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Thread: Real dynamic shadows

  1. #1
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2006
    Location: Moscow

    Real dynamic shadows

    Hello everyone,

    Few years ago there've been a test release of newdark with dx9 and real dynamic shadows. But it was just a temp work which is now abandoned. Why it is so? Why people are working on re-texturing or fixing wrong brushes, but not on shadows? Shadows from movable objects or characters also can be enabled. Looks so promising and interesting.
    Last edited by vorob; 3rd Jun 2015 at 12:03.

  2. #2
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2012
    Location: Germany
    it breaks all current official and fan missions

    also i like the idea of focusing the community on one task
    simply because it gets results
    if we were to start a project for every single idea there would be no noticeable progress made

    not to say that dynamic shadows arent cool, but imho i dont think they should have priority over the current projects

  3. #3
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2010
    Not to be snippy, but aren't you the fellow who runs around Darkfate.org spouting-off about how
    The Dark Mod has ugly blocky geometry because the shadows make anything better looking too expensive?

    Now you're raving about even lower poly geometry with substantially blockier shadows as well?

    Anyway, "if things work out well..." an upcoming TDM build might have some visual shadow improvements
    so you might be able to retire your ranting on that front.

    Still, it would be cool to see some T1\T2 OM\FM's redone with dynamic shadows even with their current
    visual drawbacks. Maybe it would motivate the NewDark team to do more work there too?
    (Though there's probably a whole army of folks who'd rather see the NewDark team somehow
    get multi-player working natively instead.)

  4. #4
    bikerdude
    Guest
    Zing..

    But back on a serious note, as nbhor has mentioned hopefully for TDM 2.0x we will have fully working soft shadows.
    Last edited by bikerdude; 14th Oct 2015 at 12:04.

  5. #5
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2006
    Location: Moscow
    Not to be snippy, but aren't you the fellow who runs around Darkfate.org spouting-off about how
    The Dark Mod has ugly blocky geometry because the shadows make anything better looking too expensive?
    Not sure what you are talking about, but yes, most map makers are creating very blocky levels and sharp shadow only make it look worse.

    In Thief we have perfect soft shadows and this update can make them dynamic.

  6. #6
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2015
    Not sure what you're talking about, but no, in the two Thief games which are used for most fan missions, there aren't perfect soft shadows. They are pretty much blocky shadows. The EP gives the illusion of making some shadows soft, and some missions use tweaks to emulate soft shadows, like Death's Turbid Veil. They work for making the missions look good, but they tend to slow down things for quite a few players, just check the graphics debate thread in the Thief fan missions section.

  7. #7
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2010
    Location: Le Havre (France, 76)
    You can change the size of lightmap in Thief, with New Dark (dromed), but it reduce the values limits (polygons), and you cannot doing complex things.

  8. #8
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by vorob View Post
    Not sure what you are talking about, but yes, most map makers are creating very blocky levels and sharp shadow only make it look worse.

    In Thief we have perfect soft shadows and this update can make them dynamic.
    I'd say it has more to do with Doom 3's lighting scheme throwing everything into stark contrast, making things appear sharper and blockier than they actually are. But when you get right down to it, someone who knows what they're doing can make maps with at least 20x the polycount of your average Thief FM.

  9. #9
    Well, the whole last and current generation of game engines ditched the dynamic lights and shadows for a reason. Staying with lightmaps and not forcing anything like that into a very old engine is pretty healthy approach.

  10. #10
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Judith View Post
    Well, the whole last and current generation of game engines ditched the dynamic lights and shadows for a reason. Staying with lightmaps and not forcing anything like that into a very old engine is pretty healthy approach.
    That's not true. If anything engines are moving towards GI solutions.

  11. #11
    ZylonBane
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: ZylonBane
    It's true. Gastrointestinal lighting is the wave of the future.

  12. #12
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by ZylonBane View Post
    It's true. Gastrointestinal lighting is the wave of the future.
    Sounds like a fancy euphemism for setting farts on fire.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Kerrle View Post
    That's not true. If anything engines are moving towards GI solutions.
    That doesn't contradict anything I said.

    Also, GastroIllusion is already here, it's called McDonalds. I wish we had Wendy's here.

  14. #14
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2004
    Location: Ireland/Poland
    Hey,
    I'm just resurrecting this thread, as yesterday I came across a link to this video posted on Polish Thief forum:



    I'm really impressed! But most of all surprised that people do such modifications without spreading any word around... (at least not here, in TTLG)
    The youtube user who posted that video is Dmitry Vorobyev, which I presume is the same person who started this thread (vorob) asking about real dynamic shadows.
    Is he the author of this patch? Anyone knows anything more? I wouldn't mind this feature to be added to NewDark 1.24... somehow...

  15. #15
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2004
    Location: Germany
    This is really impressive! I hope something like this will be released with upcoming NewDark versions. That brings a whole new atmosphere to the game...

  16. #16
    bikerdude
    Guest
    I believe that's an old vid, as I remember seeing ages ago.

  17. #17
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Location: Prince Edward Island, Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by Gecko View Post
    This is really impressive! I hope something like this will be released with upcoming NewDark versions. That brings a whole new atmosphere to the game...
    I'm pretty sure that is New Dark, but you have to enable it somehow in one of the config files.

  18. #18
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2010
    Location: Le Havre (France, 76)
    Quote Originally Posted by New Horizon View Post
    I'm pretty sure that is New Dark, but you have to enable it somehow in one of the config files.
    Yea it seem to be New Dark (Light color is not 16 bit).

    But there is no documentation which talk about a command to enable dynamic shadow.

  19. #19
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2010
    Location: Le Havre (France, 76)
    New Prop: Renderer->"Dynamic Light Radius"
    ------------------------------------------

    The default radius for Dynamic Light is 10, this property gives the ability to set a non-standard radius with a
    value between 4 and 30. Any value outside that range will be clamped to ensure that the radius stays within the
    range. Don't forget that dynamic lights do not cast shadows on terrain and will shine through walls, so increasing
    the radius should done with a bit of care and performance testing.
    The last patch say this...

    But maybe it's a preview for new features? I hope

  20. #20
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2004
    Location: Ireland/Poland
    Quote Originally Posted by New Horizon View Post
    I'm pretty sure that is New Dark, but you have to enable it somehow in one of the config files.
    Are you sure? I couldn't find any mention on realtime dynamic shadows. New Dark fixed dynamic lights radius at some version, but again there's nothing said about casting shadows.

    Edit: Ooops! Le MAlin 76 was quicker.... by 16 minutes - I've been watching the video and going through the docs again while answering!

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