioned Garrett doing it, step by step. Of course, we know that logic wasn't applied to the rest of the gameplay -- because no one would find that any fun at all, not even whoever implemented contextual jumping.

    If b1skit and other like-minded people over at EM are so worried about players bunny-hopping all over the place like idiots, what good does contextual jumping do to curb that? Those players will find other ways to make a fool out of Garrett, running around like maniacs, playing peekaboo with guards, and whatever other chaos they can dream up. Seriously, if Garrett's dignity hinged upon what a player with the mentality of a 7-year old with ADHD on a sugar rush decided to make him do, our master thief was doomed from the outset. Fortunately, as it turns out, Garrett's respectability is not defined by how much players decide to spam the jump key when they're incredibly, mind-numbingly bored and too lazy to find actual entertainment. And to whomever had the half-baked idea to implement contextual jumping in the first place...what the hell do you care what players decide to do with their game that they purchased in their own spare time? It's not the developers' responsibility to ensure that players don't do stupid, senseless things in a game. Nor is it, or should it be, their concern. So you know what, b1skit? You're right. This is such a non-issue -- for a game developer to waste time addressing in the first place.

    This is absolutely ridiculous.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Brethren View Post
    And the LOL made me realize they're not too picky about who they hire for the position. Now, will they even bother hiring a new CM for the last 4 months before release?
    Be careful what you wish for, they might elevate our dearly departed friend Viktoria.

  12. #12
    Member
    Registered: May 2013
    Location: New Zealand
    Happy to hear that b1skit has been fired. Never really liked the guy anyway, especially with his completely unprofessional attitude towards the original Thief fanbase. I say, good riddens to him Hopefully the next community manager will treat fans like us with a bit more respect, although I highly doubt it. With a game looking this bad, they're gonna keep spewing out as many lies as they can to save their fleeting careers in the hopes of making as much money as they possibly can.

  13. #13
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by Ceamonks890 View Post
    Never really liked the guy anyway, especially with his completely unprofessional attitude towards the original Thief fanbase.
    Yeah, and I dunno why. We've always been such a charming, levelheaded group of people to work with.

  14. #14
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    I think someone with the username "The Shroud" should be contextually swooped onto the vacant position.

  15. #15
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Why is that, Beleg? I don't remember you and I having any resentments toward each other before. Did you recently acquire some?

  16. #16
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2009
    Location: The Spiraling Sea
    Quote Originally Posted by The Shroud View Post
    Wow. What kind of obsessive control freak builds a gameplay mechanic that specifically denies you the ability to do one of the most basic actions imaginable unless they decide it's the right time and place for it? What's next, contextual crouching? Contextual running? Contextual drawing of weapons? If this same logic were applied to the rest of the gameplay, you'd literally be left with a game where all you can do is push the right predetermined buttons at the right moments to complete every mission exactly the way the developer envisioned Garrett doing it, step by step. Of course, we know that logic wasn't applied to the rest of the gameplay -- because no one would find that any fun at all, not even whoever implemented contextual jumping.

    If b1skit and other like-minded people over at EM are so worried about players bunny-hopping all over the place like idiots, what good does contextual jumping do to curb that? Those players will find other ways to make a fool out of Garrett, running around like maniacs, playing peekaboo with guards, and whatever other chaos they can dream up. Seriously, if Garrett's dignity hinged upon what a player with the mentality of a 7-year old with ADHD on a sugar rush decided to make him do, our master thief was doomed from the outset. Fortunately, as it turns out, Garrett's respectability is not defined by how much players decide to spam the jump key when they're incredibly, mind-numbingly bored and too lazy to find actual entertainment. And to whomever had the half-baked idea to implement contextual jumping in the first place...what the hell do you care what players decide to do with their game that they purchased in their own spare time? It's not the developers' responsibility to ensure that players don't do stupid, senseless things in a game. Nor is it, or should it be, their concern. So you know what, b1skit? You're right. This is such a non-issue -- for a game developer to waste time addressing in the first place.

    This is absolutely ridiculous.
    Right on the money, Shroud...It's a good thing that most in the community are able to realize the truth of what you say...even though, unfortunately, there are still a few that are having a tough time accepting this truth.

  17. #17
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    Quote Originally Posted by The Shroud View Post
    Why is that, Beleg? I don't remember you and I having any resentments toward each other before. Did you recently acquire some?
    This wasn't about resentment, rather about the irony of the Shroud being one of the more questionable new features of T4 while you voiced valid criticism.

    Oh, Vae found the truth (TruTh?) and knows what people think. Again.

  18. #18
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2009
    Location: The Spiraling Sea
    I think it's plainly clear that most would agree with Shroud's statement.

  19. #19
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Quote Originally Posted by Beleg Cúthalion View Post
    This wasn't about resentment, rather about the irony of the Shroud being one of the more questionable new features of T4 while you voiced valid criticism.
    Oh lol. Well that went right over my head. By the way, I actually have no problems with the shroud feature... I mean, because it kind of makes sense. Not because I... Uh... Hey, what's that!

    SWOOP!

  20. #20
    Member
    Registered: May 2003
    Location: Dreaming in Dortmund
    Shroud, I totally agree with you. Well said.

    As for Adam, I had no ill will for him as a human being, I wish him well in his endeavors. As a CM, I disliked him greatly. He seemed disconnected from the Thief series. Didn't understand it, as Vae pointed it out.

  21. #21
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    Quote Originally Posted by Vae View Post
    I think it's plainly clear that most would agree with Shroud's statement.
    That wasn't the problem. The problem was you claiming that a) there was some sort of "truth" and b) the unnerving suggestion that there were again something like good and bad people and the bad people didn't know that contextual jumping was a bad idea in the first place. I have no problem with objective criticism, but opinions presented as fact/truth or the hubris in claiming the privilege of knowing what (and who!) is correct and what isn't, is IMHO beneath contempt.

    @Shroud: Unfortunately the Shroud is obtrusive right now (or at least a month ago when I had the chance to play it). But I hope, with XP points already gone and all that, that it can be disabled or will be left out altogether.

  22. #22
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2003
    Location: On my bicycle \o/
    Oh noes - swooping. The effrontery!!!

    I think it must have been a pretty unsatisfying job. Aside from the game getting a shed-load of flak all the time, it never seemed like Adam was being allowed enough slack to do the job he being was asked to do. So he'd come and post here, but wasn't permitted to say anything that hadn't already been said. Kinda pointless and frustrating for all I'm sure.

  23. #23
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2009
    Location: The Spiraling Sea
    I have to admit, it's hard to peddle a game to a community that knows a forgery when they see one...b1skit was caught between a rock and a hard place, thanks to EM's misguided choices...and it isn't any wonder, as to why he could not bear his unfortunate position...no doubt, nearly driven insane by what he had to say, day after day.

  24. #24
    Member
    Registered: May 2003
    Location: in the wabe
    Yes, he had a hard job but that doesn't excuse how awful he was at it. Yes we are a pain in the ass community to engage with, but that doesn't excuse rudeness, dismissal and pointless rubbish threads being posted instead of addressing the concerns and questions of your community. He very clearly positioned himself above the community instead of within it and personally I'm glad he's gone.

  25. #25
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2009
    Location: The Spiraling Sea
    Me too, Shayde.

    Those "pointless rubbish threads" you speak of, were his attempt to evade the unwanted pertinent inquiries...filling up space with fluff and nonsense, in the foolish hope of changing the community's disposition...

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