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Thread: Fallout 4?

  1. #276
    Judith
    Guest
    Well, you need around 50 hours to check the main quest and explore a bit, to get a more or less solid overview of the game. The sense of novelty has to wear off, as well as the hope that you'll find something meaningful to do in F4's shallow world. I know I had to waste 70 hours to give up, so I'm not blaming anyone for playing more or less than that.

    I guess this kind of discussion is about the problem of not seeing forest for the trees. I'd say that Bethesda is past the point, where this was more ambiguous (Skyrim?). It's a pretty crappy forest now.
    Last edited by Judith; 8th Jan 2016 at 05:57. Reason: repetitions

  2. #277
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2002
    Location: London / London / London
    YO, I'm currently looking for some motivation to finish this thing. Are there any quests that aren't just go down the shops and murder everyone? I just did the one where you rescue some thespian dude stuck up the top of a shopping centre. Turns out he's been trying to teach the supermutants shakespeare. You would think, wouldn't you, that you could use that to fire off some imaginative setpieces, right? Maybe the mutants get really into it, and one of them decides he's Macbeth or Richard III or something, or maybe they decide they want to be cultured themselves and you get up there and find they've built a stage and are arguing about who has to wear the dress this time. At the very least they could quote some lines at you. But no, you get up there, and guess who's there? At the end of the shakespeare-themed sidequest? A big mutant man called fist who shouts at you and shoots you with a minigun. This game is shit. Is there any reason to carry on? Does it get better?

  3. #278
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: not here
    You're missing the point, Viv. That quest is obviously meant to illustrate the greatest of the bard's quotes from Macbeth through subtext: all around, no one but poor players, fretting and strutting. All that sound, and all that fury, and in the end, after you're done killing the green-skinned mutated bastard and move on? It signifies absolutely nothing.

    That is a bravura fucking performance wrapped up in a quest. Be ashamed that this has eluded you. Ashamed.

  4. #279
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2002
    Location: London / London / London
    Haha, nice. But seriously fuck this game, its awful bullshit. Bethedsa have fallen off their chair.

  5. #280
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: not here
    To be fair, they only ever had half their ass on it.

  6. #281
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    Wait until you realise that finishing the game means murdering 1-3 entire factions, (depending on who you side with) families and children and all... For no particular reason other than "but thou must" because there's nothing else to do.
    Last edited by Nameless Voice; 29th Jan 2016 at 15:08.

  7. #282
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2007
    Location: free koki
    I actually kind of appreciated that bit about the main plotline, I thought it was a solid step forward from Bethesda's previous titles. You're given the opportunity to do stuff for or with some of these characters, and then you're put in a position of choosing who to come at odds with. Even if they're not exactly deep, you can form some impression on these characters and I even struggled a little bit with my final pick. I liked the BoS better, but I figured that it made more sense, character-wise, to go with the Institute. I remember thinking "oh, bummer" when I shot Scribe Haylen, as opposed to when I finally got Glory to shut the fuck up.

  8. #283
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    In a way, but I felt there was no real motivation for doing it. You had to side with one of the factions, they all hated each other, but most weren't really doing anything noteworthy. Even the irredeemably evil faction aren't really doing much of anything. They're engaged in low-level and long-term evilness throughout the Commonwealth, but there's no particular big thing that they're doing that you feel urgently compelled to stop. You fight them because there's nothing else left to do in the game.

    It also rather annoyingly made all of the factions completely set in their ways and didn't give even the slightest chance of negotiating or saying "no."
    You literally get a quest from the BoS where they tell you to wipe out the Railroad, without warning, and you are suddenly hostile with the entire faction. You can't argue against it, you can't reject the orders, all you can do is not talk to the guy who gives it. And the BoS have no particularly good reason for being hostile to them, either. "This is a group we think might cause trouble at some point, murder them all please."

  9. #284
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: The Plateaux Of Mirror
    I'm pretty sure their entire MO is at odds with the BoS wanting to eliminate mutants and androids.

  10. #285
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2007
    Location: free koki
    I thought the hostility between the factions made sense, at least the Brotherhood, Institute and Railroad have completely conflicting goals and the context lends enough urgency to them wanting to murder one another. The Minutemen are a little more to the side and this is reflected in their progression, but they're also the dullest faction available. You could argue that maybe, in the end, the protagonist wouldn't want to join any of these guys but then the only thing that would make sense would be to walk away. Which, technically, you are free to do. I mean, you do achieve what you set out to do, finding Shaun, prior to the "ending" itself. If you don't approve of what he's involved in at the Institute, nor do you buy into the ideologies of the Brotherhood or Railroad, nor even want to help the Minutemen consolidate (who would, reasonably, see "synth replacements" as a threat), then you genuinely don't have a horse in that race anymore. I suppose the only thing Bethesda could've done further is offer you an explicit option to everyone down and have the conflict play out in your absence, a sort of "canon ending" but that might present some issues from a gameplay perspective.

    As for the lack of warning with that BoS quest, that looks like a designer's oversight. I went through the same thing but later was clearly warned with a pop-up before I chose the Institute over the Brotherhood, a quest which also offered me one last opportunity to switch sides. By the by, you're allowed to carry on with various factions in the third act, and they have different "points of no return" in relation to one another, I thought it was very nicely handled, in fact.

  11. #286
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: The Plateaux Of Mirror
    I'm at that I/B point of no return in my "explore everything" replay, and when I enter the teleporter room it clearly tells me that I'm ending my relationship with the BoS if I continue.

    One thing I will say is that all of the later quests really feel like they're hanging together by a string, such as the Battle for BH and it really doesn't seem like Bethsoft put any effort at all into that part of the game or into accomodating a "fuck 'em all" playstyle. FO4 is a fun game, they've improved the shooting, the locations are generally fun to explore, and the character design is an improvement over 3 even if the companion implementation in particular is horrible. But my god the roleplaying aspects are just nonexistent. I don't know how they thought they could get away with some of the mechanical and narrative design stuff after seeing what Obsidian did with New Vegas. A much smaller studio managed to create a Third Act (as well as the rest of the game, really) that takes every variable imaginable into account when crafting the faction ending scenarios. Kill everybody, get certain groups to work together, piss off other groups, convince various final bosses to abandon the area, etc. And they managed to do the same thing in the DLC. I don't remember a point in NV where I was seriously questioning a character's motivations or reactions to how I treated them or something I said. Or not really understanding what I was supposed to be doing. There were clear choices and consequences everywhere, and they actually mattered.

    So yeah, after about 2 playthroughs my review of FO4 would be: Dense world that is fun to explore, much improved gunplay and enemy AI, and everything else is kinda garbage. It's basically RAGE but generally better.
    Last edited by Jason Moyer; 27th Jan 2016 at 22:38.

  12. #287
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2007
    Location: free koki
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Moyer View Post
    A much smaller studio managed to create a Third Act (as well as the rest of the game, really) that takes every variable imaginable into account when crafting the faction ending scenarios.
    Not to argue the overall point about roleplaying being better in New Vegas, it was better than in anything I've played from Bethesda (faint praise as that might be). But - and correct me if I'm wrong, 'cause I never took the game to completion, only to the point where I had to actually pick a faction - the plot structure in NV was fairly simple: find Chandler, find magical macguffin, choose who gets the macguffin to secure your main ending. Don't even think that warranted spoiler tags. In this one respect, with regard to branching of the finale, I thought Fallout 4 did a better job than NV: you knock factions out of the game at different stages, can proceed in parallel with some and even change your mind partway.

  13. #288
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    You can do most of that in New Vegas too, because certain quests make you do things that alienate the other factions (mostly killing Legion or NCR guys), and you can knock out one other faction (House) early.
    Also, two factions don't even care about the MacGuffin. You can side with them without it.
    It's a bit less impactful because the two main factions both give you one "forgive all crimes" point during the main quest, which you can abuse.

  14. #289
    Btw, is this a spoiler free thread? Because, I haven't finished the game yet, and had no idea I would be "murdering 1-3 entire factions, families and children and all" at the end.

    But I guess now I know.

  15. #290
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    Hmm, yeah, probably should have spoiler-tagged that, though it was hyperbolic.

  16. #291
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: The Plateaux Of Mirror
    Quote Originally Posted by Ostriig View Post
    only to the point where I had to actually pick a faction
    You don't have to work with any factions, and the process of aligning with/pissing off the main and side players starts in Act I. Although as NV pointed out you do get a "get out of jail free" card for 2 of the factions during the second act.

    - the plot structure in NV was fairly simple: find Chandler, find magical macguffin, choose who gets the macguffin to secure your main ending. Don't even think that warranted spoiler tags.
    Yeah, it really doesn't. So anyway I guess you could broadly generalize it, but the main story arc of NV is more like:

    Choose one of the many ways of finding and dealing with Chandler. Optionally figure out who the hell you are, what your backstory is, and why you're involved in any of this shit (which is explored further in the DLC).
    Find the magical macguffin, or don't, because while it might be helpful it's not a requirement.
    Ally with/piss off/meet and ignore all of the minor factions depending on who you feel like working with and your character's abilities and/or the requirements of the major faction you're working with if you choose one. Unless you're really daft you'll probably uncover/unravel a web of relationships and intrigue involving all of the major/minor factions and the recruitable companions at this point since all of them have complex relationships with each other and the Mojave in some way.
    Pick a major side to ally with, or don't ally with any of them.
    Choose who gets to determine the future of New Vegas or say fuck it and do it yourself.

    And in the process of that adventure, feel free to kill every single living thing in the game except for a couple robots who have a plot-related reason for being unkillable.

  17. #292
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2007
    Location: free koki
    I see, fair enough guys, guess my memory of NV is a lot more streamlined than does it justice. I did wanna give it another go at some point prior to Fo4 coming out, but just lacked the resolve at the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nameless Voice View Post
    Hmm, yeah, probably should have spoiler-tagged that, though it was hyperbolic.
    Well... technically speaking, you were quite accurate. The Institute has families and the Brotherhood trains scouts. Hell, the Prydwen even has a cat on board. So odds are you will be doing some mass murder of non-combatants. Which is cool and all, drives that whole "war never changes" point home a little bit more.

  18. #293
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    Yeah, no one mentions it at all, they just seem to conveniently forget and then think it's okay.

    At least when you side with the Minutemen, you can sound the Institute's evacuation order and give the children a chance to escape. In theory. But it doesn't seem like there's enough time for that to happen... unless you just wander off and avoid triggering the bombs for a couple of hours/days.

  19. #294
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    oh, knew I wanted to post something non-Dark related here on TTLG - so, played FO4 up to level 30, and if you didn't start to play yet, I would really, really recommend waiting for the next big update and the official editor, which will allow modders to patch all the stupid and annoying out without risking corruption.

  20. #295
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Third grave from left.
    I have modded F4 a lot already ... but i have to admit that i postponed play for the same reason for the time being (lev 50+ legendary character - ignored nearly all of the main quests so far). It is just way too broken in way too many areas. While the dozen or so fix-mods i use (don't have anything else) help considerably - official editor is needed to fix the rest of the game.

  21. #296
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2015
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Moyer
    So anyway I guess you could broadly generalize it, but the main story arc of NV is more like:

    Choose one of the many ways of finding and dealing with Chandler. Optionally figure out who the hell you are, what your backstory is, and why you're involved in any of this shit (which is explored further in the DLC).
    Find the magical macguffin, or don't, because while it might be helpful it's not a requirement.
    Ally with/piss off/meet and ignore all of the minor factions depending on who you feel like working with and your character's abilities and/or the requirements of the major faction you're working with if you choose one. Unless you're really daft you'll probably uncover/unravel a web of relationships and intrigue involving all of the major/minor factions and the recruitable companions at this point since all of them have complex relationships with each other and the Mojave in some way.
    Pick a major side to ally with, or don't ally with any of them.
    Choose who gets to determine the future of New Vegas or say fuck it and do it yourself.

    And in the process of that adventure, feel free to kill every single living thing in the game except for a couple robots who have a plot-related reason for being unkillable.
    Well put. New Vegas is a diamond in the rough.

    I haven't played FO4 yet, undecided if I will. In my observations it is yet another business-bound cowardly compromise on Bethesda's behalf, a level above Skyrim even.



    Fingers crossed for Obsidian to save the day again, but this time they will have to work twice as hard to bring it up to fluff, only with half the motivation since Bethesda/Zenimax screwed them last time.

  22. #297
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    You probably wouldn't like it.

    Your image is obviously hyperbole, but the sad thing is that it's not by very much. There are some quests with decisions, but yes, most of them are just killing a ruin full of enemies.


    Fallout 4's main strength is that its world is large, detailed, and interesting to explore.
    If you are okay to play a post-apocalyptic ruin exploration game with combat, while willing to hold your willing suspension of disbelief over the fact that it doesn't look like it was destroyed over 200 years ago, then go for it.
    If you are looking for a real Fallout role-playing game, or want great writing, player choice, decision making, or any of that fancy stuff, then maybe you should look elsewhere.

    Your last comment isn't fair, though. Fallout 4 introduces a bunch of good new systems and mechanics, they just aren't used or implemented very well. If someone like Obsidian came along, they could make use of those new systems properly - for example, using all the complex companion interaction systems to make actually believable companions with interesting personalities and agendas. There are bits of framework there, they just aren't used well in Fallout 4 itself.


    And if nothing else, I have to give it points for allowing you to just turn around and walk away from annoying people who try to initiate stupid quest-related conversations with you.

  23. #298
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: The Plateaux Of Mirror
    Apparently there's going to be more DLC than Bethesda had initially anticipated, so the season pass is going to increase from $30 to $50 on March 1st. Just a heads up if anyone was sitting on it.

    Also, they've announced the first 3 packs that will be coming out in March, April, and May. https://www.facebook.com/BethesdaGam...12176572159661

  24. #299
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    I'm thinking I'll wait until all the DLC and/or the GotY version are released, at which point it might be worth another playthrough (hopefully with good mods to improve its weaker areas.)

    (Why has "GotY" come to mean "best version of the game with all the addons", anyway?)

  25. #300
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Third grave from left.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Moyer View Post
    Also, they've announced the first 3 packs that will be coming out in March, April, and May. https://www.facebook.com/BethesdaGam...12176572159661
    The link is dead. Was there any information about the content of thous updates?

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