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Thread: Thief 3 Gold - Public beta test (TDS Spoilers ahead, obviously!)

  1. #51
    New Member
    Registered: Jul 2004
    Just checked this mission again after reinstalling the localization. Sitting guard was there and puppet in the Observatory walked down the stairs. Seems something was broken in my copy of the game.

  2. #52
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    OK, thanks for the Information. I will in any case try to simplify the nav mesh in some cases where its complexity might cause problems. I just don't have much space/memory left for the Cradle since snobel already had to give the game a little boost to run it.

    Yara, what about the other missing patrols? I would still have a look at the Auldale convo, the museum showcase and maybe the door blocking issue in the Cradle.

  3. #53
    New Member
    Registered: Jul 2004
    1) I checked the Cradle once again and found an interesting thing. Seems NPC's positions tend to shift when I jump into stitch mode and back again many times. When I used a toy first time ghost in the chair was in the right place but when I used other toys he spawned in the Exercise Yard. One time he even couldn't find the way to his room and ran back and forth behind the door and one time he stuck there but began to move when I jumped loudly.


    After several trips to "past" and back to "reality" puppet from Lobotomy theatre moved to the hallway.

    2) Guards in Audale still refuse to speak.



    3) I checked patrols in the Museum. Guard in the library was OK. Seems last time he just stuck in the bookcase. Guards on the balconies I wrote about earlier still don't patrol.

    And I found another glitch which I didn't notice before because I am an awful tester.

  4. #54
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    Oh crap, BSP errors. I can only try to squeeze in some bug fixing this weekend. Thanks for the reports, you are invaluable!

    Edit1: Snobel and myself are already tackling the Auldale convo problem. Seems like the two necessary scripts have been deleted... which is odd because I am pretty sure I have seen them before and also heard the convo in a beta test of T3G.
    Last edited by Beleg Cúthalion; 24th May 2014 at 06:34.

  5. #55
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    BSP error should be fixed, there was a zone portal too much in the doorway. I also moved the two goblets in the show case further away from the border so they should be less easy to frob. I could make them frobbable only after smashing the glass but that'd require a custom script and the museum map is quite large already. I can try, though, if necessary.

    By the way, Yara, do you happen to have a savegame right before the not-working Auldale convo? Maybe shortly before the museum mission? That way I could check the two things with the new maps and not only with the editor version.

  6. #56

  7. #57
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    Thanks a lot! I found both issues. I think the best solution for the two guards would be to make them appear only on the day where they have their conversation. It is possible to catch these fellows in different quarters with the convo immediately continuing (there are five convos about the infested wound) even though the content indicates that a few days must have passed between the two stages. But it would probably be too much of a change to "fix" this behaviour.

  8. #58
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    A little update: I tested the current beta version with Yara's savegames and it turns out that the guards are a) there when first entering Auldale (is this original?) and b) still there on the final day, however no statues as if something wasn't transferred properly. I need some more time for that.

    For the time being, I added a script to the two museum display case glasses which make the loot frobable only after destroying the glass. Seems to work fine now.

  9. #59
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Location: Prince Edward Island, Canada
    Out of curiosity, are the savegames from previous builds of the gold beta? I'm just wondering if old savegames will have compatibility issues.

  10. #60
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    I haven't released any modified missions after the first public call for beta testers and all savegames provided in the first post should be from that version (and I have the very same package which snobel wrapped up running on my machine). That's why the missing statues are a bit weird but on the other hand I might have lost track of all the stuff going on simultaneously. Usually TDS responds with a CTD when savegames are not matching the map to be loaded but I've seen creepy exceptions. As I said, it'll take some more time to figure out, especially since e.g. the two Auldale guards have their convo scripts deleted even in the original mission file.

  11. #61
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    Quote Originally Posted by Yara View Post
    2) Guards in Audale still refuse to speak.
    Fixed! Finally! Well, sort of. Both now have proper scripts to appear after you visited Drept and then they do their convo and start patrolling in front of the pub. If you move to another map first, then come back and approach them, they will have started patrolling for some reason but still do their convo in the middle of it. I wanted to make them disappear after their convo but that'd require adding a custom flag so I can store the information about them having finished it (so they won't disappear with the player nearby but only after changing maps). If I let them delete without querying if the convo had finished, their convo happens without them, quite a scary thing to witness.

    The way I see it, I should maybe wrap up the City sections with the tweaked enforcers but otherwise all reported serious bugs should be fixed, am I right? I will post another suggestion in the T3D dev thread, though.

  12. #62
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    Good job! If there's going to be a custom Ints.txt file (for enforcer configurability) then using another custom int to keep track of the convo may be better than introducing a custom flag (and Flags.txt file) for that purpose?

  13. #63
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    Did we plan a custom Ints.txt (or rather custom data in the Ints.txt)? Ah, yes, the Widow Moira fix. Well, in this case, I can go ahead.

    How do we want to tweak the enforcers? I guess making them not attack civillians should be a "hard tweak", however it would be strange with they remained visible. Should all enforcer tweaks (i.e. no civilian hostility, invisibility, increased awareness and making them approach the player once any of the enforcers in a map has spotted the him) be linked to an option outside the game? Or only parts?

  14. #64
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    Right, it was introduced for the Moira loot thing - I forgot.

    How do we want to tweak the enforcers? I guess making them not attack civillians should be a "hard tweak", however it would be strange with they remained visible.
    The enforcers are allegedly very stealthy and don't carry conventional weapons. So it's plausible that civilians would ignore them?

    Should all enforcer tweaks (i.e. no civilian hostility, invisibility, increased awareness and making them approach the player once any of the enforcers in a map has spotted the him) be linked to an option outside the game? Or only parts?
    If it's not too hard to do then individual options should make everybody happy...

  15. #65
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    Here we go, two new entries to the Ints.txt:
    T3G_KeeperAssassinsInvis 0 1 0 -1
    T3G_KeeperAssassinsTelepathy 0 1 0 -1

    Standard value is zero, in this case only the following changes are applied: their body types changed to "monster" (which AFAIK makes other AIs go "WTF is that?" instead of "murder!" when they see their corpses), their health increased from 10 to 12 and a slight fire rate increase IIRC. Earlier I had their sensory awareness increased by 100%, that's probably why Yara found them so frustratingly overpowered.

    If T3G_KeeperAssassinsInvis goes up to 1 and the difficulty level is HARD or EXPERT, the enforcers will turn invisible, won't have shadows, won't attack civilians and have a slight sensory awareness boost (1.3 instead of 1).

    If T3G_KeeperAssassinsTelepathy goes up to 1 and the difficulty level is EXPERT, the enforcers will approach the player once any of them has spotted him. For logic reasons I think this tweak should only be allowed to be activated if the former already is.

    Note to myself: Only OldQuarter1 wrapped up with this status.

  16. #66
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    Sounds good to me.

    For logic reasons I think this tweak should only be allowed to be activated if the former already is.
    Are you going to do this in the scripts, or should the configuration tool handle it? (In the latter case it will be possible to get around it by manually editing the file, of course.)

  17. #67
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    I had thought of something like in those annoying install routines where they ask you to install a new browser and if you click the check box, another one below gets enabled where you can choose to change the start page in said browser.

  18. #68
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    Sorry for double post, I've just included the latest enforcer fixes in all remaining City maps (i.e. built them for export) and also fixed the navmesh in the Cradle's courtyard where the AIs supposedly thought they could walk through the bars. Hopefully this will help with some of the irrational running around.

    Edit: I updated a couple of things in the first post.
    Last edited by Beleg Cúthalion; 23rd Jun 2014 at 17:34.

  19. #69
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    The map package was updated?

  20. #70
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    On my hard drive, yes. If I find nothing wrong with some things I've tweaked lately (I'm doing a test myself at the moment), the map package can go 1.0 soon. It will be provided as an FMSel-ready FM until the big version of the Sneaky Upgrade is ready later this year hopefully to implement all the fancy stuff we have.

  21. #71
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    This is what the configuration tool will look like:



    As you can see it's pretty basic but ought to be somewhat better than manual editing...

    Beleg, do you have any comments regarding the T3G options?

  22. #72
    bikerdude
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Beleg Cúthalion View Post
    the map package can go 1.0 soon. It will be provided as an FMSel-ready FM
    Quote Originally Posted by snobel View Post
    This is what the configuration tool will look like:
    Thanks guys, looking forward to it.

  23. #73
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    Looks great! Strictly speaking, though, the Widow Moira fix affects all difficulty levels, it's just that only on EXPERT the loot percentage comes into play.

    By the way, I'm still working on the Seaside Mansion aftermath. If you kill the widow and take the inheritance, Curtis shows up to beat Garrett but the revenge letter written by Edwina isn't there (it probably is in vanilla TDS but I wrote a script to avoid that). What doesn't work yet, IIRC, is the actual vine loot and thank-you letter being placed inside Garrett's apartment if he was nice to her.
    Last edited by Beleg Cúthalion; 22nd Jul 2014 at 05:10.

  24. #74
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    OK, thanks. I'll change the text so that it's clear.

  25. #75
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Location: Prince Edward Island, Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by snobel View Post
    This is what the configuration tool will look like:

    Lovely. Sorry I wasn't any help getting the Minimalist Changes in there, but any memory I had of how I did all that stuff has long since left me. Hope it all works out and I'm looking forward to playing it.

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