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Thread: Thief 3 Gold - Public beta test (TDS Spoilers ahead, obviously!)

  1. #126
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    Wow, even more... I'm away for the weekend but hopefully next week I can continue this bugfixing orgy. I'm not lazy, just busy! Have a nice weekend everyone!

    Edit: I just came back and managed to get the candles fixed. It requires the change of the links of all candles in question in a map but that should still be doable. What doesn't have a prettier solution yet is the smoke emitter thing. I can try to look if there is a way to play them when not visible but it feels like a major (probably GameSys-related) thing. If I can find a more clever work-around, this might do the trick.

    Edit2: The extinguishing sounds for the candle works now, even if I had to write a custom script for that because I couldn't find why the original mechanic didn't work. I'll head over to the other maps this evening. Note to myself: lock the armoury door!
    Last edited by Beleg Cúthalion; 4th Sep 2014 at 03:21.

  2. #127
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2009
    Location: Ukraine
    Beleg Cúthalion

    Mesh is put aside the wall:



    The light is stepping out of the border allowed:




  3. #128
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2009
    Location: Ukraine



  4. #129
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2009
    Location: Ukraine
    The textures are different. It's better to replace one of them to the nearest tesxture:



    This mesh is obsolete - please remove it:



    "Volume" is not working. The water does not produce splash drops:



    Brush is out of the borde:



    Keepers have Pagan outfit. Please replace with the proper ones:



    BSP hole is visible here:


  5. #130
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2009
    Location: Ukraine
    Please increase the limit of the weapons count:



    The textures are lost on the guardian:



    This brush is open:




    The pipe has no shadow:



    There is a bug in smugglers' shops in Auldale and Stonemarket after the Museum mission: Garrett cannot sell the goods and cannot leave the shop.

    The City is completely empty after the Museum mission - there are no NPCs and there is no Gamall!

  6. #131
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: College Place, WA
    Wow, nice work, Savar. I'm sure Beleg Cúthalion will have a heyday with these.

    Are you testing the gold levels that have been released though? You mentioned the pipe having no shadows in "Hammer Intro", but the levels have been merged in the Gold Version, so there's no loading zones.

    Increasing the item carry limits constitutes a gameplay change, and I don't think the project will do that.
    I'm not sure about changing textures either. I expect it would have to obviously be a bug, because there is such thing as accent walls.
    Why do you suggest deleting the wall decoration? A lot of people have decorative plates and platters mounted on their walls.

  7. #132
    New Member
    Registered: Sep 2014
    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Slaughter View Post
    In St. Edgar's church, one of the objectives is:

    -Attach the stamped gear and the holy symbol to the mechanism protecting the Chalice.

    Well, I do that and the objective does not get checked, then I get the chalice (that objective line gets checked) and try end the mission, but can't because of that objective unchecked.

    Oh, and I notice some equipment with huge gears in the factory section of the church were misaligned, and strangelly realigned themselves after a reload.

    Edit:

    O yes, kudos for this project and Beleg, I (almost) forget the "thank you". this project is a dream come true... finally a real thief 3.
    I am still getting this bug in the release candidate of Thief 3 Gold (1.0) , because of this issue I cannot finish this mission since the objective to put the gear and symbol is not checked off.

    Edit: Tried again, the objective never came up so I never had to finish it. While replaying I noticed quite a few errors, not sure how many are related to the mod. For one Greidus will often freeze on his patrol route at some random location. Second, saves can corrupt especially around the barracks area. Third, the NPCs seem to be inconsistent in their positioning, for example the priest involved in the Inspector Drept conversation stood by the door to the factory the first time in such a way that I could sneak by him by walking through the lit area on the far right. On my second playthrough he angled himself more towards that area and it was thus impossible to ghost past him forcing me to gas bomb him.
    Last edited by inset_judgement; 8th Sep 2014 at 04:01.

  8. #133
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    And I almost thought I could watch those DVDs I had bought. Well, in reversed order:
    inset_judgement: Unfortunately we haven't heard of Darth Slaughter again and IIRC the bug wasn't reproducible. Have you tried restarting the mission? If it still has this bug, try to remember in which order you solved the objectives, frobbed the objects in question etc. This should help finding a bug that might occur when things are done in a not-expected order. Otherwise I'd be looking for a needle in a haystack. Next idea would be to make sure your install/setup is clean, cf. what I suggest to Savar.

    Savar: Thanks for your efforts, I'll slowly work myself through all that. The bugs with the Auldale fence which you cannot leave and the empty City are a thing that I should have fixed quite some time ago. I cannot remember the circumstances right now, but with a clean TDS/SneakyUpgrade/T3Gold install it shouldn't happen. Since you have a lot of weird other stuff happening as well, I suspect it's a question of a clean install and not T3G itself.
    Quote Originally Posted by AntiMatter_16 View Post
    In other news...
    Pagan Sanctuary:
    Two plants in the canal are floating in mid air initially, until bumped. The rock behind the first one is also permeable to the player.
    The dagger hit sounds don't play when attacking the treebeast in the sewer canals.
    This pipe support is experiencing some Z-fighting. It also goes right through the pipe, while all others support the pipe from below. Recommend moving it to appear like the others.
    Some kind of haze in the hole leading from the sewers to the sanctuary. It's visible only from the top down.
    Lighting problems from a torch.
    In this video, witness the disappearing world. There also appears to be some difficulty with mantling on that edge at the end. Perhaps an invisible wall to prevent players from falling to their death?
    Z-fighting on a couple of doorways, and some beams.
    Is the floating lock unique to this door, or all doors?
    There are two arrows here and one (hilighted) is sunk into the barrel.
    Because of the low angle, this gap in the rock through which the skybox is visible always broke immersion for me. Recommend obscuring the sky.

    More SouthQuarter:
    Light leaking through a door.
    Z-Fighting on a windowsill.
    I went through all this over the weekend. I cannot completely fix the disappearing architecture in the Pagan tunnels because the level geometry and how the portal/render system works in T3Ed would require a major re-design of the maps. I've managed to decrease the major annoyance you posted but everything else would take a long time and probably result in worse performance since I'd have to make the game render more scenes at once. The plants are strange, they are something like AI but only get "activated" when touched. I tried to apply some stimulus to them with a script but that didn't work. Maybe I'll find another way, otherwise it has to stay as it is. The "inaudible" treebeast is another thing where I have barely an idea how to solve it.

  9. #134
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2005
    Location: Brazil
    Quote Originally Posted by Beleg Cúthalion View Post
    And I almost thought I could watch those DVDs I had bought. Well, in reversed order:
    inset_judgement: Unfortunately we haven't heard of Darth Slaughter again and IIRC the bug wasn't reproducible. Have you tried restarting the mission? If it still has this bug, try to remember in which order you solved the objectives, frobbed the objects in question etc. This should help finding a bug that might occur when things are done in a not-expected order. Otherwise I'd be looking for a needle in a haystack. Next idea would be to make sure your install/setup is clean, cf. what I suggest to Savar.
    Sorry about disappearing!!! One thing I might add is that when that bug occurred, I had the sneaky upgrade installed, with PART of minimalist project installed:

    I the case of minimalist project, I like the Hud being similar to old thiefs, but I hated the new difficulty settings, that kind of "forced" playstiles, so I reverted to the old file from game vanilla with the previous difficulty settings (vanilla ones). That's the only difference in my installation of thief 3.

    That bug occurred in that condition, in the former beta. I restarted the game again with 1.0, but I lost my old saves, and so It may take a while for me to get back to hammerite intro again.

    Well, let's see if I can reproduce the bug... I forgot by now the order I did things before.

    On the subject of minimalist mod, will the sneaky upgrade installer implement it with the possibility of using just the graphical changes? Or will it be just the full implementation?

    See ya...

  10. #135
    New Member
    Registered: Sep 2014
    I don't quite remember the order, but I know that the second time I did it I never got that objective to begin with. To reproduce it I think you need to look at what actually causes that objective to appear.

  11. #136
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Slaughter View Post
    On the subject of minimalist mod, will the sneaky upgrade installer implement it with the possibility of using just the graphical changes? Or will it be just the full implementation?
    There will be more configurability than in the original and by default the difficulty settings will be lower (but not vanilla). I'll consider adding an option to force vanilla difficulty. The gamesys changes (guards not getting tired etc.) would still be active, though.

  12. #137
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2005
    Location: Brazil
    Quote Originally Posted by snobel View Post
    There will be more configurability than in the original and by default the difficulty settings will be lower (but not vanilla). I'll consider adding an option to force vanilla difficulty. The gamesys changes (guards not getting tired etc.) would still be active, though.
    I have no problem with it not being vanilla, my problem was with it having the difficulty settings exchanged for different play styles. In fact, all of the diferent play styles actually had the same difficulty setting. I sometimes like changing play styles during the level.

    My point is, graphically, minimalist project changes thief 3 UI into something like thief 1 and 2. I'd love if gameplay was similar to the originals. Increasing difficulty is ok, as long as requirements stay more free... and of course, I'm in favor of an option that maintain minimalist mod settings. Anyway, I believe this is something to discuss in the sneaky upgrade thread...

    I'm almost at pagan intro and I'll focus on that bug...

  13. #138
    New Member
    Registered: Sep 2014
    Ive played up to the Cradle now. I wanted to ask: What are the plans for unghostable AI positions? There's quite a few throughout the game and it was far less of an issue in Thief 1 and 2.
    Last edited by inset_judgement; 10th Sep 2014 at 22:27.

  14. #139
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    Quote Originally Posted by inset_judgement View Post
    Ive played up to the Cradle now. I wanted to ask: What are the plans for unghostable AI positions? There's quite a few throughout the game and it was far less of an issue in Thief 1 and 2.
    I've already fixed a few, e.g. in the Clocktower mission and Rutherford Castle (where it was in fact a not-finished patrol). If you can provide me with the exact locations and if you make sure that e.g. the ghosting vids on YouTube show the same problems as you had, I'd consider making a small-scale fix. However, I wouldn't completely smooth out the gameplay, as I've said before.

  15. #140
    New Member
    Registered: Sep 2014
    Quote Originally Posted by Beleg Cúthalion View Post
    I've already fixed a few, e.g. in the Clocktower mission and Rutherford Castle (where it was in fact a not-finished patrol). If you can provide me with the exact locations and if you make sure that e.g. the ghosting vids on YouTube show the same problems as you had, I'd consider making a small-scale fix. However, I wouldn't completely smooth out the gameplay, as I've said before.
    The one stands out to me is the sleeping puppet in the morgue, this has been noted in ghosting videos before as well. See:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0st8DBP3FE
    1 hour 14 minutes around

  16. #141
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    Finally some new bug-fixing:
    Quote Originally Posted by AntiMatter_16 View Post
    Saint Edgar's Cathedral

    Flame particles are visible beneath this statue.

    The front doors are misaligned so that light seeps through the west door. They also both sink into the terrain when open.

    The Flying Buttresses have some z-fighting on them.
    Nearby, there's some sloppy brushwork.

    I would expect that these wall mounted candles near the front entrance should be able to be frobbed out.
    Same with these candles and these candles by the Suspension Cage.
    And this candle in the barracks. And this one.

    This machine doesn't make its electrical buzz sound until it's been turned off and turned on again.
    Similarly, this machine is silent until turned on and off. There's something odd though. If you turn the machine back on before the light finishes fading, the light's state gets reversed, that is, the light turns off when the machine gets turned on, and the light turns on when the machine gets turned off.
    All of that's done. I'm especially proud of my hack for the buzzing machine which now has a "Have you tried turning it off and on again" script switching it off and on as soon as the player gets 64 feet near it. I haven't experienced the bug with the reversed state since, either. The other workarounds are likewise simple but effective. What you haven't mentioned are the 16 oil lamps on the ceiling which get into strange angles because they collide with the supporting rafters etc. So I'll have to deactivate physics from all of these supports next.

    I believe I've also moved the Cradle morgue puppet away from the entrance but haven't checked yet if it works better.

    Edit: Aaaand I did the rest of St Edgar's Church. Let's see what's next...
    Last edited by Beleg Cúthalion; 19th Sep 2014 at 03:01.

  17. #142
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: College Place, WA
    Awesome stuff! Keep up the good work. ^_^

  18. #143
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    I just worked my way through the last of Savar's reports. Some of them couldn't really be fixed (like missing shadows caused by ambient lights), others were no real bugs (like the Keeper robes, they aren't Pagan), but most stuff could be tweaked. I'm not sure about the shallow water volume in the Cradle; we're very close to the property limit and I'm not sure if I can risk that. In any case, thanks again, Savar! I'll see if I can squeeze in a briefing video test this evening.

    Edit: The briefing video implementation via the frobbable glyphs works like a charm. I'll just have to come up with an idea for the Castle (and Inn) map(s) because they are not started this way.
    Last edited by Beleg Cúthalion; 21st Sep 2014 at 16:56.

  19. #144
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Location: New Jersey, USA
    I have a problem in St. Edgar's wherein my objectives are all completed, but the placing of the gear and chalice is not checked off and it won't let me exit the mission. This is a fresh, clean Steam install with only this mod installed on it.

  20. #145
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    Apparently I really have to take a look at this thing. Either this or there is still some uncleanness in the set up process. Luckily this evening I'll have some time.

    Edit: I've removed a requirement that you have to have read a note about the holy symbol and gear for the goal to be ticked off. The uncleanness in this probably was that you were able to place the gear and holy symbol in their receptacles but had to read the note about it first for the objective to tick off. So there were AFAIK two ways to solve this, either make the receptacles unfrobbable before reading the note or make reading the note not compulsory. I'm not entirely sure if that was the best way to fix it but due to the many possibilities in this goal system (having or having not read a certain note with or without the objects already in the inventory etc. etc.) I didn't try to make a complete analysis.
    Last edited by Beleg Cúthalion; 25th Sep 2014 at 16:01.

  21. #146
    New Member
    Registered: Oct 2014
    I've just finished my first playthrough Thief 3 Gold using the 1.0 files; what a super mod! Loved being able to explore the missions without loading zones; and pleased to say all nine missions plus the tutorial worked great!

    The one major bug I had was that after the Wieldstrom Museum mission and the subsequent cutscene with Gamall and Orland, the final endgame events were not present on the city maps. I was able to travel to each city zone and place the five sentients in their respective places, but there was no sign of Gamall or any of the stone statues. In fact, aside from one guard on the streets of Auldale and a few other individuals in various maps all the streets were completely deserted! I got all Garrett's voiceover feedback as I placed each sentient, plus regular comments from The Eye. Once all of the sentients were placed the usual fade-to-black and ending cutscene played as per normal.

    Also, all four of the fences' stores all appeared to be broken. When I entered any of them, the game would become unresponsive (I would be able to see the sidebar, my gold total and the 'Sell All' button but nothing else) forcing me to quit out of the game and reload a previous save. All the stores were working, though.

    Hopefully this can be fixed in the forthcoming 'Gold+Sneaky Upgrade+JohnP Textures' release. I thoroughly enjoyed the playthrough; it was just a rather straightforward and somewhat anti climatic endgame!
    Last edited by Shantih; 6th Oct 2014 at 12:20.

  22. #147
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    Shantih, can you upload some savegames to help debug this? Maybe one from near the end of the Museum map, one from the City just before the Museum, and one outside a broken store or fence...

  23. #148
    New Member
    Registered: Oct 2014
    Sure! I've uploaded a selection the saves I made as I was playing through Gamall's Lair, the Museum and the Endgame!

    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/n18qmol6y...LBy_UvWYa?dl=0

    Quote Originally Posted by snobel View Post
    Shantih, can you upload some savegames to help debug this? Maybe one from near the end of the Museum map, one from the City just before the Museum, and one outside a broken store or fence...

  24. #149
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    Thanks!

  25. #150
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    I hate it to always blame this bug – as above – on a corrupted install, but apparently it's the only thing I can do. However, I'll have a look at the savegame tonight, hopefully.

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