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Thread: Alien: Isolation - The First Alien Film Meets System Shock 2?

  1. #51
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Landahn
    Quote Originally Posted by icemann View Post
    On a side note I to this day prefer Terminator 1 over 2 unlike the majority of people
    I'm sure you'll find a lot of people that prefer 1 to 2, not least for 1 not including squeaky-voiced Edward Furlong.

  2. #52
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2002
    Location: London / London / London
    They taught the murderbot to cry in Terminator 2. I shouldn't have to explain how lame that is.

  3. #53
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    I'll raise my hand to preferring T1 to T2 as well. I love the whole concept generally:

    "Let's program the robot assassin to be intimidating as possible to the humans"
    "Yes, good idea, make it male and with a very imposing physique"
    "Excellent idea, it should also have a thick Austrian accent"
    "Yes, perfe...wait, what?"

  4. #54
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    Quote Originally Posted by DDL View Post
    Yes! God that annoyed me. Possibly it's trying to ram home the idea that he's a shitty nublet commander.


    Also, if puncturing coolant tanks is a problem, I can't see that "setting them on fire" is really that much better, but hey.

    That and the fact that reactors don't go all NUKEASPLODE anyway.
    Yeah, I realise it was a MacGuffin to give the plot some time pressure (and probably as you say to make Gorman look like a plum*), but hey.

    * The sole purpose of which seems to be to show how badass Ripley is and make his latter heroic efforts somehow amount to some kind of micro tale of absolution.

  5. #55
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Landahn
    Quote Originally Posted by Vivian View Post
    They taught the murderbot to cry in Terminator 2. I shouldn't have to explain how lame that is.
    Also to laugh, though. Which is awesome.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  6. #56
    Southquarter.com/fms
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: The Akkala Highlands
    Love the hyperbole. They didn't teach him how to cry - his neural net processor allowed him to understand why humans cry. Is that so lame?

  7. #57
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2002
    Location: London / London / London
    ffs YES! It's a murderbot! Why the hell should it give a shit about crying? Camerons Dawsons Creek side is soooo his worst feature by a desert mile.

  8. #58
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2008
    He should, technically, have already known why humans cry. And how to exploit it ("sniper in Short Timers"-style) to horrific, gut-wrenching effect.
    Unless skynet just figured metal skeletons covered in austrian man-mountain was sufficient (TO HELL WITH YOUU, SUBTLETY).

  9. #59
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2007
    Location: free koki
    They're just two different movies in different genres, roughly sharing a setting. Terminator 1's a gritty sci-fi action flick, 2's a family movie about a boy and his dog. I like the first better, but the second's fun too in the right mindset.

  10. #60
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    Yep, I far prefer T1 to T2 as well. It's just so lean and mean and the Terminator is totally insanely scary.

    To it's credit I think T2 at least managed to up the ante with the liquid Terminator. You needed something that was going to be tougher than the Arnie Terminator and they did a stonking good job. His fast and purposeful walk that you knew would end with a spike in the guts was very effective and unlike the Arnie version shooting him did nothing AT ALL. At least in T1 the Terminator could be damaged by enough force.

    Knowing and understanding why humans cry is a very different thing. They were saying he understood emotions therefore suggesting that he had some emotions. Meh. The whole sentimental side of T2 was a little over done but the Atari laptop thing that John could hack things with was even more annoying.

  11. #61
    Southquarter.com/fms
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: The Akkala Highlands
    I love both movies, but to me T2 is much better. In the first, Linda Hamilton is just a helpless girl, fairly useless, whereas in the 2nd, she's a total badass. And the T1000 is so menacing that it takes both Arnie and the roided up Sarah Connor to take it down. He is much more imposing than the original terminator, and basically has you wondering throughout the movie - how are they going to beat this guy? Sure, Edward Furlong is kind of a pain, but he's a kid after all. And he gives us a few funny moments in between the violence.

    Plus, it takes on much bigger topics and issues, such as fate, consequences, and changing the future. Good stuff there. I know it's fashionable and cooler to like the original Terminator and Alien movies, but I'm personally a bigger fan of their sequels.

  12. #62
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Iacon
    Quote Originally Posted by NuEffect View Post
    Knowing and understanding why humans cry is a very different thing. They were saying he understood emotions therefore suggesting that he had some emotions. Meh.
    Well the exact line is "I know now why you cry." He also says "but it's something I can never do" which I guess you could take as either meaning a T-800 just doesn't come equipped with tear ducts, or that it's not capable of experiencing emotion on that level.

    As an aside (on a tangent on a tangent, haha), interesting how T3, although goofy in its own ways, steps back from the sentimentality of T2. There isn't really the same sort of bond between the boy and his murderbot.
    Last edited by Chimpy Chompy; 9th Jan 2014 at 14:24.

  13. #63
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2002
    Location: London / London / London
    Quote Originally Posted by Brethren View Post
    I know it's fashionable and cooler to like the original Terminator and Alien movies, but I'm personally a bigger fan of their sequels.
    Christ, if we're going to be passive-aggressively assigning each other annoying motives, then I know it's considered ethically-superior to like the sequels, but personally I prefer the originals.

  14. #64
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    In T3, after eagerly awaiting the movie and of discovering how in the hell judgement day still happened and Arnie uttering the line:

    "You only postponed it. Judgment Day is inevitable."

    That movie ceased to exist in my mind. Great action scenes, but just such a terrible movie. The fourth was ok. Just ok.

    To tie this back into Aliens slightly, the true question is: Which movie is worse. Terminator 3 or Alien Resurrection. My votes for Resurrection.

  15. #65
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    Deleted T2 scene: Arnie hugs John Connor before being lowered into the molten metal and exclaims "Why am I programmed to find this arousing!?"

  16. #66
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2007
    Location: Sevastapol Station
    I'm in the extreme minority of the Alien 3 camp. I think Alien was a better movie, but Alien 3 is my favorite, mostly for what it could have been, and for its concept. My favorite thing about it is that it destroyed all of the setup Cameron did. As much as I love Aliens, and everybody does seem to love it, I find its the movie that ruined the franchise. (I've probably said that before on this forum, I know I say it IRL all the time) Nearly every spinoff conforms to the set pieces in that movie, if the time frame lines up. Comics, Vidyagames, comics, authorized novels, comics, etc.

    The biggest gripe I have about the whole franchise is a complete lack of return to the source material and its muse. I don't think I'd be that far off in saying that most alien fans probably want more Giger. He created the monster, its his imagination that feeds ours. Cameron didn't so much as think about him (to be fair Giger said he thought the alien queen was a good design), Giler and Hill snubbed him after confirming an appointment to work on the design for Alien 3. Jeunet was.. well.. lets just not go there.

    Scott had the perfect opportunity to bring Giger back into the fold, do a bit of fan service, and really make the story interesting.

    Instead we get space jockeys that don't just look like people, but.. ARE human? (Seriously? after 30 years of speculation, they're just big people?)

    I don't think Giger is any kind of go-to-end-all of the franchise. But he really hasn't be involved in a single project bearing the name Alien that I know of since the 70s. Lots of wasted potential.

    wow.... [/rant]

  17. #67
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by icemann View Post
    To tie this back into Aliens slightly, the true question is: Which movie is worse. Terminator 3 or Alien Resurrection. My votes for Resurrection.
    I vote T3. Resurrection was campy, stupid, played fast and loose with genetics even by the low standards of the franchise, and had a ridiculous pumpkinhead thing at the end.

    But T3 pulled the whole "Remember 'no fate but what we make', and how it was a big thematic point in T2? LOL, we don't either!", which was far worse then campy stupidity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Volitions Advocate View Post
    I don't think Giger is any kind of go-to-end-all of the franchise. But he really hasn't be involved in a single project bearing the name Alien that I know of since the 70s. Lots of wasted potential. [/rant]
    Think that it's just too overtly sexual for mass marketing? Alien had a vagina-spider that raped your face, and a crawling penis that burst from your chest then grew into a giant dick headed monster. And from what I've seen, that's actually pretty tame as Giger's art goes. Kind of hard to sell as a summer blockbuster.

  18. #68
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2006
    Location: On the tip of your tongue.
    I'm in the Alien 3 camp too (with Alien a close second). I love it for how unerringly bleak it is from start to finish, without a single drop of happiness. But Alien is the better horror film.

    Also T3 is abominable tripe except for the final 2-3 minutes. The downbeat sense of inevitability about the ending was great. Everything preceding it, garbage.

    Alien: Resurrection on the other hand would have been a pretty good dark comedy if it weren't for the brand name. If you swapped the xenos for generic space beasts and it was a standalone entity, it'd have been alright. Joss Whedon, Buffy in space - it should be a good recipe for throwaway fun. But throwaway fun can't go hand in hand with shitting all over the alien franchise.

    So: both terrible; Alien: Resurrection sort of, just about "wins" I reckon.

  19. #69
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    Why did the aliens and facehuggers never get it on?

    To be fair to Alien 3, which I loved, much of it was spoiled by the fact that they went for CGI aliens before the tech was quite ready and as a result, it's a bit like watching a much darker, Britishy take on Pete's Dragon.

    I agree with VA that it'd be nice for someone, anyone to go back to the first film (or even the second film a bit) and make something without some drastic diversion. The addition of the queen was logical (eggs had to be produced somehow), the idea that the aliens imprint from host characteristics is also a good idea. It takes some of the cognitive strain out of wondering why a completely new non-earth organism just happens to be a jointed tetrapod with hands, feet, mouth etc... though the dragonfly nymph facegear is an anatomical non sequiter. It got a bit fucking silly though when you start having aliens with wombs giving birth to something which recognises Ripley as a parent.

    Prometheus had some nice ideas, but the execution was just so poor that I couldn't bring myself to even take any of them in. Even Revenge of the Sith leading into A New Hope felt better.

  20. #70
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2007
    Location: Sevastapol Station
    Well I'm not saying they should use all of his artwork as source material, he can easily come up with new designs, that's what you do as an artist when you're given a commission. Hell *I* can't handle most of his artwork, but not everything he does has dicks and electropneumatic vaginas.

    Space jockey wasn't sexualized at all. And it was a fantastic set piece to the series.

    I always thought that the Alien represents something different in each of the films. In Alien is absolutely is a sexual predator. Stalking you down the dark alley, raping your face and impregnating you whether you want it to or not. I'm sure it's not canon but there's some talk around fan discussion pages that it basically raped Lambert when it killed her based on the overall makeup of the scene and the sounds that Ripley heard. I don't know if I buy it really but I do think there is a highly sexualized sense of terror involved with the creature in the first film.

    In Aliens it was a soldier, obviously. And in Alien 3 it was a demon, or the devil. Ripley represented a chink in the armor for the inmates, who had been living peacefully without temptation for years. The fact that people started dying after she appeared just meant that she was the vessel for this demon that was going to destroy them. The final theatrical version strayed from this a lot but the blueprint was there.

    In anycase. It did work for Species didn't it? Tits and aliens tends to sell to the right market. Not where I'd want to see Alien go, but there you have it.

  21. #71
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    The rationale behind that is that you have to take into account that every shot in a film is purposeful. So why the shot of the alien's "tail" moving between Lambert's legs, prior to the cut away and then sounds of Lambert being brutally killed (everyone else was killed instantly by a puncture wound to the head).

    I'm not saying that definitely means she was raped by the alien, it probably doesn't, but that's the thought process that gets you there. I'd argue that such a thing would detract from the scariness of the alien, since its scare factor comes from its complete lack of emotion. Ash says its perfection is only matched by its hostility, but I guess that just means it kills, not that it enjoys killing, or indeed anything.

  22. #72
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by faetal View Post
    Why did the aliens and facehuggers never get it on?
    Dude, the incest thread is in Comchat, not here.


    As an aside, wasn't part of the reason Giger isn't much involved anymore because of how Fox screwed him on Alien 3? IIRC, he did a bunch of design work for the runner alien, but only got credited for the original alien design, as if he didn't help on this movie at all.

  23. #73
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    I'd argue that with the first design, he more or less made himself obsolete as all of the heavy lifting was in the brilliance of the original concept. After that, production companies can hire any number of fresh talent to build on those designs and all they have to do is devise variations - they'll look amazing (so long as they don't fuck with it too much) because the DNA of the designs is so damned good.

  24. #74
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    I liked Alien 3 too. I don't think it's superior to 2 but I really liked the atmosphere and the new Alien. Plus Charles Dance ftw.

    4 is the worst film ever made though. Seriously. The Host is better.
    Telepathy is not mind reading. It is the direct linking... ...of nervous systems... ...separated by space.

  25. #75
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2007
    Location: Sevastapol Station
    Quote Originally Posted by faetal View Post
    I'd argue that such a thing would detract from the scariness of the alien, since its scare factor comes from its complete lack of emotion. Ash says its perfection is only matched by its hostility, but I guess that just means it kills, not that it enjoys killing, or indeed anything.
    Isn't that the point though? The amazing thing about the alien is that it only represents what we project on it. It does its thing regardless. The cons in Alien 3 thought it was a demon there to punish them for their temptations, (originally supposed to be a bunch of monks in the first draft) but it wasn't, it was just what it was.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phatose View Post
    ... wasn't part of the reason Giger isn't much involved anymore because of how Fox screwed him on Alien 3? IIRC, he did a bunch of design work for the runner alien, but only got credited for the original alien design, as if he didn't help on this movie at all.
    In the extra content from the Alien 3 dvd Giler and Hill (I think it was them) said that they had made an appointment to go to Switzerland to meet him and talk about designs and improvements. He went to work on a bunch of things he thought were cool (or that gave him a chubby or something) and they stood him up in favor of going to another meeting, and never tried to reschedule. So he did do a bit of work that just never got used in the film. Although it did get used in Species later.

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