Help a noob.

[Gryzemuis]

[Reserved for a summary of the answers].

[Gryzemuis]

I'm going to play Dark Souls 2.

On PC (i5-3570k + gtx680). Using joystick+trackball. (Because I've been using that for 15 years now. I doubt I can get used to a gamepad).

I've read that the gameplay is unforgiving. But at a first glance, it's already a challenge to set up the game properly. I enjoy challenging gameplay. I don't enjoy random things holding me back. Things that are easily fixable, but if you don't know about them, you make your life harder. I've read a bit about DS and DS2 in the past. But that does not seem to be enough.

Maybe one of you can help me get started ?
I'll write a summary of answers in the first post.
I'll keep adding questions as I go along.

First questions:

1) Dark Souls 1 is improved by installing one or more fixes. DSfix, DSmousefix. Does Dark Souls 2 need those improvements too ? Do such tools even exist ? Or does the stock-game have proper resolution, proper mouse handling, etc ?

2) Graphical enhancements. I've downloaded SweetFX with a preset made by someone else. It makes the game look better. Sharper textures. Less washed out lightning. Are there more graphical enhancements, like texture packs, etc ?

3) What is the best resource for Dark Souls 2 ? A wiki ? Which wiki ? I found darksouls2.wiki.fextralife.com and http://darksouls2.wikidot.com. Are there more resources ? Which one is the best ?

4) At the start of the game you go into a hut with some "old ladies". And then you get to Majula. Is there anything before the hut that I need to find and pick up ? Between the hut and Majula there are a number of "foggy doors". Should I go into all of those ? Is there anything I need to pick up from there ? (I've heard about some ring that give more health when hollow. Sounds like it makes life harder for a noob if you don't pick it up early).

5) I'd like to play dual-wielding swords. But it seems I die a lot. A shield might be nice. What class do I pick ? When I pick a warrior, does that mean I stick with sword+board forever ? Can I switch weapon-types half-way the game ?

6) I remember somewhere that the physics of DS2 are tied to your framerate. With a framerate of 60, some stuff becomes harder than when you play at a framerate of 30. Is that true ? Should I worry about it ?

TIA.

[Renzatic]

1. As far as I know, the only problem with using a KB/M (or joystick and trackball) setup with DS2 was the button input lag, which may have already been patched out by now. If not, I think you can use something like Autohotkey to get around it.

I play DS2 on the PS3, so I'm not the best person to ask about this.

2. Oh, there are tons. As for SweetFX/ENB mods, the one most people tend to swear by is WickfutENB which allegedly makes the game look more like the alpha, before From scaled back the atmospherics for performance reasons. At the very least, it looks like it'll make torches a necessity.

3. Well, you've got the same one posted twice there, but it's one half of the grand DS wiki duo, with the other being DS2 Wikidot. As for which is better, well...both seem pretty good to me.

Though I deeply recommend you don't use them until you've finished your first playthrough. The DS games are best experienced going in blind, not knowing what's around the next corner, or what things, good and bad, you'll find in those dark, scary catacombs.

4. There's nothing absolutely necessary in Things Betwixt, but there are a few cool items to find if you look around hard enough.

Foggy doors usually lead to boss fights, though there are a few thrown about in random locations that don't lead to anything except more places to explore. I'm pretty sure this was done solely to fuck with people.

And that ring you're talking about is the Ring of Binding, which you can find in Heide's Tower of Flame, just off from Majula.

5. Classes only determine what base stats and weapons you start out with. Beyond that, the game is almost entirely classless. If you want to play a spellcaster, you dump points into attunement, faith and/or intelligence, depending on the type of magic you want to use. Slow tanky fighter? Strength, Vitality, Endurance, and Vigor in that order, with a few points thrown into dex for flavor. Quick, agile fighter, same as before, but switch Dex for Str, and use lightweight armors. Occasionally throw a few points into Adaptability for overall goodness.

And no, you're not stuck with anything. You can start out as a knight, and end up a Hex based spellcaster. Also, somewhere during the middle point of the game, you'll run across your first Soul Vessel, which you can take to the snarky old ladies in Things Betwixt to reassign all the points you've spent.

6. I hear that playing at 60FPS causes your equipment to wear a good deal faster, which I can imagine will be a pain in the ass, since From made it so your stuff degrades so much faster than it does in DS1. Like the mouse input lag, this might've already been patched out.

Oh, and GET GUD!

[Gryzemuis]

The other wiki I had found was indeed the wikidot one. (Cut&paste error). Sorry.

I don't plan on using the wikis for walk-throughs. But it seems there are a zillion game-mechanics which are not explained at all, and you need to figure them out yourself. I'm not sure I want to test how the damage-type and resists work. I rather just read that. I want to be surprised by the story, the adventures, the locations. Not by the fact that I'm using the wrong axe against the wrong enemy.

I'll check out WickfutENB. But tbh, I don't enjoy graphical mods that make everything extremely dark. I always play with pretty low brightness/gamma anyway. But I prefer some range of contrast, and not just light or pitch-black. Skyrim ENBs seemed to be like that often. Probably because the authors couldn't get their settings to do proper contrast, so they just say that the extreme darkness is intentional.

Thanks for the answers.
It seems the wikis have a lot more information than they had half a year ago, when I last looked at them. I might be able to find most of the answers to my questions. Although both of them seem to lack a lot of pc-specific information.

[Malleus]

1. As far as I know, the only problem with using a KB/M (or joystick and trackball) setup with DS2 was the button input lag, which may have already been patched out by now. If not, I think you can use something like Autohotkey to get around it.

There is an option now to disable double click in the menu, which fixes that. I play without autohotkey ever since this was patched it. However, the option is bugged, and you have to re-set it every time you launch the game.

As for the wikis, if you ask me, fextralife is trash, use the wikidot one.

Is there anything before the hut that I need to find and pick up ? Between the hut and Majula there are a number of "foggy doors". Should I go into all of those ? Is there anything I need to pick up from there ?

Always explore everything and go in everywhere. And pick up everything. You might die, but what the hell, it's not like that won't happen otherwise.

And don't worry about the FPS issues, just play the game. The PC version runs at 60 fps, there's no "when you play at 30".

[Renzatic]

You're about dead on when it comes to most graphics mods making things too dark, but in DS2's case, it being darker would be more true to its intended look and feel. If you watch any of the prerelease vides, like...

this one. Damn, I forgot how much better the game looked back then...

...you'll see it's a lot more dramatically lit than the washed out, way too much ambient light look we ended up getting. There was far more contrast. The lights were lighter, more saturated, the darks much darker, and torches were meant to be a bigger necessity than what they ended up being. There are a few places in the game where you can tell the changes to lighting were a last minute rush to get the game running smoothly on the consoles.

Here, a graphic mod that tries to replicate that dark look would probably be truer to the original vision. I could also imagine it making some places a helluva lot more interesting, both in look and gameplay.

And you're also right about the game not telling you everything about its basic gameplay mechanics. Like you wouldn't know right away that your strength number is a rating for each arm. A weapon that requires 50 strength can be two-handed, and used perfectly by a character with just 25 strength.

Oh, and two-handing? It doesn't tell you that if you're dual wielding, holding down the switch button (whatever it is in the PC version, it's triangle on the PS3, and Y on the 360) will allow you to two-hand your left handed weapon. Or if you're dual wielding two weapons of the same category (like two longswords, maces, whips or greatwords), holding down the switch button will cause your character to change attack styles, meaning instead of using your right handed buttons to swing the weapon in your right hand, or your left handed buttons to swing your left handed weapon, you use one button to swing both at the same time.

Not telling you about the basics is one of DS' more annoying traditions. It leaves pretty much everything for you to figure out.

[Aja]

You're about dead on when it comes to most graphics mods making things too dark, but in DS2's case, it being darker would be more true to its intended look and feel. If you watch any of the prerelease vides, like...

this one. Damn, I forgot how much better the game looked back then...

Ah, I disagree. Dark Souls 2 might be a little too flat-looking overall, but cranking the contrast to Instagram levels doesn't make it look better to me.

Anyway, as for wikis, I frequently had both of the ones the OP listed open simultaneously. A lot of the time you're only getting someone's personal opinion, which can make it interesting, but I found it useful to have more than one source. And, of course, I agree about going in blind for the first run at least as far as strategies and lore are concerned.

[Gryzemuis]

Just messed around a bit in Things Betwixt for a while.
So far, the game is more frustrating than fun.

Not that it is frustrating because it's hard. It's frustrating because of the artificial levels of clumsiness. Example: when running, you turn your camera, sudden "direction w" is another direction. Who comes up with this shit ?

In Things Betwixt there is a ladder you are supposed to kick for a shortcut. I saw the option pop up for a second, but then decided to climb down. Now I don't seem to be able to get the option to kick the ladder. Is that intentional ? Do you only get the option the first time you encounter it ? Are other things in DS2 like that ? This is the clumsiness that I mean: I know what I want to do, but the game just doesn't let me.

Kicked a tree. Killed a mob. Now I am supposed to jump down into a hole, and fight a mob that is waiting for me down there. Tried it several times, but I am already dead when I hit the ground. Maybe once or twice I had a sliver of health left, but the mob finished me with one hit. I don't have a ranged weapon, so I can't shoot it from above. Am I mistaken that I don't have any spells yet ?

The game looks nice. The atmosphere is great. But if game-mechanics stay this clumsy, I'm not sure what I'll do. How much effort would it have been to actually make the controls fluid and obvious ?

It turned out I had a shield in my inventory. Approach a mob, block, then hit back once or twice. That's a lot easier than dual-wielding. I guess it'll be sword+board for me.

Am I right that the only way to recover health is:
1) sit at a bonfire (and let all mobs respawn).
2) take a sip from an Estus flask. I believe I get that in the next area ? They are refillable (by sitting at a bonfire, which makes all mobs respawn ? Fuck).
3) use a life-gem ? I believe life-gems are one-time use. If they are not found everywhere, they will be kinda useless in the grand scheme of things.

This basic info about health isn't even in the wikis.

[Renzatic]

I've never had any problems with the camera suddenly causing the controls to go all goofy, but it is always based upon the direction of the camera, rather than the character itself, and then it only changes things around when you're not pressing the controls. Like if you rotate the camera around as you're running forward, it'll cause the character to turn with the camera itself, so your back is always facing the screen Do the same so the cam is facing your character, but you're standing still, pressing up won't make him run towards the camera, but rather do a quick turn around and run in the direction you're pressing.

It's all pretty standard stuff, and the only reason why I'd imagine you're having trouble with it is that either the game isn't responding well to something in your control scheme, like your trackball, or you haven't played many third person action games, and aren't used to the style.

Because if there is one thing Dark Souls isn't, it's clumsy. I've played through all three in the series, and I've never once felt I died because the controls were fighting against me.

And falling down that hole? It's been a bit since I've played through the tutorial, but I don't remember it taking off more than a 3rd to half of your life. Provided you haven't had the crap beat out of you getting there, you should have more than enough health to win that battle.

Okay, did a quick search, and found a video of the hole scene, which you can watch here. The best thing to do is not panic and try to heal the moment you're down there, which I think is the whole point of that part of the tutorial. Roll down there so you're not near the guy, kill him, then use a life gem as you're climbing the ladder.

The ladder? You should just be able to hit the use button, and watch it fall right down. The only thing I can figure is that maybe you're not standing near enough to it.

Lastly, the way healing works:

Estus Flasks are your quickest way to restore health, but DS2 starts you with a very limited amount. When you first get it, you only have one swig before it's emptied, which means you spend a good deal of the earlier part of the game relying on...

Life Gems, which drop fairly often, and can be bought easily enough. You can even find a merchant that sells an unlimited amount pretty early in the game (which reminds me, always exhaust the dialog of every NPC you meet). The only downside to them is that using them leaves you vulnerable for a little longer than the Estus Flask, and they heal slowly over time, rather than giving you a near instantaneous refill. You can use a bunch of them to speed up the healing process though.

Spells. If you go with a faith based caster using miracles, you get access to a few healing spells. I've gone through both DS games without ever once using one of these, but I believe they're near instant heals like the estus flask, with the downside being that they leave you vulnerable longer while using them.

Plus, there are some weapons, items, and spells will siphon off enemy health to heal you, though they only do it in relatively small amounts. Not enough to heal you completely, but they can help.

I think the biggest thing is that the game doesn't hold your hand at all, and you're not really used to it yet. It's a deadly combination, so expect to die a lot during your first couple of hours.

A little rain must fall before you GET GUD!

[Phatose]

Another way to restore your life is to be summoned to another world as a shade and last until you're returned to your own world. Gives you back your humanity as well, and if I recall right, refills your health to full and refills your estus flask to full. Additionally, while you're in someone else's world, enemies will only ever drop life gems, so it's a workable approach to rebuilding gem stocks if you run out.

Tossing down the small summon sign saved my ass more times then I care to admit. Use the small one unless you're boss hunting - you don't have to stay until the boss if you use it, sufficient time or kills will count as a victory, plus it's actually visible to a larger range of player soul memories, so there are more people who can summon you.

[Renzatic]

Forgot about that. Plus, having someone rate a message you left will refill your health.

[faetal]

I'll say one thing - before playing Dark Souls, I could never get used to gamepads. Dark Souls changed that for me and I'm now fairly good with them. If you know anyone who owns an XBOX 360 pad, borrow it and give it a try for a few hours. You might never look back.

[Twist]

I second faetal.

After years of being a stubbornly righteous KB&M player (and stubbornly opposed to 3D games with 3rd person cameras/controls, but that's another discussion), Dark Souls changed how I view gamepads.

Now I'm impressed by the versatility, elegance and efficiency with which the gamepad can be used when controls are designed and implemented by a strong game developer. Before I committed to the Xbox 360 gamepad, I spent a few hours searching for fixes, tweaking my settings and practicing KB&M controls with Dark Souls. Yet it still felt remarkably freeing to switch to the gamepad.

I definitely experienced a learning curve: It's beyond comical the number of times I jumped backwards off a cliff to my death when I just meant to swing my sword (I'm not kidding). But the last time I regularly used a gamepad was the early nineties with the Super Nintendo.

[twisty]

Just messed around a bit in Things Betwixt for a while.
So far, the game is more frustrating than fun.

Not that it is frustrating because it's hard. It's frustrating because of the artificial levels of clumsiness. Example: when running, you turn your camera, sudden "direction w" is another direction. Who comes up with this shit ?

That sounds exactly like my experience with Dark Souls when I first played it. Having received so many recommendations in GG to play DS in response to a "recommend me an RPG" thread I created, it took me some time to work out what all the fuss was about. After trying in vain to play using K&M I reluctantly went out and purchased a cheap generic controller only to have to spend an entire afternoon configuring the thing. Despite mapping the keys appropriately the game continued to feel clunky and was just too frustrating for me to bother with. Eventually after putting the game away for a couple of months (or weeks -- can't remember) I purchased a Logitech F310 and it was amazing how differently the game started to play. There was still a steep learning curve however this was more a product of the subtle complexities in the gameplay than managing frustrating controller issues.

I also endorse the opinion that you only use wiki's as a final resort on your first playthrough. Treat it like how you probably had to learn how to play Thief back in the day -- getting good at the game took time, and a great deal of the magic of the experience came as a result of trial and error, exploration and trying to piece together the game's mysteries in conjunction with your own imagination.

My problem now is that I can never seem to stop playing it. Although I haven't had a chance to play the final DLC for more than a couple of hours yet, I've made a pact with myself that after I finish it I will put the series to bed for a while and get back to all the other titles in my collection.

[Gryzemuis]

I will not play with a controller. I've played GTAV on an XBox for a few hours. And I didn't like it. I've played many many FPS games, RPG games and MMOs with my current setup. Trackball and joystick. My joystick (a CH Products Fighterstick USB) is highly programmable. Not only map buttons to keypresses or macros. But you can program the behaviour with its own programming language. I once programmed it do to Unreal-Tournament style dodging with just one button press.

But it seems it's not enough for Dark Souls. Maybe if I can get the x-axis and y-axis to work for movement, I can move "analog" in DS2. In several games I can program the "run-key" or "sneak-key" into the movement. But DS2 doesn't use a "run while pressed" key, no, they use a toggle-run key. Which makes it a lot more tricky. It seems these guys have made every bad choice when it comes to the control scheme.

I map my 20 joystick buttons to keyboard-presses. No problem. With the pinky-button as shift-button, I was used to using 38 (2 x (20 - 1)) different abilities while playing World of Warcraft. But in DS2 the game uses a whole different alphabet for its keys. I need to remember ability = A = actually Q = a button on my joystick. Why why why ? It is pure disdain towards their own customers. I paid them money for their game. I'm not sure I want to bend over more, and buy and use a controller.

I'll try a few more times in the coming week. I hope I can overcome the antipathy that DS2's controls bring. The game does look awesome in so many respects. I don't mind hard games. I've killed most heroic bosses in World of Warcraft. Those fights sometimes take several nights to learn with a group of 10 or 25 players. Per boss. Wiping over and over again. But then, in WoW I feel I have full control over what my character does.

[Malleus]

If you already have muscle memory for your control setup, you'll get used to DS2 in no time. It was like that for me with KB+M. You'll have to learn which xbox button is which on your device(s), but that's it. Remember, these guys are console developers, and are pretty clueless about PC things.

[faetal]

Not kidding GM - I used to be every bit as fuck controllers and the horse they rode in on as you. I was ok right up until the PS2 when they started coming with analog sticks at which point I very much declared that they could fuck themselves and I'd never use one. Then Dark Souls came along and was so good and yet so hard to control with mouse and KB that I gave in. I still use mouse & KB > 95% of the time, even for stuff like Assassin's Creed, which I'm told is insanity, but for Dark Souls, I'm glad I made the plunge. Not only because of the better controls either, I also like that I can sit back and just look at the screen - actually makes me feel more immersed in the game.

[Renzatic]

Run and sneak is a toggle when you're using a KB/M setup? Damn, man. That's terrible. Get a gamepad. Save yourself the pain.

I know. It sucks feeling like you're forced to use a control scheme you're not used to, but they're nice things to have around, and as Twist, Twisty, and Faetal have said, the DS games are worth the learning curve. On top of that, you'll have an extra controller option available to you when you're done.

Playing DS with a KB/M (or your case, a JS/TB) is kinda like playing a first person shooter with a gamepad. Yeah, it can be done. As you can see, many people have tried it. But it's far from optimal, and won't give you the best experience. The moment you pick one up and play DS with it, you'll instantly be able to tell it's what the game was designed around.

[Twist]

I really mean it when I say I was a stubbornly righteous KB&M user. And I was for well over a decade. I've played a wide variety of games with my keyboard and mouse and I was a highly competitive Q3A and UT player in the late nineties and early aughts. I still wouldn't touch a first-person game with a gamepad.

But humbly realizing how stubborn and insular I was being has allowed me to savor Dark Souls, which is truly an extraordinary experience.

But it seems it's not enough for Dark Souls. Maybe if I can get the x-axis and y-axis to work for movement, I can move "analog" in DS2. In several games I can program the "run-key" or "sneak-key" into the movement. But DS2 doesn't use a "run while pressed" key, no, they use a toggle-run key. Which makes it a lot more tricky. It seems these guys have made every bad choice when it comes to the control scheme.

I map my 20 joystick buttons to keyboard-presses. No problem. With the pinky-button as shift-button, I was used to using 38 (2 x (20 - 1)) different abilities while playing World of Warcraft. But in DS2 the game uses a whole different alphabet for its keys. I need to remember ability = A = actually Q = a button on my joystick. Why why why ? It is pure disdain towards their own customers. I paid them money for their game. I'm not sure I want to bend over more, and buy and use a controller.

Honestly, man, I read the paragraphs I quoted here, and I see this:

I have a delicious meal on the plate in front of me, with fork and knife neatly placed beside the plate. I just have to figure out how to eat this stuff. So I took my shoes and socks off, held the fork between my toes, then balanced the knife between the fork's prongs. Then I folded my napkin over the knife and carefully lowered the knife to dip a corner of the napkin into the gravy.

Why would the restaurant present a meal like this? The meal looks like it might be delicious, but I'm really having a hard time eating it. I think my setup might work with a few tweaks, but right now I'm not able to get much more than the spare juices absorbed into my napkin.

Edit: I just wanted to clarify... I'm not trying to be insulting here. I'm not a caustic, mean-spirited guy. This is just meant as a playful poke and a wink.

I'm just trying to say that I understand where you're coming from, but if you can get over your bias and preconceived notions, and play the game the way it was designed to be played, I think you'll be surprised... and rewarded with a deliciously rare gaming experience.

[Malleus]

Run and sneak is a toggle when you're using a KB/M setup?

No. Walk is a hold function, running is done by holding down jump, like with a controller. You do have an option to toggle these (with separate buttons).

Besides it's weird everyone bringing up DS as the controller game. I played MGS3 and SCDA on the PS2 and had little trouble with the controller outside of parts where you have to aim quickly and precisely. I even tried Metal Gear Rising with my shitty PC controller and I could play it okay (and it is a shitty controller). But Dark Souls, man? I could barely do basic stuff. I had a hard time not falling off ledges and beating the hollows in the Burg.

[Twist]

Malleus: From browsing that huge Dark Souls thread, I gathered you not only play Dark Souls with KB/M, but you play it rather well. But from all the discussions in that thread and on this forum, you've gotta realize you're not the norm.

Most people -- even several people who've never liked gamepads -- find Dark Souls to play and feel far more natural with an appropriate gamepad. By not using a gamepad, most people -- perhaps not all -- will find learning the game to be an even steeper uphill slog than it already is. It's pretty apparent the game was designed from the ground up with a gamepad in mind.

[Malleus]

Well, yeah. I'd hate to see someone give up on the game, because they don't like (or don't want to spend money on) controllers AND think there's no other reasonable solution though.

[Phatose]

Well, he wasn't the only one who managed DS1 with a KB/M. I played it on PS3 first, and actually did better with the KB/M on PC once I adjusted - and that despite DS1 KB support being not merely poor, but massively fucked in ways that boggle the imagination. DS2...is marginally better, after the last patch, if you don't mind resetting a setting every launch.

There is a payoff for dealing with the hassle, since camera control is faster and easier, and situational awareness is really important in this game.

That said, I'm also better at Batman: AA with a KB/M then gamepad, so I'm pretty far from the norm here. And I've got a mouse with 6 extra buttons, and without that I couldn't have used kb/m.

But there is no arguing that the vast majority of people who play the game swear by a gamepad for it.

[Renzatic]

I can play 3rd person games just as well with a KB/M as I can a gamepad, though I tend to prefer the latter because I can lean back and kick my feet up while playing.

But DS' setup is so specific and logical with a gamepad, with the shoulder buttons being the major thing that makes it work so well. I couldn't imagine a keyboard setup that'd work quite as well as having all your attacks, blocks, and spell casting, mixed, matched, and controlled with your left and right index and middle fingers. I guess setting it up Q-1 for your left handed weapon/shield/casting medium, and E-3 for your right handed stuff would be the closest analog, but that doesn't seem like it'd be as comfortable.

[Phatose]

Having two extra thumb buttons on the mouse helps a lot with that.