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Thread: Fallout 4?

  1. #176
    Level 10,000 achieved
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Finland
    These gifs suddenly made me very interested in the building crafting mode, which I'd previously avoided.

    Also that Assassin's-Creed-dive-into-haystrack recreation is great.

    Oh also, yesterday I discovered - accidentally - that the power armor can be used as a diving suit.

  2. #177
    Registered: Jul 2007
    Location: free koki
    Free tip number one, disable autosave on anything. Fo4 doesn't have a couple of autosave slots that it cycles through, it makes a new save each time, so unless you want your savegames folder to balloon up just come to terms with using Quicksave.

    Free tip number two, if the PipBoy interface seems to small, right-click. It will zoom it in and it will stay that way. Doesn't do anything for screen estate, but there you are.

    Ok, some more impressions, long form:

    - Gunplay and movement are much more solid than before. Movement does suffer somewhat in third person, while your weapon's put away, but overall it's pretty good and a definite step up from Fo3. Also, you can finally jump onto stuff! At long last, Beth have fixed a bug that's been hounding their games since Oblivion - it used to be that if you were colliding with an object you couldn't jump onto it, just up, and you'd have to step back and then jump on. No more, all good. Also, you can jump from sprinting, which was woefully missing in Skyrim.

    - Combat balance, however, suffers. Twenty hours in and so many enemies still feel like they take a million bullets to the noggin before they have the good sense to expire. It's very unsatisfying in this respect, I wanted to play on Hard, so that it'd put more pressure on using my resources, but every time I try I end up dropping back down to Normal as I just can't be arsed spending a half hour on each dull raider encounter.

    Also, grenades. Jesus, these guys have surgical precision in lobbing the little buggers. This one time I tried to take a Supermutant patrol, five of 'em and at least two were packing Molotovs and Frag Grenades. I actually enjoy games that throw encounters at you that you may have to flee from, which, after several attempts I did end up doing, it taps into my STALKER nostalgia, but Phatose is right... stupidly high accuracy.

    Combat AI is generally better all across the board. Raiders are using cover nicely.

    - Character models may be the best Beth have put up so far, but they're still more awkward and plasticky than the competition. Environmental assets are generally okay, but they won't knock your socks off.

    - But! The art direction is great, and makes up for the asset quality well, in my opinion. The wasteland sinks into various hues and weather conditions, and outfits and character designs run the range from mundane to outlandish. Power Armour is pretty sweet. And when you clamber up to an observation point, Bethesda's true to form with impressive vistas.

    I do miss gun holsters, though.

    - "Shaun, who?" I like the idea of having a voiced protagonist, but they haven't quite pulled it off right. Games like these will always have a hint of playing loose with the plot - you have a great, urgent thing to attend to, but you can break off and do other things. Which I'm completely in favour of, because I like for games like these to have a strong plot thread that I can come back to when the sense of purpose erodes, but I also want to be free to explore and do unrelated stuff.

    The catch is that, if you're gonna have the PC voiced in this context, you need to be careful how you direct that acting. JC Denton, Adam Jensen, Geralt of Rivia... they work well because they're written as stoic types, even spoken and a tad more emotionally reserved. It's easy for the player to imagine the character's thoughts behind restrained and distrusting facade. Gets a little trickier with less defined characters, like in Dragon Age: Inquisition, but the devs can provide for a wider array of playable personalities as long as the scope of the plot is large enough to accommodate it.

    But this doesn't work for the plot of Fallout 4, at least not in the beginning. I'm going to spoil the first fifteen minutes of the game here, if that's a problem just skip to the next paragraph, but... your character's just emerged into a completely alien world of devastation and savagery, witnessed the death of their spouse and the kidnapping of their only child and when the people they just saved push their luck and ask to go also help some other people the protagonist doesn't know over in Bumsville Nowhere, their answer is... a very warm and perky "I'd be glad to help?"

    This item's gotten a bit long and rambly, but yeah, point is that some of the line performances feel out of touch with the context they're delivered in within the stage of the game. I'd get it if it were later on, but we get quite a bit of this in threads at the onset of the game, where the protagonist comes across as inconsistently comfortable with their situation and outright casual about their missing spawn.

    - Ghouls are creepy. Really creepy. Job well done.

    - I've only used Dogmeat as a companion so far, and I like what the crew have done with him. I understand and agree with hardcore players that wanted there to be an option to make him mortal, but it's an option I'd have never used, getting in the line of fire is a common occurrence. Elizabeth never did that. But then again, Elizabeth didn't rush enemies to chomp onto their ankles and drag them to the ground. Overall, it works pretty well, Dogmeat can hold off some aggro and effectively pin down one enemy at a time while you take potshots from farther away. There's no way to fine tune his general behaviour, but I haven't missed it so far, he seems to be fine with keeping up and will automatically sneak with you. And he finds stuff for you. And he's never seen a mudcrab.

    My main gripe with the dog is that he can get in the way in tight spaces. A behaviour to make him scamper out of the way when you collide with him, or reducing his collision bounds to the player, or both, might've helped.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nameless Voice View Post
    The very few who actually had conversation options just have really vague ones where I have no idea what the options actually mean, and very few of those at that.
    In a way, this is a return to the "glorious" days of Oblivion... I'm miffed that like Mass Effect, Dragon Age, and now Fallout 4, can't seem to learn from Deus Ex 3, which displayed the full line of dialogue when you hovered over one of the shortened options on the dialogue UI. Just make it double tap on consoles. But everyone seems to be more concerned with getting text off the screen these days.

    Hey, at least it doesn't do like DA:I did, where selecting "I don't know what to say..." turns into "Well, shit."

    Having no skills at all is really weird. I don't understand this trend by Bethesda to take the RPG elements out of their games.
    I'm actually kind of fine with it. It's a departure from the classical D&D split of attributes, passive skills and active feats, but other games have done it well too. Deus Ex did away with attributes, kept just the latter two, and recently The Witcher 3 combined those into a single table with a single resource pool. Which Fallout 4 is also doing with its skills and feats perks, while keeping the SPECIAL attributes. Less granularity, but often that was redundant in Fallout 3, see Lockpick 49.

    - Yeah, I would agree that the game is a bit lighter on the RPG choices and stuff. So far. There's a lot more going on once you get to Diamond City, but still feels superficial and railroady. Yes / No / [Persuade] More money / Lolwut? Last night I actually had a "but thou must" moment with Piper, where I literally tried each of the other three options on screen until I had no other recourse than to take the "correct" choice. Not looking good.

    - Getting more used to the UI doesn't make it any less atrocious. And I'm constantly bumping into new grievances, large and small. Constant inventory micromanagement doesn't make it any better. At least gotta give Beth props for making all the buttons mouse-clickable on PC. I'm looking at you, Gwent match summary "Close" button.

    - Oh, and it doesn't rain beneath roofs anymore. I checked.

    All in all, I'm enjoying Fallout 3++ this far in, in spite of its issues.

    You know, I just checked the word count, I did not intend to write this much...
    Last edited by Ostriig; 17th Nov 2015 at 05:32.

  3. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by Ostriig View Post
    Free tip number one, disable autosave on anything. Fo4 doesn't have a couple of autosave slots that it cycles through, it makes a new save each time, so unless you want your savegames folder to balloon up just come to terms with using Quicksave.
    I have all of the autosave options enabled, and after 30+ hours I have 3 autosave files. Also, between those 3 autosave files, my quicksave file, and Save1 which the game automatically made when leaving the vault, my save folder takes up all of 33mb.

  4. #179
    Registered: Oct 2000
    Location: Athens of the North
    Finally started playing this following an extremely protracted install time and spent about 6-7 hours on it so far. Only tinkered with the building / crafting aspect of it but once I've located reliable supplies for certain material I can see it taking up a lot of time. The user interface is dreadful as has been mentioned multiple times in this thread but I'm starting to get used to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Moyer View Post
    It seems like most of their efforts went into making the world more enjoyable to explore, which probably makes sense given that's always been the strongest point of their games.
    Absolutely my feelings too. Fallout 3 was the same in this regard and although I've only done limited exploration I get the same vibe. It's still frustrating to come across a "you can't go this way" popup at the edge of the map but that's my only real complaint.

  5. #180
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    Okay, I've played it a bit more now and I feel I should write a bit more.

    Previously I focused only on the negatives, but it does have some nice things too.

    The graphics aren't amazing I suppose, but they still look good because of the artistic vision. Characters look much better, and far more realistic with the cinematic talking cameras rather than staring straight into the player's face.
    (As a random aside, when I first played Skyrim, the first thing I saw was a guy in bare feet sitting across from me in the intro, and I couldn't get over how his feet were basically a wedge with toes painted on. Not that you'd normally look at peoples' feet that much, but they were the very first thing visible when the game started, so it jarred. Now, in Fallout 4, in 2015 - yes, people still don't have actual modelled toes.)

    The artistic design of the world is good. They have managed to do a really good "ruined places after the bombs fell" aesthetic here.
    It also has bits of nice atmosphere. This is the one thing that Fallout 3 really did well, and they've improved on it - but also still have the same bits of Bethesda silliness that partly ruins the atmosphere and setting.
    I came across a ruined supermarket and went inside. It really felt like an abandoned and ruined supermarket, where most of the items on the shelves had already been looted. Then I came across a display case and a shopping trolley full of melons. In a building that has been abandoned for 200 years. Bethesda games are always full of small jarring things like this that break the willing suspension of disbelief by being so outlandishly wrong.

    It doesn't help that said supermarket was also filled to the brim with feral ghouls, who are now even more like zombies and even less like something that belongs in the Fallout series. They literally crawl out of vents, in through windows, lie on the floor pretending to be dead and then get up, and even keep coming after you blow their limbs off and try to bite you while blood pours out of their arm sockets. Behaviours that really don't fit with living creatures, no matter how much their brains have decayed.

    Despite the truly awful PC interface, it does have some highlights like being able to search containers without opening them - a nice feature in comparison to previous games, though certainly not such a huge feature that it really means much for the game as a whole - not matter how much of a container-looting simulator recent Fallout game are.

    I really like the dog. His actual pathfinding may be poor (he tends to get stuck on things), but he acts realistically. Wandering around your area, looking at things, trying to predict where you are going to go and taking a few steps in that direction, and so on. I wouldn't be surprised if they spent a considerable amount of their AI design time coding that dog's behaviours.
    I hate that they called him Dogmeat, though. It just shows a fanboyish lack of originality, where they somehow seem to think they are clever by "referencing" something from the original game.

    Combat and difficulty are strange and frustrating. The normal gunplay is fine, but with only a few levels under my belt, and having not travelled that far from the starting settlement, I'm already running into raiders in power armour (which doesn't even make sense - how did they get it, who trained them to use it?) shooting Fat Mans (Fat Men?). Meanwhile, I don't want to use my own power armour because I haven't found any spare cores for it yet. The enemies with rocket weapons and especially grenades have insane accuracy, basically capable of one-shot-gibbing you from a huge range, prompting lots of reloading.
    Meanwhile, I'm afraid to even equip grenades myself since it's so easy to accidentally drop one when trying to gun-bash.

    The gun modification system is very nice, I like that you can basically swap out each part of a gun and replace it with a different part.
    It has a few odd quirks (like how you can't actually take a part out of a gun without putting a replacement in, and scrapping the whole gun doesn't give you any of the mod parts (e.g. springs, glass) back.

    NPCs' writing, and especially their motivations, are still awful. No getting around that. People see you and randomly trust you on sight; a bunch of hounded refugees tell you how to get power armour and a minigun on sight with no actual reason to trust you (or to believe you can even use it), a guy randomly makes you the leader of his faction for no reason, etc.. But I went into the game expecting it to be very weak in this area, so it's not like I'm surprised.
    Last edited by Nameless Voice; 16th Nov 2015 at 21:54.

  6. #181
    Registered: Mar 2004
    Grenades wouldn't be quite so bad if they didn't cook them off so well. Wouldn't help with molotov tosses - but those are reasonably supposed to be explosions on impact. Your average grenade chucking master from CoD isn't half as skilled at cooking off grenades as Fallout's raiders. They aren't actually cooking them off though, as you can tell when one chucks a grenade, perfectly timed to explode before you can really move, immediately after sighting you.

    Bethesda always plays fast and loose with Fallout lore to get something they consider iconic in their game - even if it makes no sense. They do that so often I just ignore it. Hell of a long list. Most ghouls are actually zombies, despite them being portrayed as basically deformed humans in the originals. And despite Ghouls not just being radiation exposure - "We are the first, and last, generation of ghouls". Supermutants are everywhere - despite Supermutants being created on the other side of the US, over a century ago, by a deformed man who is now dead, and despite Supermutants being sterile. Jet - oh lord, in F3 you could find jet in sealed pre-war vaults, despite being invented on the other coast well after the bombs fell and after civilization was rebuilt for 100 years. They use caps as currency - despite that being an odd choice made in California after the bombs fell, and despite NCR and the rest abandoning caps and making new currency after they started rebuilding. Oh, and the Enclave being a giant faction that spans the US. Nevermind what the word Enclave means and how that made perfect sense when the Enclave was a literal enclave on an oil rig offshore of San Francisco.

    Oh, and rad scorpions. Fucking Bethesda, you live in Maryland, you know damn well there are no fucking scorpions here in the northeast to mutate into rad scorpions. But radscorps are iconic, so here they are anyway.

    I'm still playing, even though I'm far less then impressed. Just isn't much else on the gaming front to keep me occupied right now, so I might as well try to get my $50 worth.

    I've now met some NPC's that have some personality. Turns out I had simply been following the minutemen questline by accident. Despite the guy who gives you the minigun quest you're railroaded into giving you another quest right after, that's not the main quest. The crazy lady he's with gives you the next step. Despite the minutemen quest being closer and easier and from the guy who the game made you meet, and despite the long distance to the next step in the main quest, and the horribly strong enemies on the journey. But at least there is some personality once you reach Diamond City.

    Oh, and there are romance options now. Which have some very bizarre "courting". Apparently, Bethesda programmers think the way to get into a woman's pants is to lockpick in front of her. Given the other strange things they do in this game, I'm not surprised by that.

    Why the hell can't I get any critical hits outside of VATS? Is there a good reason for that to be VATS only?

    There are just so many strange, nonsensical decisions made by the designers I wonder what drugs they were on.

  7. #182
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Phatose View Post
    Apparently, Bethesda programmers think the way to get into a woman's pants is to lockpick in front of her.
    Maybe she's stuck in a locked chastity belt.

  8. #183
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    I just realised that your guns still magically reload once you put them away because the game doesn't keep track of their ammunition count in inventory.
    Yeah, I could sort-of understand that in Fallout 3 since it was something of a hack on Oblivion's engine, I could understand it more in Fallout: New Vegas because they were just using the FO3 engine... but 7 years later in much more FPS-focused Fallout, and it's still there?

  9. #184
    PC Gamering Smartey Man
    I <3 consoles and gamepads

    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: New Zealand
    Bethesda get better at world crafting with each game. In Fallout 4 I've seen barely any copypasta environments. Skyrim? Oh here's more Draugr infested Nord ruins and more Dwarven ruins overrun with Falmer and steampunk robots. Fallout 3:- copypasta sewers and subway stations coming out of the ass.

    I'm just stuffing around with side-quests and exploring. I think I stumbled upon a main quest, skipping a few links in the chain. I met the detective Valentine voiced by Garrett.

  10. #185
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: not here
    Quote Originally Posted by Nameless Voice View Post
    I just realised that your guns still magically reload once you put them away because the game doesn't keep track of their ammunition count in inventory.
    Yeah, I could sort-of understand that in Fallout 3 since it was something of a hack on Oblivion's engine, I could understand it more in Fallout: New Vegas because they were just using the FO3 engine... but 7 years later in much more FPS-focused Fallout, and it's still there?
    Same engine! \o/

    Someday, perhaps, they'll stop using Gamebryo. Then we can focus on other things to complain about instead.

  11. #186
    Level 10,000 achieved
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Finland
    Keeping track of ammo count can't be that hard to do, no matter what engine they're using. Surely the guns being reloaded when you switch to them is just a gameplay decision. You loose a bit of time switching guns in the middle of a firefight anyway, so having to reload as well wouldn't be much fun.

  12. #187
    Running with Codsworth and Valentine is funny, it's like having two personal Garretts around. Actually Codsworth gives a few winks to Garrett here and there. When I was looting the corpse, he said, "I guess he won't need that anymore". Making fun of Thief 4 was even better: when I wanted to trade stuff, he replied: "What's mine is yours" .

  13. #188
    Registered: Jul 2007
    Location: free koki
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Moyer View Post
    I have all of the autosave options enabled, and after 30+ hours I have 3 autosave files. Also, between those 3 autosave files, my quicksave file, and Save1 which the game automatically made when leaving the vault, my save folder takes up all of 33mb.
    Huh. I must've messed that one up, then. I'll have another look at it, cheers.

  14. #189
    Could be a bug, but as I haven't encountered it I didn't look into it much.

  15. #190
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: The Akkala Highlands
    I'll say this game has grown on me quite a bit. I'm enjoying the exploration portion, and the gameworld feels really big so far. Almost overwhelmingly so.

    One thing I've enjoyed doing is building my character to a specific type - I know this is a large part of most Fallout games, but tbh I've never really put a lot of effort into it, usually going for an all around balanced character most of the time. I'm building kind of a Sneak/Thief type (shocking, I know), and I'm scrutinizing my perks very carefully, and trying to be aware of when (at what level) I can boost another area I'm interested in. So far I've focused on Sneak, Lockpicking, Hacking, Toughness, Lone Wanderer (I hate companions), and at some point will also build up Ninja, Rifleman, and Sniper. I also know I have to get Gun Nut up to level 2/3 to get access to silencers.

    I still haven't noticed any really nasty bugs, but I will say the AI is just goofy sometimes. There have been instances where an enemy will just run away from me into the distance and never return, and AI that are far above me (like on an overpass) will just jump off (to their death) trying to get to me. At least it's good for comedy value.

  16. #191
    Level 10,000 achieved
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Finland
    Biggest bug I've ran into was when I started shooting at an enemy in VATS the game teleported my character backwards a good 15 meters. Twice that happened, and the second time it stranded me on the underside of a bridge, when I was in my power armor. When I stepped off the edge I sank like a stone of course, but luckily it turns out the power armor works fine as a diving suit, so crisis avoided.

    Quote Originally Posted by Judith View Post
    Making fun of Thief 4 was even better: when I wanted to trade stuff, he replied: "What's mine is yours" .
    Hah, that's great.

  17. #192
    Level 10,000 achieved
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Finland
    People do some amazing things with the character creator:

  18. #193
    Registered: Jul 2007
    Location: free koki
    Heads up, Vault Bros, some guys have put out a mod that changes the dialogue UI to display full responses and use the number keys as shortcuts. Haven't had a chance to try it, though I imagine it involves switching the game to use some development version of the dialogue interface that's still in the release package. Sounds promising.

  19. #194
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    That works great. It doesn't always show the complete full line - sometimes a few extra unimportant words are left out - but it allows you to actually know what each option will have your character say!
    Note that you have to poke around in Fallout4.ini to get it to work, as described in the instructions.

    Speaking of, here's another one. Pop this into the bottom of Fallout4.ini to get the 3rd person camera centred, in case you hate the default nausea-camera:

    Once again, modders need to fix the most basic things about Bethesda's games...
    Both of these should at least have been options from the start.

  20. #195
    Registered: Aug 2004
    I think it's weird that implementations of "word or phrase to represent longer sentence" so frequently botch it fundamentally by having the longer sentence be significantly different from it's representation. Is that really that hard?

  21. #196
    Level 10,000 achieved
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Finland
    I don't know man, I'm not having any troubles with the standard dialogue system. They responses are generally mapped to the same buttons anyway. X is agree, O is disagree, Triangle is "elaborate, please", and square is hostile, sarcastic, or maybe.

  22. #197
    Registered: Jul 2007
    Location: free koki
    Yo, how's everyone's framerate holding up? I'm running Ultra on a 970 and usually I'm sitting comfortably close to the 60fps cap, but when I head into a wooded area I tank at low thirties, dropping like hell. If I look down a scope it genuinley becomes unplayable at below twenty. I suspect all that vegetation anti-aliasing is the culprit.

    I know that there's been discussion on how to improve performance - change the config files to drop the in-built Vsync, then force it on along with a 60 cap through the graphics drivers to prevent some mechanics going haywire, but I've been holding out so far in the hopes of a forthcoming patch. Still, Bethesda are taking their time and I might just go fiddling with the configs. Just curious how everyone else is doing.

  23. #198
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    I'm finding it completely smooth on my old 7950, at maximum settings.
    The only time I've seen lag is, yes, while looking through a scope near trees, when it becomes unplayable. Seems like a bug to me, since looking at the trees up close doesn't make it lag.

    Edit: 1920x1200.
    I haven't checked the actual frame rate, just haven't noticed any lag outside of scopes.
    Last edited by Nameless Voice; 19th Nov 2015 at 08:58.

  24. #199
    Old GF 650 Ti Boost here, it's mostly over 30 FPS in the outside areas with Ultra settings, but I'm playing on my old 32" 720p TV. I get slowdowns in many interiors though. I might need to install newer drivers, I haven't checked them for 2 years or so (there was no need, really).

  25. #200
    Registered: Jul 2007
    Location: free koki
    Yeah, scope around trees completely buggers up, get like a 60-70% FPS loss compared to just running around somewhere in open plains.

    If you guys want to bump general framerates up a bit, I've heard dropping the god rays one level in Advanced should help a bit for little visual difference. As for the Vsync, I'll see if I can get some time tonight or at the weekend to give it a spin and post back.

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