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Thread: Announcing Thief: The Black Parade, a campaign for Thief Gold

  1. #251
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2016
    Location: France
    Don't forget the Chalice of Souls.

    Also, if you want even more appetizers, I'd recommend checking out missions by Purah, Melan, and Team CoSaS.

  2. #252
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2011
    Location: Montpellier, France
    You're absolutely right, for some reason I always forget about the Chalice of Souls despite it being the most important set of missions in the lore pre-The Black Parade.

  3. #253
    New Member
    Registered: Mar 2021
    I actually follow the mainstream gaming industry and play many of the major titles close to release, but The Black Parade is the game i am most excited about. It's incredible that a few talented, hard working peeps equipped with the Dark Engine and experiences of 20 years o' fan missions can easiliy beat 100 million dollar projects.

    edit.: I would definitely throw money at this if it was on Patreon or something comparable.

  4. #254
    New Member
    Registered: Aug 2018
    Location: UK/Poland

    Mysterious manner

    I am pretty sure this production will loot your soul

  5. #255
    Quote Originally Posted by Saturnyne View Post
    I actually follow the mainstream gaming industry and play many of the major titles close to release, but The Black Parade is the game i am most excited about. It's incredible that a few talented, hard working peeps equipped with the Dark Engine and experiences of 20 years o' fan missions can easiliy beat 100 million dollar projects.

    edit.: I would definitely throw money at this if it was on Patreon or something comparable.

    I assume we can't do Patreons for Thief FMs because Eidos holds the IP rights. Happy to be corrected if anyone knows otherwise.

  6. #256
    New Member
    Registered: Jan 2021
    Quote Originally Posted by RippedPhreak View Post
    I assume we can't do Patreons for Thief FMs because Eidos holds the IP rights. Happy to be corrected if anyone knows otherwise.
    I believe you could if you wanted to. The idea isn't unheard of. The only notable examples I can think of are Skyrim/Fallout related. So unless Eidos has a completely different set of rules/opinions on modding, There shouldn't be an issue with it.

    The Skyrim Together Mod team has had a patreon for years and Bethesda hasn't made any complaints about it. The only things I've heard of Bethesda "discouraging" is importing voice lines from their previous games as was the case with the Fallout 4: New Vegas Project and the Fallout 4: Capital Wasteland Project. That doesn't seem to be a problem for Thief since FM authors have been using Thief Gold assets/Voice lines in Thief 2 FMs for a long time without issue.

  7. #257
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2004
    Location: Germany
    Quote Originally Posted by BazookaBear View Post
    I believe you could if you wanted to. The idea isn't unheard of. The only notable examples I can think of are Skyrim/Fallout related. So unless Eidos has a completely different set of rules/opinions on modding, There shouldn't be an issue with it.

    [...] doesn't seem to be a problem for Thief since FM authors have been using Thief Gold assets/Voice lines in Thief 2 FMs for a long time without issue.
    This just means that no one brought this to any court. The DromEd2 license usually found in the DOC folder of modern Thief 2 NewDark installations clearly says:

    "Your license to use this software will automatically terminate immediately without receiving notice from Looking Glass if you fail to comply with anything in this license, you agree to destroy this software and documentation upon termination of this license.

    [...]

    Your levels can not contain any illegal, trademarked, or copyrighted materials unless you obtain written consent of the trademark or copyright holders."


    Thus, anyone making a level (usually called a "mission" or "FM" here) and including copyrighted materials without written consent from the copyright holders has violated his license to use DromEd2, and now has to delete it. Most likely, the original games' voice sets are copyrighted. This might also depend on the country you live in; in Germany, almost every word you utter is copyrighted - the phrase just has to be unique enough.

    There's also the following phrase:

    "Your levels must be distributed free of charge. Neither you nor anyone else may sell, rent, lease or commercially exploit these levels in any way. You may only exchange them at no charge to licensed users of Thief 2: The Metal Age."

    Whether that includes payment constructs such as the ones using Patreon, I dare not say. Ask a lawyer if you want to, but remember that the consequences of acting against the phrase above might also influence other people's lives.

    I think we should not stir up any authorities by being too bold with legal bonds. Don't put any money into this, and with a bit of luck, nothing bad will happen.

  8. #258
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2011
    Location: Montpellier, France
    The idea of a Patreon for this project has been floating around for quite some time (potentially earlier in this very thread even) but I shot it down for various reasons:

    - In addition to the 7 core members the team has, we have between 10 to 15 contributors including artists, voice actors and so on. How do you redistribute all this money evenly?
    - I am a very strong advocate of free modding, in my mind it should always be free. One of the first conditions I tell contributors is that nobody is making any money with this and we're all doing it for free on our free time.
    - Even if LGS is long gone and Square Enix doesn't seem to care about Thief I feel it's wrong to profit from their IP. We didn't make it and we don't own it.

    The best thing you can do to support us is to spread the word around and tell your friends about The Black Parade.

  9. #259
    New Member
    Registered: Aug 2018
    Location: UK/Poland
    Hey skacky and team! Please let me know how much did you put horror elements in it? Is it minor implementation or something bigger than that.
    I enjoy playing spooky, lonely missions from original missions set, such as Down in the Bonehoard, The Haunted Cathedral, The Lost City etc.
    I am a fan of your productions. You're very talented people that create Thief legacy along with original creators

  10. #260
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2008
    Location: Santiago / Chile
    Quote Originally Posted by skacky View Post
    The idea of a Patreon for this project has been floating around for quite some time (potentially earlier in this very thread even) but I shot it down for various reasons:

    - In addition to the 7 core members the team has, we have between 10 to 15 contributors including artists, voice actors and so on. How do you redistribute all this money evenly?
    - I am a very strong advocate of free modding, in my mind it should always be free. One of the first conditions I tell contributors is that nobody is making any money with this and we're all doing it for free on our free time.
    - Even if LGS is long gone and Square Enix doesn't seem to care about Thief I feel it's wrong to profit from their IP. We didn't make it and we don't own it.

    The best thing you can do to support us is to spread the word around and tell your friends about The Black Parade.
    Maybe you could open a donation button, and so many others around here that makes good missions, that's a voluntary element.

  11. #261
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2018
    Well, this looks incredible, I didn't know until just now this project is in the works...guess I will have to install Thief Gold when it comes out : )

  12. #262
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2011
    Location: Montpellier, France
    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike View Post
    Hey skacky and team! Please let me know how much did you put horror elements in it? Is it minor implementation or something bigger than that.
    I enjoy playing spooky, lonely missions from original missions set, such as Down in the Bonehoard, The Haunted Cathedral, The Lost City etc.
    I am a fan of your productions. You're very talented people that create Thief legacy along with original creators
    It's definitely got some very spooky bits.

    Quote Originally Posted by caqo View Post
    Maybe you could open a donation button, and so many others around here that makes good missions, that's a voluntary element.
    The team and I are against it for the very reasons detailed in the post you quoted. We don't want your money for things that should stay free, period.

  13. #263
    DromEd Archmage
    Registered: Nov 2010
    Location: Between a bed and a machine

    We don't want your money

    Indeed, we, the team and all the contributors who help us with arts, voices and other resources, involve a lot of work in this project.

    Even if it's sweet to be willingful to reward our hard work with donations ; as it could add extra motivation and make a little profit to us ; we don't want our project to become commercial.

    The reasons are :

    - it could create trouble as we would have to deal with how to share the money among the contributors and the team mates ; which will obviously be a source of conflict within the team

    - since profit would exist, it could also lead us to copyright issues as Dark Engine is not a free engine and our campaign do use assets from other campaign and authors

    - we think it's not ethical as this community has always been working free for the sake of our love to the game and franchise, ie establishing a donation button may create a precedant and invite some authors to make fan mission for money instead of passion. Thus we prefer for the good of the community to refuse such a thing

    - finaly, involving money also involve expectations. Even if it's pleasant to see your trust in our work, we also don't want players to overhype themselves about the project and feel even more disappointed if they spent something for our work.


    This is the reason, like Skacky said, the only thing and also best thing you can do if you want to help us, is to spread the word so the world know about our project but also the community and the games.

  14. #264
    New Member
    Registered: Aug 2018
    Location: UK/Poland
    Quote Originally Posted by FireMage View Post
    Indeed, we, the team and all the contributors who help us with arts, voices and other resources, involve a lot of work in this project.

    Even if it's sweet to be willingful to reward our hard work with donations ; as it could add extra motivation and make a little profit to us ; we don't want our project to become commercial.

    The reasons are :

    - it could create trouble as we would have to deal with how to share the money among the contributors and the team mates ; which will obviously be a source of conflict within the team

    - since profit would exist, it could also lead us to copyright issues as Dark Engine is not a free engine and our campaign do use assets from other campaign and authors

    - we think it's not ethical as this community has always been working free for the sake of our love to the game and franchise, ie establishing a donation button may create a precedant and invite some authors to make fan mission for money instead of passion. Thus we prefer for the good of the community to refuse such a thing

    - finaly, involving money also involve expectations. Even if it's pleasant to see your trust in our work, we also don't want players to overhype themselves about the project and feel even more disappointed if they spent something for our work.


    This is the reason, like Skacky said, the only thing and also best thing you can do if you want to help us, is to spread the word so the world know about our project but also the community and the games.
    I hope this subject is closed once and for all. I shared a link to Black Parade Project recently on all of my social media pages.
    PS: I am a fan of spooky missions. I prey to Master Builder to see some cut content from the original game as well as new terrifying game sounds and animations.

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