I am intrigued as to how my liberty is going to benefit from more obstacles being placed in my path for visiting, living in and working in Europe, in the event of us leaving the EU. That looks awfully like less liberty to me, not more.Originally Posted by Vivian
It's actually a myth that we're leaping into the unknown and dealing with something without precedent here. As part of Denmark, Greenland left the EEC, the predecessor to the EU, in 1985.
Since which time, the economy of Denmark has grown at a much faster rate than Greenland's economy.
No doubt another piece of evidence to be dismissed as "lies, damned lies and statistics".
I think a free movement zone is actually a great idea in theory. It's just what it's tied to that is the problem.
To Gryz's point, economic forecasts are routinely manufactured to support a political agenda, e.g. to justify bids for the Olympics, major infrastructure projects, tax cuts, stimulus packages, trade deals, and so on.
Oh boo hoo your parasitic lifestyle will be more difficult to achieve. Most people can't afford to travel to other countries. Most people can barely pay their rent or buy food for their family. Get your head out of your ass and get your priorities straight! Fuck the upper class and their upper class problems.
Where are you from, dude? You sound super upset about things.
Wow, uh, that's a lot of assumptions. I'll admit I haven't followed the Brexit talk closely, but I've seen some pretty compelling cases made that reduced ease of trade will hurt the UK economy. Won't reduced ease of trade increase prices on anything either imported or made with imported materials? What kind of impact is that going to have on food and consumer goods?
Would you care to explain what you mean?
A quick check shows that he is from France, which explains a lot, and that he holds a number of thoroughly deranged beliefs, which explains a lot more.
It shouldn't come as any surprise that he's also wrong about most people not being able to afford to travel to other countries, given that a majority of British people holiday abroad every year, predominantly in other European nations.
Quite what he means by "parasitic lifestyle" is unclear, though given that he seems to consider Russian annexation of other countries' territory to be a lesser crime than McDonald's opening restaurants in France, expecting sound logic and arguments would be the ultimate triumph of hope over experience.
Best to just ignore abusive trolls, I find.
Holy nondenominational shit, this is probably the most cynical string of words posing as an argument yet.
How is freedom of movement parasitic? In Canada I am free to move across one of the largest nations on earth. Am I a mega-parasite?
The thing with the EU is that poorer people CAN move more freely than previously. Travel, for work or pleasure, is available to more people precisely because they don't have to pay to jump through extra hoops.
There's a lot of arguments one can muster to leave the EU and yours isn't one of them.
I have an elderly English (UK Subject) friend who plans to move to Spain to retire. Does anyone have any idea how a Brexit might affect her and other ex-pat Brits presently retired on the Continent?
It all depends on what the EU and UK are able to agree on after the break-up. Who gets the house, who gets the kids, etc. For the expats already living in EU, the law says they can't be deported, but they may lose their healthcare and benefits. As for people planning to retire, obviously it will get harder to get a residence permit, etc.
This is the top 50 questions (with answers) posed to, possibly/probably, the BBC. It doesn't mention that specifically but does mention future health care costs in Spain if Britain leaves the EU. There is no mention of not being able to retire there but I guess if countries are pissed off enough, they might make it more difficult. Probably, like many things, no-one really knows yet. Similarly there are no answers, that I've found, to what would happen to the 2.whatever million Brits living elsewhere in Europe or the EU citizens currently living here although I did read somewhere that there would be an amnesty of some description for EU people living here.
There are some quite interesting questions in that article but I find it hard to believe that someone is really interested in whether England (Britain?) would be barred from the Eurovision Song Contest.
Edit. I see Starker already answered.
Vote Remain! Come on, get in everyone!!!
If there's some kind of amnesty then that sounds like half of what Leavers want doesn't happen anyway.
This part reminds me of the arguments here about the 11 million unregistered immigrants in the US. You can slow new people coming in, but short of ethnic cleansing (which we don't do anymore, ffs, just making sure we're all still on the same page about that), you can't just make millions of people change address on a dime, and even gently pushing would be pretty disruptive & rattle the economy. You either amnesty them or give them a path to nationalization so they're not just perpetually illegal. But to batshit rightwing's ears, that's not what they want to hear. But that's the only option they're leaving if they push it. I don't think this point is directed to anyone here though.
It's the night before and I just wanted to give a shout out to Vivian and SD for making me smile with the best zings in the thread. Also I find it oddly comforting to see which TTLG peeps are voting Remain because, as much as I've been a humungous dick to many of you over the years like the giant argumentative twat I am, you're all the main guys that made my time here fun and now I see why.
I'm voting remain tomorrow evening. See you at the polling station, or not.
*** Voting on the EU Referendum is now officially open! ***
Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak, and courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen!
So get out and vote!...and may Britain embrace a wise and prosperous path!
Crossing my fingers for you guys.
My dad, who's German, has already asked me if, in the case of Brexit, I'd reapply for a German passport. I think it rankled him when back in the '90s I let mine expire and instead got a UK passport. Can't say I'd like identifying as a German when travelling, but it is something to consider.
Vote early! Vote often! Vote responsibly!
Most of all, vote your conscience!
The fate of destiny is in your hands!
Got to my local polling station at 7:01am. First one there, no one else in sight. It's a church. The guy ticking off the names had to call out my registration number to his assistant: "Can I have...erm...voting slip...erm...number 666 please?"
Okay, suddenly I imagine you looking like Damien from The Omen...
I'm watching this document from YouGov, and there are a few lines that seem strange a bit:
How can this be possible, to rig a referendum in BritainIs it likely that the EU referendum will be rigged:
Probably true = 28%? I mean, why so many people (28%) don't trust... um... their government?
I totally get why people might not trust David Cameron. When many of those people then go and trust the likes of Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage and Michael Gove, though, it makes my head wobble.
I voted!
"I don't know about angels, but it's fear that gives men wings."
– Max Payne
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