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Thread: Fms that won't work properly with New Dark - Summary of Issues in OP

  1. #76
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2009
    Location: Pawtucket,Rhode Island
    Yeah my bad I meant Calendra's Cistern.

  2. #77
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2010
    Location: A Former Forest
    So far, I have not had much trouble with older FMs on my system, but with one exception. Ultima Ratio. While it worked fine for most of the FM, in the secret room of the Hammer Priest there is a bookcase and what looks like it is supposed to be a frob-able book, but where the book should be is empty. Nothing to frob. Just an empty hole where a book should be. Maybe this was unintentional and in the original release, but I am not sure.

    Otherwise, I have not had issues with new dark since wiping my install clean and re-installing about a month or so ago. I have not played any of the older FMs though that have a lot of "tricks" and kludges that were used to work around the limits of the older engine, or greatly enhance the experience.

    So far, no weird water effects, crashes, or whatnot for me. I guess I am really lucky. I am going to try out some of the games you others are saying are broken for you and see if they blow up on me too.

    Update - yes, thinking about it further, I have had issues with some FMs with quick saves after a while. A regular save will work, but a quick save will not "take", so to speak. I simply close the game and restart and it works again. Sort of a pain, but not really that bad. This was with most of these (I cannot say exactly which ones, since I did not keep track that closely)... Wicked Relics, Bloodmist Tower, Keeper Investigations, and His Own Medicine. Please note though that I occasionally had the same issues with quick saves with the original dark engine.
    Last edited by bjack; 29th Apr 2014 at 13:47.

  3. #78
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    not sure what am I supposed to think about "quicksave will not take". anyway, as mentioned before, quicksaves near the problematic places would be helpful - I don't mind having a quick look, and posting a dml if the problem is something simple (like that fully lit piece of stone in Shadow of Doubt), but I'm not going to swoop around the map in the editor looking for a "hammer library with secret book switch". SSD guys, SSD (screenshot, save, description).

  4. #79
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: Between dreams and shadows...
    I note that if saves are such a drastic problem, there is another alternative in NewDark:
    • Load the level you want to test
    • Find the location of a problem in the level
    • Open the console by pressing : (that is, shift + ; )
    • type the following into the console: log_player_pos Some message indicating the problem
    • Repeat as necessary for other problems
    • Quit the game
    • Post the contents of the Thief.log or Thief2.log file

    For example, if you're in a level and you find a texture problem on a wall, you can do

    log_player_pos Texture misaligned on wall to the north

    and it will write a line like

    : PLAYER POS: 468.13 490.259 448.018 ; Texture misaligned on wall to the north

    in the log file. Unfortunately the log_player_pos command doesn't seem to provide a way to record the orientation, but it's better than some vaguely-worded description of a location in a pinch.

  5. #80
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2010
    Location: A Former Forest
    Quote Originally Posted by voodoo47 View Post
    not sure what am I supposed to think about "quicksave will not take". anyway, as mentioned before, quicksaves near the problematic places would be helpful - I don't mind having a quick look, and posting a dml if the problem is something simple (like that fully lit piece of stone in Shadow of Doubt), but I'm not going to swoop around the map in the editor looking for a "hammer library with secret book switch". SSD guys, SSD (screenshot, save, description).
    I am confused here. I am not asking anyone to look into anything here. I am just commenting on what I have experienced in one FM. Ultima Ratio has not been commented upon for many years. I played it a few days ago, since it was one I had never tried before. I had just one bug, or what I thought was a bug. Maybe it was just what the author created. Who knows? It is not a big deal and now I regret even mentioning it My whole point of the post was to say I was not having much of an issue at all with any T2 FMs.

    As for the quick save, what I meant by this is the quick save stops working entirely in some games after a few hours of play. It does not save with Alt s or with the Esc and quick save click. No save at all. Regular saves to a specific save "slot" still work. In addition, the Alt l also does not work when the saves fail. And as said before, this has happened to me before New Dark came out, so I would imagine that this problem may just be an FM problem and not a New Dark issue. I cannot tell you the exact FMs the quick save fails on (except for the recent play with Ultima Ratio), but that is really not important to me anyway. My work around is to save in a hard slot, stop the game and restart. Problem solved for me.

    Cheers

    BTW - I like the New Dark a lot and I am happy there are people out there dedicated enough to rework that engine to make it better. Reading over the previous posts, it looks to me that most of the problems are with T1 FMs and not T2. I was going to try to play the ones mentioned, but saw they were mostly T1 missions, something I cannot play yet, since I do not have T1 or T1 Gold.

  6. #81
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2012
    Location: On parole
    Quote Originally Posted by bjack View Post
    So far, I have not had much trouble with older FMs on my system, but with one exception. Ultima Ratio. While it worked fine for most of the FM, in the secret room of the Hammer Priest there is a bookcase and what looks like it is supposed to be a frob-able book, but where the book should be is empty. Nothing to frob. Just an empty hole where a book should be. Maybe this was unintentional and in the original release, but I am not .
    Just a possibility but the same thing happens in 'The Mystery Man' a hole in a bookcase where there is no book, turns out this is only a frobable book when playing on expert, but when playing on lower levels you find the hidden key in a different room so the book in the bookcase appears as a hole. It is a NewDark glitch that removes the book entirely when the book does not need to be frobbed. So probably not worth worrying about

  7. #82
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    the point is that it would take me 5 seconds to check the place, with a good chance of fixing it in less than another minute, IF I had access to the quicksave (or the player position info). "there is a slight problem in the level, but it's not critical and it does not prevent progress, so it's not worth mentioning or checking upon, but I will post about it anyway" is the most counter productive thing I've seen in a while. EVERYTHING is worth checking - there might be some underlying issue that needs to be revealed so it can be fixed (the broken/unfinished m-sleeping servant metaproperty Xmodule found would be a nice example - does it prevent completing the game? certainly not. but is it one ugly broken thing that is better off fixed? heck yes).

  8. #83
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2012
    Location: On parole
    @ Voodoo47

    can supply a save for the same situation in 'The Mystery Man'

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7U...it?usp=sharing

     photo dump023_zps1d389251.png
    Last edited by fortuni; 30th Apr 2014 at 04:18.

  9. #84
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    the item is set to destroy itself on difficulty 1 and 2 - so as far as I can see, this is working properly. if the item was not getting destroyed under oldDark, then it was a because of a(n oldDark) bug.

  10. #85
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2009
    Location: Germany
    Quote Originally Posted by bjack View Post
    Ultima Ratio. While it worked fine for most of the FM, in the secret room of the Hammer Priest there is a bookcase and what looks like it is supposed to be a frob-able book, but where the book should be is empty. Nothing to frob. Just an empty hole where a book should be. Maybe this was unintentional and in the original release, but I am not sure.
    Hey bjack, this is not a new dark issue. It's a matter of the difficulty settings, because I placed various trigger elements for the secret book shelf door. While in easy you just have to push a button, in the higher difficulty settings you need to find this secret book. Or was it vise versa? I hope you understand me

  11. #86
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2009
    Location: Pawtucket,Rhode Island
    When ever I run into an bug in mission that may or may not be related to an incompatibility with New Dark.I'll try to remember to make a save at the location and post a screenshot.Sadly for the missions I mentioned I no longer have those saves.But that's really only a problem in regard to the Calendra and Brimstone Fight.
    The problem in Ramirez Revenge is right at the beginning of the level.

  12. #87
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2010
    Location: A Former Forest
    Quote Originally Posted by voodoo47 View Post
    the point is that it would take me 5 seconds to check the place, with a good chance of fixing it in less than another minute, IF I had access to the quicksave (or the player position info). "there is a slight problem in the level, but it's not critical and it does not prevent progress, so it's not worth mentioning or checking upon, but I will post about it anyway" is the most counter productive thing I've seen in a while. EVERYTHING is worth checking - there might be some underlying issue that needs to be revealed so it can be fixed (the broken/unfinished m-sleeping servant metaproperty Xmodule found would be a nice example - does it prevent completing the game? certainly not. but is it one ugly broken thing that is better off fixed? heck yes).
    As PsymH said, this book issue in Ultima Ratio may be part of the game design instead. I played it on expert and had to use a switch instead of the book to open a secret. Maybe the book is disabled and not visible on expert when the switch replaces it. However, fortuni found something similar in Mystery Man.

    Here is a link that i hope works. It is a quick save near the end of the game, most things completed. Utima Ratio at Expert.

    https://drive.google.com/#folders/0B...Vk3ZDE5bUFZcXM
    Last edited by bjack; 3rd May 2014 at 14:28.

  13. #88
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    I'll ask a moderator, maybe it would be possible to enable zip attachments just for this topic. in the meantime, try sendspace, its really just opening the webpage, pointing it to the save file on your drive, clicking upload, and then posting the link it spews out here on the forum.

  14. #89
    Moderator
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: Wales
    I'm making enquiries of those who know what's possible in vBulletin.

  15. #90
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2010
    Location: A Former Forest
    Quote Originally Posted by voodoo47 View Post
    I'll ask a moderator, maybe it would be possible to enable zip attachments just for this topic. in the meantime, try sendspace, its really just opening the webpage, pointing it to the save file on your drive, clicking upload, and then posting the link it spews out here on the forum.
    This may help. I have renamed the file to quick.ziq . New link

    https://drive.google.com/?usp=chrome...XFwWXZSMXJrZzA

    Usually the filters just check the extension. After downloading it, just rename back to quick.zip, then unzip. It's about 900 KB zipped and 4.5 MB unzipped.

    Also, I cannot get the print screen to work at all. The pcx file is supposed to go to the thief directory, but it is not, nor anywhere else on my drive. I cannot post a screen shot, since a file is not generated. Oh well.

  16. #91
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    when using NewDark, hitting printscreen will automatically generate a png screenshot in the screenshots folder, right inside your Thief folder.

    also, you can upload zip files to gdrive perfectly fine, as long as you share them, they will be downloadable.
    Last edited by voodoo47; 3rd May 2014 at 15:32.

  17. #92
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2010
    Location: A Former Forest
    Quote Originally Posted by voodoo47 View Post
    when using NewDark, hitting printscreen will automatically generate a png screenshot in the screenshots folder, right inside your Thief folder.

    also, you can upload zip files to gdrive perfectly fine, as long as you share them, they will be downloadable.
    Thanks for the tip on the screenshot being a png and not a pcx like T1.

    The screenshot is a picture of the book case at the end of the head priests room (locked room on the right of the alter) in the cathedral in Ultima Ratio. It is two odd colored books (different than the rest, giving a clue there is a frob available). One book, assumed to be the one that would move, is missing.

    As for the save, I set up on GDrive to be shared with the world (unrestricted). You cannot access it? It is 2 directories deep from the root, so I have set the entire path as open to everyone. I do not use GDrive as a general rule. Don't trust it, but in this case it seems safe jsut for this save and screen shot.


    Save is at: https://drive.google.com/?tab=wo&aut...XFwWXZSMXJrZzA

    The file should come up as quick.ziq

    The screen shot is dumpBook.png in the same link
    Last edited by bjack; 3rd May 2014 at 16:14.

  18. #93
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    the book on the screenshot is a dummy book, it never does anything. there is a secret book switch (2443) right next to it, set to destroy itself on difficulty 1 and 2 (so it will only be there on the hardest difficulty). so again, everything working ok as far as I can see.

  19. #94
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2010
    Location: A Former Forest
    Quote Originally Posted by voodoo47 View Post
    the book on the screenshot is a dummy book, it never does anything. there is a secret book switch (2443) right next to it, set to destroy itself on difficulty 1 and 2 (so it will only be there on the hardest difficulty). so again, everything working ok as far as I can see.
    So that means the if playing on Hard or Expert, the book is destroyed. Playing on easy/normal (i.e. 0) would make it functional.

    Since both Fortuni playing Mystery Man and I on Ultima Ratio were playing on Expert, the book should be gone as we both experienced. Levels in Thief 2 are 0 for normal, 1 for hard, and 2 for expert. I double checked this with the DromEd tutorials, since I was under the impression it may be 1, 2, 3. Being a computer program though it makes sense it is 0, 1, 2.

    So, the bottom line here is this means that at least for these 2 games, there is no bug with these 2 book switches in New Dark. Cool.

  20. #95
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2012
    Location: Lucija, Slovenia
    I have encountered interesting issues in three different FMs I have played recently. Well, first of all, I don't know if these are New Dark issues, but one thing is for sure: all these bugs have been resolved by restarting the computer. So then, I didn't know that it actually was a bug. All were on T2, 1.19 with all the latest scripts. Note: mission spoilers ahead.

    a) Tales from the Cleft: Vandal. At one point in the mission you are supposed to look (frob) through the telescope to "see" something-scripted event and get your objectives ticked as well as to obtain new objectives. When I frobbed the telescope for the first time, nothing happened. However, when I reloaded the save later (after restarting computer), it was successful.

    The other minor problem was in the library in the mansion. There are books, which show its titles only by looking at them (no need to frob them), and these are important, because of the certain combination. When visiting the library for the first time, ok; but when in the same save I returned there, the titles have gone and also frobbing didn't help.


    b) The way of the sword. In observatory you have to bless the rosary by dropping it into water and taking it back to certain place. My problem was that when I dropped the rosary into water, I couldn't take it back. It didn't highlight.

    c) The Korrigans. At the Artists pub there is an event that triggers when you arrive at the balcony in one room to see a guy at the next balcony. He is attacked by monsters. After he is dead, this should happen (I discovered this at the end): the door in the hall leading to his room should have been broken (by some explosion) and I could enter the room. Also, the pub guests run away. What happened instead was that the guy was indeed dead, but the guests did not panic; the explosion happened, but the doors did not open, and instead I got 2 doors: the correct ones (broken, at the right), while the entrance was still locked by the old grey door from before.

    Here is the modified screenshot (from Youtube, Fen Phoenix): http://imgur.com/25bXWUG. I can not replicate the exact one, because the game has now decided to work. The red square "are" the locked grey doors I could not enter.

    I actually managed to get into the room from the balcony with the help of 2 crates. Luckily the two balconies were close.


    Maybe someone more experienced can help me-are these maybe random /graphic bugs, New Dark issue...?

  21. #96
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: LosAngeles: Between Amusements
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightwalker View Post
    It's incredibly easy to have more than one install of TG or T2. Why not just have a separate install without the new dark upgrade and use it to play the older missions? That's what I do and then you don't have to worry about them not working properly or being "broken".
    Unfortunately that is what is currently needed to play Finals at the Academy. NewDark does not allow as many automap details or pages as I used, and so the automaps (and I believe the notes) are broken. You need to play it on OldDark instead. I'm slowly working on a fix for this, but this is non-trivial. It may be quite a while before I figure out what to do.

  22. #97
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2012
    Location: On parole

    T1...Uninvited Guests...something weird going on when trying to play fm

    i tried to replay this fm today and a strange thing occured.....when i loaded this mission via FMsel the initial loading screen came up blank....ie nothing seen in difficulty / objective / start or quit but you can start the mission, but the mission that starts is Lord Baffords Manor, the T1 fm....?????

    when i try to play the mission via Darkloader another T1 fm starts entirely, i cant remember its name.....

    so i deleted the fm entirely, redownloaded from cheapmissions, same thing in FMsel, but this time in Darkloader Lord Baffords Manor booted up, even tho i had cleanup my book / Fam / intrface /Obj / Mesh / strings files

    Although i dont really care much about this fm as it was not particularly a great fm i am curious as to what the hell is going on,
    is it a corrupted file or is it a Newdark issue ?

    many thanks in advance

  23. #98
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    loads properly. seriously;

    -activate fm loader in cam_mod.ini
    -run the exe once, let it create the FMs folder, exit
    -place the FM into the FMs folder, must be extracted and in its own folder
    -run the exe, doubleclick the FM, play

  24. #99
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2012
    Location: On parole
    thanks Voodoo.... tried placing in separate folder, still the same......even deleted fm folder from HDmod file, installed manually....still cant get it to work, any chance it could just be my machine that for some reason doesn't like this fm ? not happening with any other fm

  25. #100
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2009
    Location: thiefgold.com
    Find it in the Darkloader.ini file, and if it says "type 2" change it to 1.

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