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View Poll Results: How would you rate NuThief?

Voters
119. You may not vote on this poll
  • 10 - Masterpiece

    2 1.68%
  • 9 - Amazing

    4 3.36%
  • 8 - Great

    8 6.72%
  • 7 - Good

    15 12.61%
  • 6 - Okay

    16 13.45%
  • 5 - Mediocre

    24 20.17%
  • 4 - Bad

    17 14.29%
  • 3 - Awful

    10 8.40%
  • 2 - Painful

    9 7.56%
  • 1 - Disaster

    14 11.76%
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Thread: How would you rate NuThief?

  1. #101
    ZylonBane
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: ZylonBane
    Quote Originally Posted by Specter View Post
    There is no way you are so simple as to think that boiling Thief games down to sneaking and stealing is all that made them great.
    Well, he's apparently simple enough to have enjoyed Thiaf, so it's not impossible.

  2. #102
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2005
    Location: Wisconsin
    Quote Originally Posted by Specter View Post
    It's these kind of posts that really make me wonder if you aren't just trying get people worked up for no other reason than to have a laugh. There is no way you are so simple as to think that boiling Thief games down to sneaking and stealing is all that made them great.
    The way everyone here talks, you'd think Thief was a First person crate stacker/jump-em-up.

  3. #103
    New Member
    Registered: Mar 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldmoon Dawn View Post
    Unlike the bulk of voters here, I most certainly represent the measuring of NuThief 'gainst the mighty classics that birthed Thief: The Dark Project, again, a classic in its own right. When it comes to the best of classic gaming, NuThief still hasnt passed the test. And from the standpoint of what gaming used to be, this game is a disaster. It abandoned everything that made Dark Project the classic it is. The end.
    Indeed, it should be judged for what it's marketed as—a successor to the Dark Project and as such it is a disaster. If this was promoted as a completely new game, called e.g. "the dark rouge" or something like that, I would simply rate it as bad and mostly because I'm biased in favor of stealth games (despite all its flaws it is a stealth game at least).

    Sadly it didn't come as a surprise either, the signs were there long before release (considering, for example, how the official forum was handled—a disaster in its own right). Eidos Montreal had every opportunity to get this right but for some strange reason decided not to listen to any suggestions except being able to disable features they were adding that nobody wanted to begin with.

  4. #104
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2008
    Location: Shadows of the Grotto
    I voted in the okay group. Yes as a Thief successor it was a disaster, but as a game it was ok. I took the good with the bad, sure the sound was bad, the plot was three stories mashed together that led to a train wreck ending which made no sense to me and some areas were forced, but I still enjoyed playing through it. The look and architecture was good and I liked the side missions/stories, and I liked the new movement mechanics. Alot of the missions had some good "wow" moments, but if anything it killed a good month and a half of the year... Side note, the original Trilogy has killed 15 years for me... and is still going!

  5. #105
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: The Plateaux Of Mirror
    Quote Originally Posted by marrow monkey View Post
    Indeed, it should be judged for what it's marketed as
    A reboot of an old series that no one really cares about anymore, outside of a bunch of 40 year olds who have been living in the past for half their lives (I'm not excluding myself here)? Can someone point to a trailer that said "THE RETURN OF MASTER THIEF GARRETT!!!" or made any references whatsoever to the original trilogy? I still find it amazing that they used the original games as a kind of 'old history' when there was no reason to outside of making a few of us smile appreciatively.

    Anyway, it's better than Deadly Shadows so whatever.

  6. #106
    There was that trailer where Garrett asks "Did you miss me?" Terrible line, but obviously playing up to the whole RETURN OF MASTER THIEF GARRETT thing. And if you look around here and the official forums, there's quite a few folks younger than 40, both playing and creating missions. I'm guessing old Thief has it's following elsewhere too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Moyer View Post
    Anyway, it's better than Deadly Shadows so whatever.
    Having played both somewhat recently, I'm going to disagree with this too (especially if you play the Gold version of T3). To me, new Thief didn't have much of an identity as being a Thief game. At least TDS had Hammerites and Keepers and Pagans and Stephen Russell and Eric Brosius and a real lightgem and a free movement and a host of other things. New Thief had Garrett 2.0 and...The City. That's it.

  7. #107
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2012
    Location: Germany
    One thing is certain: The City Hub is definitely better than it is in DS.

  8. #108
    New Member
    Registered: Mar 2013
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Moyer View Post
    A reboot of an old series that no one really cares about anymore, outside of a bunch of 40 year olds who have been living in the past for half their lives (I'm not excluding myself here)? Can someone point to a trailer that said "THE RETURN OF MASTER THIEF GARRETT!!!" or made any references whatsoever to the original trilogy? I still find it amazing that they used the original games as a kind of 'old history' when there was no reason to outside of making a few of us smile appreciatively.
    The thief games are unique in many ways. Personally I don't care so much that the story was rebooted but I had at least hoped for a game with the same basic gameplay mechanics as the old games (and a way to create fan missions). There are no other games that do what the original Thief games did. For most other types of successful games there are many clones but for some reason there are no Thief clones and no-one seems capable of producing anything similar. If Eidos didn't have the intention of doing that nor continuing the story they should't have called their game a Thief sequel and left the opportunity open for someone else.

    I did manage to play through all the main missions of Thi4f but it honestly wasn't much fun to me. The stealth mechanics is simplistic but unpredictable/nonsensical so you had to do trial and error (frustrating) in order to understand what works and not (not to mention what ledge you can climb/jump on) when it wasn't obvious (boring). Once you have figured out what to do repeating a mission is a chore since the levels are linear and do not allow for any variation. Add to that dull dialog (if you could hear any of it since the audio was broken) and the bad story and I don't see how anyone can claim this is a fun game. I liked the caged birds, that was a nice innovation if a little overused, but other than that there isn't much good to say about it. They even managed to make the damned thing sexist .

    I don't understand why the big game producers insist on making bad interactive "mash x to continue" movies instead of fun and interesting games.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Moyer View Post
    Anyway, it's better than Deadly Shadows so whatever.
    DS isn't the best game in the series in my opinion but I think it was a lot better than Thi4f.

  9. #109
    Member
    Registered: May 2013
    Location: New Zealand
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Moyer View Post
    A reboot of an old series that no one really cares about anymore, outside of a bunch of 40 year olds who have been living in the past for half their lives (I'm not excluding myself here)? Can someone point to a trailer that said "THE RETURN OF MASTER THIEF GARRETT!!!" or made any references whatsoever to the original trilogy? I still find it amazing that they used the original games as a kind of 'old history' when there was no reason to outside of making a few of us smile appreciatively.

    Anyway, it's better than Deadly Shadows so whatever.
    Excuse me, but I'll have you know that I'm in my early 20s and only discovered the original Thief trilogy fairly recently around a year ago, but I'm still enjoying them regardless(not like I can say the same for that atrocious reboot). And honestly, you have to be delusional to consider the Thief reboot better than Deadly Shadows, as DS has much better writing(on top of retaining the general feeling and unique atmosphere that the first two Thief games did so well, while the reboot on the other hand, did not.) Sure, Deadly Shadows was dumbed down in order to work around the original Xbox console limitations, but that doesn't make it any less of a good game as the Dark Project and the Metal Age are.

    But the Thief reboot on the other hand? Oh boy, where do I begin?
    -They essentially devolved Garrett into Batman, in terms of personality. Hell, I don't believe I can remember a single character from the reboot that was even remotely interesting in the slightest.
    -It copied more content from other stealth games of the past decade, rather than the original trilogy that it just so happens to share a title with. And no, the shallow references and recreations of some of the original levels(ex: Bank Heist and Moira Asylum) don't count.
    -The general gameplay felt even more dumbed down than Deadly Shadows was. I mean, for goodness sake. Garrett can't even jump at will anymore!
    -Extreme lack of supernatural elements or any of the original trilogy's charm.
    -No sound propagation engine(which I will remind you, was one of the many hallmarks of the original Thief trilogy.)
    -The story sounded and felt like it was written by immature 12 year olds who fail to understand the subtleties of storytelling, rather than fully-grown 30+ year old adults. Not to mention, the ending was crap and anti-climatic.
    -It was a poorly-optimized mess, with glitches abound that they're still desperately trying to patch up at this very moment.
    -Where's the vine arrow? Noisemaker arrow? Moss arrow? Oil flasks? Holy water? Gas mines/bombs? Or even a simple thing like a dagger/sword to defend myself with, if the need applies? You know. The kind of items available that made Thief what it was originally?

    So, don't go and point the finger at the apparently 40 year old folks who are the only ones disappointed by the poor quality of the reboot, as even young people like me who haven't been interested in the series for that long, are also frankly disgusted by what Eidos Montreal and Square-Enix have done to the franchise that we all enjoy so much. We stated our concerns and wishes in a more or less mature manner towards them during development and they preferred to shoot themselves in the foot in pursuit of mass market appeal anyway, rather than listen to their own fanbase who clearly knew more about the IP, than they seem to. And now look where that's got them.

    But then again, I wouldn't expect an incompetent ageist imbecile like you to understand, when you sound like the kind of guy who would prefer to play any kind of generic garbage thrown their way over something that is refreshing and actually god forbid, tries something different for a change

    Either way, enjoy your shallow shell of a game that will most likely never get a sequel. Hope it was worth it. Good day

  10. #110
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2010
    Location: Le Havre (France, 76)
    SPOILERS

    I don't think the story is immature, but i think that the scenarist had scattered in several intrigues, that is explain the lack of consistency of the story: there are many intersiting things but very underdeveloped. The lack of surnatural is explained by the Last Glyph. If I understand well, the magical world of Thief is very link to the glyphs (same if the authors and scenarists of Thief does not clarify realy that, but i think that this speculation is coherent), so the great part of the magic disappeared with glyphs in the end of Thief 3. Many centuries after the original trilogy of Thief, the civilization seem to have declined (the humanoid bots are new things in Thief 4 while it was created by the Mechanists long time before and it was forgotten), but there still the main matrix of the glyphs, the Primal (the book for the ritual is in the ruined complexe of the Keepers), but which the power is sleep. The Baron Northcrest thing that the power (magical and/or technological) of the ancient people of the City was linked to the Primal (via the glyphs) and he want to use this.
    Last edited by Le MAlin 76; 25th Nov 2014 at 10:57.

  11. #111
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: The Plateaux Of Mirror
    tldr; Something about immaturity followed by "enjoy your shallow shell of a game". TTLG, never change.

  12. #112
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Vertigo, DragonSand, Xeen
    Quote Originally Posted by Ceamonks890 View Post
    -They essentially devolved Garrett into Batman, in terms of personality. Hell, I don't believe I can remember a single character from the reboot that was even remotely interesting in the slightest.

    -It copied more content from other stealth games of the past decade, rather than the original trilogy that it just so happens to share a title with. And no, the shallow references and recreations of some of the original levels(ex: Bank Heist and Moira Asylum) don't count.

    -The general gameplay felt even more dumbed down than Deadly Shadows was. I mean, for goodness sake. Garrett can't even jump at will anymore!

    -Extreme lack of supernatural elements or any of the original trilogy's charm.

    -No sound propagation engine(which I will remind you, was one of the many hallmarks of the original Thief trilogy.)

    -The story sounded and felt like it was written by immature 12 year olds who fail to understand the subtleties of storytelling, rather than fully-grown 30+ year old adults. Not to mention, the ending was crap and anti-climatic.

    -It was a poorly-optimized mess, with glitches abound that they're still desperately trying to patch up at this very moment.

    -Where's the vine arrow? Noisemaker arrow? Moss arrow? Oil flasks? Holy water? Gas mines/bombs? Or even a simple thing like a dagger/sword to defend myself with, if the need applies? You know. The kind of items available that made Thief what it was originally?
    +1

  13. #113
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2005
    Location: Wisconsin
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldmoon Dawn View Post
    +1
    -1

  14. #114
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2002
    Location: Edmonton
    Quote Originally Posted by Ceamonks890 View Post
    -The story sounded and felt like it was written by immature 12 year olds who fail to understand the subtleties of storytelling, rather than fully-grown 30+ year old adults.
    No, it sounded like it was written by competent writers who didn't have a strong director to tie everything together. The writing on a micro level in new-Thief is, I would argue, of higher quality than DS. Literally every note in DS existed only to direct the player toward an objective, while a significant portion of the text in new Thief existed purely for flavor. The flavour text certainly demonstrates an attempt at world-building, but the story was let down by a lack of cohesion. Bad story planning, yes. Bad writing, no. As for the dialogue itself, it was fine in and of itself, but was compromised by the lack of cohesion.

  15. #115
    New Member
    Registered: Mar 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Aja View Post
    As for the dialogue itself, it was fine in and of itself, but was compromised by the lack of cohesion.
    The dialogue is just as embarrassing as the rest of the game, you'd think it was written by fourteen year old boys if you didn't know better. Example: Thief Funny Dialog 001 (sic).

  16. #116
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    "Garrett, I'm slipping! Give me the claw!"

  17. #117
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    On my 4th play through...love it. Nowhere near as good as T1 or T2, but IMO it's way better than TS

  18. #118
    I ran into this review recently - don't remember reading it before, but I thought it was a great summary of everything thing that is wrong with Thiaf.

    http://kotaku.com/thief-the-kotaku-review-1529393950

  19. #119
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Vertigo, DragonSand, Xeen
    Quote Originally Posted by Brethren's link
    Immersive sims like the original Thief games have historically consisted of complex levels that, at their best, operate like great whirring mechanisms. The stealthy player exists at the periphery, and without his or her interference, the machine simply continues to spin and grind. It's up to the player to decide how to poke and prod at the machine, or whether to slip through the gears so expertly that the mechanism never even registers an outside presence.
    Some of that classic old elite game design at its finest.


  20. #120
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: The Plateaux Of Mirror
    I wish that Kotaku article were penned by Grayson, because I'd take his criticisms seriously whether I agreed with them or not. Most of the problems discussed there are present in games that he praises in the very same article. I had to stop reading when he complained about the map (which I agree is awful) and then immediately referenced Far Cry 3 as a game that did improvisation better. Not because of anything wrong with what he was saying (there are obviously 2 separate points being made), just the pure cognitive dissonance of seeing someone complain about a map in a game then immediately praising FC3 for something else, a game with the worst map ever designed.

    Ok I lie, I kept reading. This bit makes next to no sense: "There at the beginning, I felt like I was catching sight of what Thief should have been—a first-person Assassin's Creed-meets-Mirror's Edge stealth game". Assassin's Creed-meets-Mirror's Edge? Two games that handle parkour in precisely polar opposite ways? A game designed around "hold space to have the game continuously play itself for you" vs a game designed with freedom of movement and immersion. I'm not sure I can imagine how that would work. I would definitely love a stealth game with ME's movement system (or a combination of ME and Dishonored, woo), although I'm not really sure why parkour should be in a Thief game to begin with (and that was maybe the worst thing EM tried to shoehorn into the game).

  21. #121
    NewDark 64 Contest Winner
    Registered: Jul 2005
    Location: Locked Inside Dromed
    How is Kotaku giving the original Thief games praise? What mystical realm have I stepped into? Those original games represent everything they hate in games. Note how the only time in that article they really praise the new Thief is when the game is automated and all you do is hold down the run button to automatically move along and the game does all the jumping and dodging for you. That's the "good game" they wanted. Normally if Kotaku hates it, that's a sign of a very decent game, so you know something is messed up if they're also dissing this corridor-walkahead version of Thief. Probably the bribe payment was paid late.

  22. #122
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: The Plateaux Of Mirror
    I find their sudden praise of Mirror's Edge as shocking as their sudden praise for the original Thief games.

    Also this line makes me wonder if his copy of the game was broken or something: "The City's rooftops never feel that open again" Um, no matter how you feel about the openness of the city (and I certainly found plenty of alternate ways to move between areas in the main hub), the prologue is LITERALLY "push forward to get to the next tutorial thing".

    Also "Thief rejects variety" But Far Cry 3 is bestest game evar! And every guard is either armed with a sword or a crossbow! Why aren't there guards with flamethrowers or molotovs or LMG's?

    What a weird article. Even if I agreed with the sentiment I think I'd be scratching my head over most of it. He's basically hating the game for the exact opposite reasons that some people here do.

  23. #123
    I think you're picking apart little specific pieces of the article, and focusing too much on them. The version I read criticized a ton of things that have been criticized here as well:

    Fragmented, incoherent levels (and hub)
    Excessive loading screens
    Lack of free movement
    Designated rope points
    Points of no return
    Shitty map
    Numerous audio issues
    Oversimplified controls
    Lack of AI variety
    Poor narrative

    Yeah, the Assassin's Creed/Mirror's Edge/Prologue comment threw me a bit too, but as I've never played an AC game, I just dismissed it. But it was really only two sentences of the entire review, and never referenced again, so no big deal.

  24. #124
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Brethren View Post
    I ran into this review recently - don't remember reading it before, but I thought it was a great summary of everything thing that is wrong with Thiaf.

    http://kotaku.com/thief-the-kotaku-review-1529393950
    You probably just forgot or blacked it out after playing the game:
    http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post2237244
    http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post2237530

  25. #125
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: The Plateaux Of Mirror
    Quote Originally Posted by Brethren View Post
    as I've never played an AC game, I just dismissed it
    You really should, not because they're good (I sort of enjoyed the first two, I guess, for the historical references and cooky backstory) but because the absolute worst parts of Thief imo were lifted nearly wholesale from the AC games, and this guy seems to want Thief to be even more like AC. I don't think there's anything I find less appealing than the formula Ubisoft is using to design their games now.

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