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Thread: There's a VR HEADSET on my FACE! :D

  1. #1301
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    Glad to hear it's working well, and at a reasonable price too! With respect to the Quest's comfort level, there are addons that make it better, but yeah, it's not a great design in terms of wearability. The Quest 2 is better, but not by much; I'm hoping that the Elite Strap will make a difference. Reviews indicate that it's night and day, so let's see.

    The thing with the Guardian setup is quite annoying and makes little sense to me. I hope they'll bring back the option to just show the floor outline and not the walls, because my play area is fairly small, and even if I don't go walkabout I get the Guardian grid very quickly, which isn't exactly conducive to immersion.

  2. #1302
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    Why has no one told me about this?!


  3. #1303
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2004
    Location: Netherlands
    Oculus Air Link is releasing soon for the Quest 2, negating the need for the Virtual Desktop workaround.

    I'm not getting a Facebook headset again, but I hope the competitors release official wireless solutions soon too.

  4. #1304
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    I expect they will, but I wouldn't be surprised if they look for alternative solutions, where the data doesn't have to go from the PC to the router to the headset and back the same way. I'd expect some kind of USB 3.0 dongle, at least in some cases, to minimise latency.

    In any case, I'm curious to try out Air Link and see how well it works compared to Virtual Desktop.

  5. #1305
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Location: melon labneh
    I absolutely can't wait for a way to make my Index wireless. I'd happily throw half the price of a HMD into that.

  6. #1306
    Member
    Registered: May 2006
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeshibu View Post
    Oculus Air Link is releasing soon for the Quest 2, negating the need for the Virtual Desktop workaround.

    I'm not getting a Facebook headset again, but I hope the competitors release official wireless solutions soon too.
    One of the good things about this is that people that don't want a real FB account can create a fake one and still take advantage of wireless PCVR--before they would have to tie their identity to the service when buying Virtual Desktop (supplying payment info). There's a free wireless VR streaming solution for Quest but I heard it doesn't work as well as VD. Still, I can understand not wanting a FB device.

    The shitty side to all of this is that they blocked the Virtual Desktop developer for many months, gave him just one month to provide the feature to people on the store, and are now presumably providing the same feature (with the benefit that they have access to lower level optimizations).


    Quote Originally Posted by Briareos H View Post
    I absolutely can't wait for a way to make my Index wireless. I'd happily throw half the price of a HMD into that.
    There are many indications that they're working on such a thing (they've stated it a few times, they have patents on it, and there's a steamapp called "WiGig SteamVR Driver" that was revealed and updated in the summer), though they have a much harder problem on their hands as I think the enthusiasts expect a "no compromise" solution (no compression artifacts, no added latency, enough bandwidth for 144hz and USB peripherals). And people will also expect to be able to use such an expensive wireless add-on with future headsets, which means they need to support throughputs high enough for future hardware as well. The only way they can really do that is with 802.11ay, which hasn't been approved yet (though it looks like it's on the verge of being approved). Ideally what they would do is go straight to DP and USB on both ends so it works with any VR headset and doesn't bog down processing on the PC end like all other current wireless VR solutions.
    Last edited by woah; 14th Apr 2021 at 10:45.

  7. #1307
    Quote Originally Posted by woah View Post
    The shitty side to all of this is that they blocked the Virtual Desktop developer for many months, gave him just one month to provide the feature to people on the store, and are now presumably providing the same feature (with the benefit that they have access to lower level optimizations).
    Here's what the Virtual Desktop dev said in response::

    “In 2017, Facebook copied the base functionality of Virtual Desktop on Rift and incorporated it in their platform, essentially making my app obsolete. I’m not surprised to see them do this again on Quest. They copied the fitness tracking app YUR last year and released Oculus Move; essentially killing the company. They also released App Lab as they saw how popular SideQuest was. That’s what they do. If you have a popular app on Quest today, expect Facebook to copy you and leave you in the dust. As for the fate of Virtual Desktop on Quest, we will have to see how Facebook’s solution competes. Judging by the number of issues plaguing Oculus Link today, I’m confident Virtual Desktop will remain a valuable solution for a while. I’ve also got a lot of cool features in the works that I can’t wait to share with the community.”
    I realize that all VR tech is new and to some degree it's fair game for any headset maker to want to stay ahead of the curve and remain on the cutting edge with new innovations and features.

    But it still makes me feel BAD as a Quest2 owner to read the above comments (not that I'm getting rid of the thing anytime soon).

  8. #1308
    Member
    Registered: May 2006
    Quote Originally Posted by Brethren View Post
    I realize that all VR tech is new and to some degree it's fair game for any headset maker to want to stay ahead of the curve and remain on the cutting edge with new innovations and features.

    But it still makes me feel BAD as a Quest2 owner to read the above comments (not that I'm getting rid of the thing anytime soon).
    Here's another example (well, except here they quickly changed their terms and killed it before it could even become a thing): https://uploadvr.com/facebook-policy...lows-cloud-vr/

    I think they would have done the same thing with WiFi based wireless streaming if it hadn't become so widely used

  9. #1309
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2004
    Location: Netherlands
    Resident Evil 4's getting a Quest 2 exclusive VR port.


    On an unrelated note, how easy is it to play Quest 2 games on an Index?

  10. #1310
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    I don’t think you can play Quest 2-native games on a non-Quest headset, if that’s what you mean.

  11. #1311
    Member
    Registered: May 2006
    Just been dabbling with a variety of VR games lately. There are other games I could play but it's too easy to get lost in HLA mods, some of them are better than the vast majority of VR content out there. Valve would be insane not to release a Source 2 SDK (though I hear the engine still needs a lot of work).

    Other than that, Cosmodread is the recent stand out--a roguelike horror game that's easy to jump into--but damn I really wish it had coop https://store.steampowered.com/app/1256060/Cosmodread/ . VR Skater is an interesting one I'm looking forward to with an imminent release https://store.steampowered.com/app/1285920/VR_Skater/

    But by far the most interesting recent development for me has been this: hip direction relative joystick locomotion. Basically, you put a VR tracker on your waist (or on a swiveling stool) and using a special SteamVR driver you can make joystick locomotion relative to your hip/stool orientation instead of your head or hand. And IMO it's just better in every way--head and hand relative now feel clunky in retrospect. It makes multitasking easier (e.g. you can interact with something in your hands--for example reload--while continuously moving around and looking around in arbitrary directions simultaneously), takes your mind off of input conflicts (which also reduces intermittent immersion breaks), makes VR movement more comfortable (fewer unexpected movements), and overall it's just a whole lot more seamless.

    This is something that's been talked about for years so I don't know why it took so long for the first implementation to pop up. Only problem is that the current implementation is kind of high friction due to the pre-game-session setup https://github.com/ju1ce/Simple-Open...hip-locomotion . However, there is a company providing something called "Decamove" that does the same thing and they've stated that they will make their software compatible with other kinds of trackers, e.g. SteamVR trackers (and it will be presumably more seamless). However these camera and IMU based systems suffer from orientational drift over time (I'm using a vive tracker which doesn't have this problem)

  12. #1312
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Pennsylvania
    I don't like head-based or hand-based movement either. In my own project, I have another option that attempts to guess what direction your body is facing and uses that as the forward direction. It's not perfect, but it also doesn't need to be perfect for the arm-swing locomotion I have.

  13. #1313
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    I'm curious about that Decamove device, but I bought a similar one, KAT VR, and that one suffered from shit software. It might be better by now, mind you, but when I tried it out about a year ago it was decidedly worse than just using Natural Locomotion. I wish that NatLoc had been able to include the sensor data from KAT VR, because their software worked so much better.

  14. #1314
    Member
    Registered: May 2006
    Quote Originally Posted by Thirith View Post
    I'm curious about that Decamove device, but I bought a similar one, KAT VR, and that one suffered from shit software. It might be better by now, mind you, but when I tried it out about a year ago it was decidedly worse than just using Natural Locomotion. I wish that NatLoc had been able to include the sensor data from KAT VR, because their software worked so much better.
    I've heard the name before but reading up on Kat Loco it looks like a "walk in place" VR locomotion solution. I'm personally not a fan of that kind of thing (or VR treadmills in general), but does it support hip directed joystick locomotion as well? (ala this SteamVR add-on or Decamove?) If not I would hope they'd implement it as I think such a feature will have much wider appeal.

    I contacted the Nat Loco guys in the past about hip directed joystick locomotion but they also had no interest in such a feature--they only support the waddle in place thing. Super confusing to me as it's such a trivial thing and I suspect they're just leaving money on the table.

  15. #1315
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    The Kat Loco combines the sensor-swinging of Natural Locomotion with hip-directed movement. I never tried it out for longer than an hour or so, because it felt so damn awkward. I have to say that at least with Skyrim walking in place with Natural Locomotion works fantastically well for me.

  16. #1316
    The Oculus showcase should be starting up in about 10 minutes from now. Hoping we get a release date for RE4, plus some other goodies:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3lWfVevaOQ

  17. #1317
    Here's the "Spring Into VR" Humble Bundle, good for another 4 days or so. Games include:

    Detached
    Star Trek Bridge Crew
    Surgeon Simulator
    Swords of Gurrah
    Espire 1
    Job Simulator
    Sairento VR
    Borderlands 2 VR

    https://www.humblebundle.com/games/s...nto-vr-bundle?

  18. #1318
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    Oculus' new Air Link feature for Quest 2 seems to be a very good option for wireless PCVR play - if you can get it to work. Most seem to be able to, though it depends on how fast and stable their wifi network is. For me, it worked flawlessly once, but since it's always crashed after half a minute or so. I've found a handful of other people with the same problem, but no solutions yet. Which isn't a biggie, since wireless play via Virtual Desktop works well - and I've not got all that much time for VR play anyway at the moment.

    In any case, I think that this will be a watershed moment leading to wireless PCVR play across the board - ideally not just for those who have an ideal setup (5GHz wifi network, PC connected via Ethernet cable). For those who mostly play stationary VR games, sims and the like, there can always be a cable option (as there is with Quest 2), but once it's been shown that wireless PCVR play is feasible, I think it'll quickly become the standard, except perhaps for the headsets with the highest resolution and FOV.

  19. #1319
    I've been testing Oculus Air for a few days now, and it works great for me (for the record, I do have a 5G/ethernet setup). I haven't had it crash once. The primary game I've been testing it on is Alyx, which runs mostly super smooth with an occasional jitter here and there, nothing that would deter you from playing. I've also tested it on Saint & Sinners and that worked equally well.

    What I thought was interesting though was that when I played Alyx using Virtual Desktop, I got drastically worse performance. The game was playable, but only by the lowest definition. Tons of delay and stuttering and just not smooth. I would never play the game this way in the long term, I'd switch to my Link cable instead. I thought this might be worth mentioning, in case people thought having Virtual Desktop was enough. I plan to test out a few other demanding games soon, but I'm guessing the performance will be similar.

  20. #1320
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    Yeah, the one time that Air Link worked for me, it also felt a fair bit more smooth than Virtual Desktop. the frame-rate smoothing techniques implemented by Oculus. As far as I know, they don't work, or not fully, via Virtual Desktop. From what I've read around the web, fast-paced, latency-critical games such as rhythm games will definitely feel/play better on a wired connection (or, whenever possible, on the native Quest 2 version), but anything that isn't as twitchy seems to work very well on Air Link.

    I suspect that my crashes are due to some conflict with other software, but without having access to some sort of crash report it's difficult to pinpoint what it is. Since I've not found many people with the same problem, I suspect that I'm in a relatively small minority here, because otherwise you'd get way more complaints.

  21. #1321
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    ... and I got Air Link to work - and I'm happy to say it works tremendously well, even though my PC isn't connected to the router by Ethernet cable. I played about an hour or so of The Walking Dead: Saints & Sinners, and not being connected by cable definitely makes a major difference in a game like this.

  22. #1322
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    I've been playing some Eleven Table Tennis and Star Wars Pinball VR on Quest 2. The latter is fun fan service, and it's also a pretty good pinball game, as far as I can tell, though I wish they'd make the environments and the pinball machines more tactile. It's serviceable, but it doesn't feel all that much like you're actually there playing on a real pinball machine.

    Eleven Table Tennis is a fun throwback for me, because I used to play so much as a kid. What surprises me is how real it feels. When I first played the game about a year or two ago, it was good but there was still something off compared to the real thing. Perhaps it's just that on Quest 2 I can play untethered or perhaps they've tweaked the physics and feedback to a point where there's an actual risk of me wanting to lean on the table and falling flat on my face.

  23. #1323
    Level 10,000 achieved
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Finland
    I think one thing that helps with realism in Eleven is that IRL ping pong balls are so light that you don’t really feel an impact from a hit. Simply having a small vibration-jolt in the controller and a convincing soundeffect is enough to make it feel like the real thing.

  24. #1324
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    I think that must be it, plus the controllers are reasonably close in weight to ping pong paddles. The game didn't feel this accurate when I first played it, but whatever the reason, it pretty much feels just right at this point.

  25. #1325
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    Just finished The Walking Dead: Saints & Sinners, playing the last few missions in untethered VR thanks to Air Link. It's a pretty good game, almost an immersive sim in some ways (though its systems are fairly shallow and not particularly interesting), and I hope that later VR games build on what it does - but the mission and environmental design is middling at best, and especially the final mission is muddled. I just about understood what my different options were, but I wasn't entirely clear on how to bring them about, and the game design and controls definitely could've done with more work. As a result, I ended up getting the two parties I was asked to decide between killed, not because I chose this option but because I accidentally clicked away a conversation prompt and a script kicked in.

    Short P.S. concerning Air Link: On my previous USB wifi adapter, Air Link worked, but just about, as it seems that my wifi connection was patchy. I went and got a new adapter, and hey presto! It's stable and fast and I can even turn up the streaming bitrate to the maximum. Air Link has turned out to be a great surprise, considering how well it works and what a difference untethered play makes especially in games like Saints & Sinners that put you in a fairly open environment. Looking forward to returning to Skyrim VR like this!

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