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View Poll Results: Should Britain leave the European Union?

Voters
60. You may not vote on this poll
  • YES!...Must Brexit!

    20 33.33%
  • NO!...We Must Remain!

    32 53.33%
  • I have no idea what I want, yet I will vote anyway!

    8 13.33%
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Results 951 to 975 of 980

Thread: BREXIT --->

  1. #951
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Land of the crazy
    Sorry, one more point on the Russia side topic:

    Quote Originally Posted by Gryzemuis View Post
    I was already in my twenties when the Soviet Union fell. I remember the Cold War. I remember the propaganda and the fear-mongering. I remember the madness of Mutual Assured Destruction. I remember how the constant threat of a (nuclear) war was always present. I don't want that back.
    Me neither, but it's too late. Russia re-started flying their nuclear bombers on the old Cold War alert routes about 10-12 years ago. NATO doesn't publicly detail them, but there's been thousands of intercepts of Tu-95s and Tu-160s over Northern Europe, North America, and S. Korea and Japan since then. There's also been multiple instances of Russian fighters with IFF turned off crossing the border into the Baltic states. And a long campaign of pointless harassment i.e. buzzing ships, forcing planes to take evasive maneuvers, having their fire control radars light up NATO aircraft, etc. At first, we brushed it all off, saying the shows of force are just part of Putin's domestic PR strategy.

    But now they've got a half dozen acknowledged new nuclear weapon development programs going. Not just new ICBMs, which is understandable since they are retiring the SS-18/R-36M, but also some pretty scary (and unnecessary) developments, including tactical nukes, first strike weapons, and autonomous nuclear powered weapons. They like to claim they are responding to US missile defense deployments, which is nonsense considering the size of their arsenal. They also like to say they are responding to China's developments, who were never part of the INF treaty. But regardless of the reasons or excuses, what should have been one for one replacement of older weapons for modernization's sake has now turned into another nuclear arms race. My country is now planning to spend at least several hundred billion USD over the next 20 years, not just to modernize but to develop new intermediate range weapons too.

    I hadn't worried about nuclear weapons since the 1980s. I remember during the 1990s and early 2000s, we were having our best nuclear weapon scientists visit each other's secret facilities, stay in each other's homes, and collaborate. First on nuclear science, but later on how to maintain deterrence with a reduced and aging arsenal, so as to avoid a round of new weapons development and testing. The way the NATO nations and the former Soviet nations handled the final stages of the Cold War in the late '80s and the initial post-Cold War period in the early '90s was gave me warm feelings about the world and dreams of future visits I'd make to Russia. The closest I got was a fishing trip to Kamchatka that my Dad planned when he was living in China, which we cancelled after a friend returned from traveling in Eastern Russia with a horror story of a week long detention with no explanation. I regret missing that opportunity, because with kids now and the way relations are going, I don't think I'd dare travel anywhere besides Moscow and Saint Petersburg.

    I don't think we need to be scared of Russia. If there is something to be scared about, it's China. How China is a ran by a repressive dictatorship. How they get better and better at repression. And how their economical power is a threat to our wellfare. And how nobody in the West dares to say something about that, because someone might makes less profit if they do.
    The Russians have nothing, besides oil.
    I agree. With Russia, we can always break out the old Reagan playbook. You want another arms race? OK, we'll bankrupt you again. We can't do that with China.

    I can't tell you how disappointed I am with how China has changed under Xi's leadership. After seeing what Jiang Zemin's party did with China in the 1990s, I finally visited there for the first time about 15 years ago and it was really eye opening. It was booming like no place I'd seen, and although there was ample evidence of government planning in housing and even brand new planned cities, it was also amazingly capitalist. The people were so welcoming, wide eyed, optimistic. But I was surprised how much freedom they seemed to have. I knew about regulations on family size, etc., but it seemed like the central government was pretty much leaving people alone and didn't have a whole lot of control over things except at the macro level.

    Around that time, a lot of Americans were moving there for work. I have a couple of family members and many friends who worked and lived in China at some point during Hu's leadership. We could all see that China was going to replace the United States as the world's superpower, but some of us thought that by being closely engaged and giving them a leg up economically, we were helping to shape our successor. I don't see things that way anymore. My view now is that we were naive to believe that economic liberalization would lead to political liberalization, and they took advantage of us. We helped an authoritarian power become the biggest industrial nation.

  2. #952
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    I was just reading the important news that the earth's magnetic north pole is quickly drifting from Canada towards Siberia and wondering what kind of plot is afoot. We need to do something to ensure the North Pole doesn't fall into Russian hands!

  3. #953
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN

  4. #954
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2003
    Location: Darmstadt, Germany
    To be honest, I don't think you can blame them. What with Trump pulling out of this agreement and that, meddling with Nord Stream 2 and the US and China developing their own hypersonic weapons - the West can't really take the moral high ground here.

  5. #955
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    I wasn't singling out Russia for criticism, just responding to some suggestions made here that Russia is not a significant threat to the west.

  6. #956
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    Well ... so long and good luck.

    Last edited by demagogue; 31st Jan 2020 at 14:16.

  7. #957
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Lille, France
    Buh Bye !




  8. #958
    SShock2.com
    Member

    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: The land of ever sideways rain
    Not happy.

    I wrote a much longer piece, with lots of unsavoury language, elaborating about the massive failure of the political system, the narrow-mindedness of the poor fools tricked into voting for it directly opposite to their own interest, and some general ranting about how unity is always better than isolationism, but I opted not to post it. You've heard it all before. It can all be summed up into two short words.

    Not happy.

    Or perhaps a slightly stronger phrase. We're fucked. All of us. We lost. I know it. I just hate it that we lost for all the wrong reasons.

  9. #959
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: The Land of Make Believe
    I'm still not happy about it, but I made my peace with it a while ago. I'm simply going to enjoy every mini-disaster that ensues on a comedic level, each bringing with it a gradual realisation that maybe, just maybe, we haven't entered a new era of milk and honey. Obviously bearing in mind the average Quitling is as dumb as a box of rocks, so it may take a while for the metaphorical penny to drop (as opposed to the actual penny, which has dropped quarter of its value since the referendum). Indeed, I've just been watching a few videos of Brexiters being interviewed, and not one of them was able to come up with an actual, tangible benefit of leaving the European Union, even while they were stood there looking like twats in their Union Jack clothing.

    The one thing I am absolutely certain about is that the divides in this country won't be healed any time soon. The contempt I have for these people is off the scale. The one saving grace being that those who voted for this farce are going to be worst hit by its effects, being, as they are, substantially over-represented in the "old and useless" and "poor and stupid" demographics.

  10. #960
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Canuckistan GWN
    The UK needs Europe. Not so much the other way around, as Jolly Old will shortly discover. And no, young Canadians are not going to flood in to fill the underpaid service sector jobs vacated by underpaid continentals (as one pro-Brexit pundit promised on the radio yesterday). We can hardly keep enough desperate temporary foreign workers around to serve our cheap burgers and under cooked doughnuts as it is.

  11. #961
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Berghem Haven
    "EU acts like a moral dictatorship, we want freedom! NO MARKET REGULATIONS from Bruxelles eurocrats covered by Greta phony environmentalism!!!1111"

    Of Course! Take it from London, not Bruxelles! It's totally different, really another planet (oh, injoke)!

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/b...-2035-n1129616

    Boris >> Greta

  12. #962
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Less than a month remaining until Brexit and the no deal scenario looks more and more likely. On the bright side, though, a deal has been reached regarding the Northern Ireland border:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-55229681

  13. #963
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Details of the agreement have not been published...
    Hmm. Glad they've worked something out. I hope it's acceptable to the locals.

  14. #964
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    I just got an email from Amazon yesterday, telling me that anything I order from them will now have customs duties applies from next year. (Ireland does not currently have its own Amazon site.)

    I still can't see them actually achieving a deal, with all the UK red flags that rule out any meaningful deal, and which the UK have completely refused to budge on.

    We'll find out soon how badly this all turns out for them.

  15. #965
    SShock2.com
    Member

    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: The land of ever sideways rain
    I am pissed off beyond words. I know, my side lost. We for some reason got the clueless blustering buffoon mophead. This, inevitably, means that in these the very last days of negotiations will mean we lose. But it will be painted as a Great Victory, for the rich posh twats of England with delusions of grandeur, and nobody else. The rest of us, we all lose. Boris is the figurehead of Brexit, and, by his incompetence, will also be the poster boy for Scottish Independence. We're so fucking sick of Westminster now, and the last five years have made it grow exponentially, much like the virus curve.

    Boo! Hiss!

    If I knew any more offensive words than "Boris, go fuck yourself", I'd use them. But I don't. He certainly fucked all of us.

    I'll never understand why poor people vote conservative, exactly directly against their own interest. People are just morons. Or gullible. If people, for once, voted for what was actually GOOD for them, the world would be a much better place, but unfortunately we have propaganda and spin.

    :ahem:

    Then again, I'm one of those annoying environmentalist Greenpeace members who's been whining for the last 35 years. I don't want to win the argument by the destruction of the planet. In fact, I'd happily lose, if we live.

  16. #966
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Nameless Voice View Post
    I just got an email from Amazon yesterday, telling me that anything I order from them will now have customs duties applies from next year. (Ireland does not currently have its own Amazon site.)
    Amazon.de + Google Translate?

  17. #967
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    Hmm, yes, the "enlightened self interest" of liberal capitalism would work a lot better if people actually acted in their own self-interest. What are you supposed to do when people can't even be properly selfish but actually relish the chance to screw themselves along with everybody else?

    The most maddening thing to cap 2020 is how many people online you still see thinking "No Deal Brexit will be the best thing to happen to the UK" (along with "Trump should have won & the election was stolen from him"). It's one thing for people to make stupid decisions, but it's a whole other bag of marmots when they don't even see things for what they are and made decisions that don't even match reality!

    And now we have this whole mass of people that are stuck in some fantasy world for who knows how long that you can expect will be hell bent on obstructing any attempt to stop the bleeding when it inevitably comes to that part.

  18. #968
    BANNED
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    What you're saying is - we're doomed.

    I agree. Unless that Israeli Prof is right and alien contact has been made.

  19. #969
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post
    Amazon.de + Google Translate?
    You can access amazon.de in English - the main issue is that it doesn't offer free shipping, unlike the UK one.

    Anyway, all the recent talk of Brexit reminded me of this song written by an Irish comedy trio back in February, and since this thread had been idle during that time, it looks like no one has posted it yet:


  20. #970
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    Obvious meme for this is obvious.


  21. #971
    BANNED
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    It's going to be rough ride, but some people are going to make a lot of money out of it.

  22. #972
    LittleFlower
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Netherlands
    Especially for Gray.


  23. #973
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    PSA


  24. #974
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: In my room
    Beethoven's ninth symphony echoes quietly through the mist over the English channel

  25. #975
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    So, Brexit happened.
    They got a trade deal with the EU at the last minute, but it's a really bad one.

    There are massive supply shortages in UK supermarkets, with lots of empty shelves.
    In Northern Ireland, Sainsbury's were forced to buy Spar-branded stock (a smaller Irish grocery chain), to at least have something to put on their shelves.

    There are massive delays in shipping because no one has a clue how to do the paperwork (on both sides of the Channel and Irish Sea, in this case.)

    Marks and Spenser cannot ship some items to Ireland, because while they are a UK company, some of their produce is made in Germany, and there's no free movement for goods coming out of the UK which were not produced there (even if they were originally produced in an EU country.)

    There was the case of Curry's / PC World accidentally charging import duties on home deliveries, because while they are a selling in Ireland from an Irish website, the stock comes from the UK and so import duties apply.


    As the UK is no longer in the EU, they are no longer allowed to hold a .eu domain name, which rather annoyed the UK hate group "LeaveEU".
    They tried to get around this by registering as a company in Ireland, but since they provided false information while registering, it has been taken down, while a few Irish politicians have said that their hatred is not welcome here - to which they replied by threatening to back a campaign for Ireland to leave the EU. Which is kind of hilarious, because it means they admit that their entire goal of Brexit was hugely damaging for Britain, since now they're trying to use it as a threat against other countries.


    Meanwhile, over in the UK, they're taking about scrapping the laws that set a maximum of 48 hours that someone can work per week, cutting social welfare for their poorest citizens, and for the first time ever Unicef has started providing humanitarian aid to British citizens who otherwise couldn't afford to eat.

    Fishermen, who largely voted for Brexit to "reclaim British seas", are now furious that they no longer have access to EU fishing waters.


    The disruptions here in Ireland are fairly minor, all things considered. But the UK is quickly becoming ... well, exactly what its citizens voted for.
    Last edited by Nameless Voice; 21st Jan 2021 at 13:04.

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