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Thread: Ladders suck!

  1. #1
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2004
    Location: UK

    Ladders suck!

    I have just got this game, and I am really enjoying it (the SS2 heritage is very apparent), but ladders really annoy. They seem to be the most dangerous things in the game. Going up them is risky, and I sometimes shoot off the end, and fall back to the bottom, but going down, well I might as well just jump and accept I will break my legs.

  2. #2
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Heheh, yeah, Deus Ex ladders are death traps if you're not careful and don't understand how they work. (Same was true for System Shock 2, in my experience.) It's really just a narrow volume of space in which you can move in any direction - generally you want to face the ladder when you're moving or you'll almost invariably fall out of that area. The trick to getting onto a ladder from the top is to back out over it, then go down by looking down and moving forward. If you fall off backing up, just hit forward and you can grab onto it.

  3. #3
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2008
    Ladders are always the trickiest things to do right in FPS games. I recommend always facing straight at the ladder while using it, or you will move to one side and fall off. This was one of the things Thief: Deadly Shadows did correctly IMO.

    The biggest problem I had with DX ladders was getting to the top and not being able to stand on the ledge fully.

  4. #4
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by lost_soul View Post
    Ladders are always the trickiest things to do right in FPS games.
    I liked F.E.A.R.'s solution: the ladders are grabbable objects.

  5. #5
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2008
    It always makes me laugh when playing some games where I can be climbing a ladder and aiming/firing in the opposite direction. I think Quake 2 allowed that.

  6. #6
    ZylonBane
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: ZylonBane
    Quote Originally Posted by lost_soul View Post
    This was one of the things Thief: Deadly Shadows did correctly IMO.
    Deadly Shadows had the absolute worst ladders I have ever encountered in a game. They took all normal control away from the player and locked them into a dumbed-down console-friendly hamster-ball "ladder mode", from which you could only escape by allowing yourself to be spit out the top or bottom of the ladder, or feebly throwing yourself off.

  7. #7
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Vienna, Austria
    ladder as usable object with locked animations: no thank you, I'd rather fall off. It's the most jarring and stupid thing to switch to another perspective as well during this - example: Chronicles of Riddick

  8. #8
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by mothra View Post
    ...I'd rather fall off.
    Have a nice flight. I think fiddling around with ladders is a big waste of time in what ought to be a simple and easily accomplished movement.

  9. #9
    ZylonBane
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: ZylonBane
    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrian View Post
    Have a nice flight. I think fiddling around with ladders is a big waste of time in what ought to be a simple and easily accomplished movement.
    It is easy and simple... if you don't suck at it.

  10. #10
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Even if that were true - and it's horseshit, Deus Ex and System Shock 2 ladders are death traps to descend if you're not slow and careful - navigating a ladder should not be a skill challenge in the first place.

  11. #11
    Moderator
    Registered: Mar 2000
    Location: submarine seamounts or islands
    Yes well you try descending a ladder at 10mph with an assault rifle held in both hands and let us know how you get on

  12. #12
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2004
    Or maybe you should just get better at the ladder.

    Being able to jump aug and catch the handles mid-ladder beats the crap out of having to push E at the bottom to "interact" with it.

  13. #13
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Qantas
    All that's really needed is some tweaking to make it easier to back onto the top of a ladder, because that's where 90% of people fail.

  14. #14
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by D'Juhn Keep View Post
    Yes well you try descending a ladder at 10mph with an assault rifle held in both hands and let us know how you get on
    In F.E.A.R., you stow your weapon to use the ladder; that's what shoulder straps are for. Speed is not a problem.

    Or maybe you should just get better at the ladder.
    I've played these games a lot. I can do it consistently, now, although I have to be slow about it, much more so than I would in real life in a hurry. It's just stupid, and, as I said above, it shouldn't be a skill challenge in the first place.

    Being able to jump aug and catch the handles mid-ladder beats the crap out of having to push E at the bottom to "interact" with it.
    It's the top of the ladder that causes problems. I wouldn't have an issue with having to frob the ladder midway if you grab onto it with a big leap. It would make that maneuver slightly more difficult, which I don't particularly disagree with. (Massive leap grabbing onto something is more appropriately challenging than using a normal ladder in a normal manner.)

    All that's really needed is some tweaking to make it easier to back onto the top of a ladder, because that's where 90% of people fail.
    That would probably be sufficient, yes, although some of the efforts I've seen in that regard are just as finicky (Dark Messiah).

  15. #15
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2007
    Location: Sydney, Australia
    I liked STALKER's ladders - they were easy to use and not too restrictive. I find the HL style of ladder quite ridiculous, even if they are flexible, quick and simple to use. Ladders in real life aren't quick or flexible, though they're pretty simple.

  16. #16
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2008
    For what it's worth, the way the unreal engine (and DX) handles ladders is to constantly trace out from your location, in the direction of your viewrotation, about a foot in front of you. If it hits geometry, and that geometry is texflagged as "ladder", BAM: you're on a ladder. If you're falling, the trace distance is doubled (I guess to simulated JC flailing wildly for anything to stop him turning into a puddle).

    The problem with this is that it's a trace from your centre (on the JC model, this is just above groin height). Thus when you're looking straight ahead, the trace is of sufficient length to escape your own collision radius, so it works perfectly. If you're looking down or up at too steep an angle, the trace distance isn't sufficient to escape your collision cylinder, so returns nothing. Thus getting down onto ladders is inherently treacherous, and you're better off just dropping down and looking straight at the ladder as you fall while smashing "forward" like a maniac...which is actually probably how most of you do it.

  17. #17
    New Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Seattle, US
    Shouldn't ladders be at least a little bit dangerous? In real life, one misstep and you could easily be falling all the way down.

  18. #18
    ZylonBane
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: ZylonBane
    In real life, you don't just spontaneously fall off ladders from looking in the wrong direction.

  19. #19
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Ladders in real life are primarily dangerous not because people fall off of them, but rather because the ladders themselves are not properly secured and tumble to the ground with people still firmly attached to them.

    ...Example. (Yeah, yeah, I'm an asshole.)

  20. #20
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by ZylonBane View Post
    In real life, you don't just spontaneously fall off ladders from looking in the wrong direction.
    Really? Happens to me all the time

  21. #21
    New Member
    Registered: Jun 2012
    Ok, that's it. Was really enjoying the game once more. Played the OM's again, played some fanmissions. But ladders, those f***ing ladders. Well, and ropes too. Especially when moving down. 20 reloads and still falling down has just done it for me. Ragequitting now. Sorry for gravedigging an old topic and thanks for letting me rant.

    edit: Heh, just saw that this was on the Deus Ex forum, was playing Thief though. Nevermind, point still stands.

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