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Thread: Red Dead Redemption 2

  1. #51
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    Yeah, that kind of thing and the whole crunch culture, that's one of the things that's souring me on the whole industry.

  2. #52
    Administrator
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: above the clouds
    Yes, it's bad management. I hope they don't dump a load of staff after they're done.

    Makes me wonder if they'll also cause a load of launch day bugs due to people burning out.

  3. #53
    Southquarter.com/fms
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: The Akkala Highlands
    Love how the guy backtracked and said "oh, uh well it was only 3 or 4 or us working 100 hour weeks, and only a few times." Open mouth, insert foot. I'm usually against unions, but this industry really needs it I think. Talented people are taken such advantage of, just because they really strive to work in the game industry.

  4. #54
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: not here
    Most industries need unions, especially when country-wide laws and regulations are loose enough to let a business run scot-free with things like crunch.

  5. #55
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    My uncle works in the games industry, and when he was part of an activision studio, he told me they demanded not only an unreasonable deadline for the game, but also that it receive certain scores from the press. This meant that everyone had to work severe overtime all the time, and even then couldn't fully reach the goals activision set. So yeah, I don't believe that guy's backtrack for a second. This is standard practice in the industry, unfortunately. I think publishers know they're asking way too much and are making people suffer for it, but it saves them money so they don't care.

  6. #56
    PC Gamering Smartey Man
    I <3 consoles and gamepads

    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: New Zealand
    Reading the between the lines:- Rockstar promotes a working culture where if you don't volunteer to work overtime you're seen as lazy and you're punished as a result.


  7. #57
    Level 10,000 achieved
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Finland
    Here's Houser's response to the blowback:

    There seems to be some confusion arising from my interview with Harold Goldberg [in New York Magazine]. After working on the game for seven years, the senior writing team, which consists of four people, Mike Unsworth, Rupert Humphries, Lazlow and myself, had, as we always do, three weeks of intense work when we wrapped everything up. Three weeks, not years. We have all worked together for at least 12 years now, and feel we need this to get everything finished. After so many years of getting things organized and ready on this project, we needed this to check and finalize everything.

    More importantly, we obviously don’t expect anyone else to work this way. Across the whole company, we have some senior people who work very hard purely because they’re passionate about a project, or their particular work, and we believe that passion shows in the games we release. But that additional effort is a choice, and we don’t ask or expect anyone to work anything like this. Lots of other senior people work in an entirely different way and are just as productive – I’m just not one of them! No one, senior or junior, is ever forced to work hard. I believe we go to great lengths to run a business that cares about its people, and to make the company a great place for them to work.
    Tho even this reads like it's encouraging this culture. "No one, senior or junior, is ever forced to work hard." as if working a regular 40-hour week isn't considered "working hard". Fuuuuuuck off.

  8. #58
    Thing What Kicks
    Registered: Apr 2004
    Location: London
    It's the same in the Media & Entertainment sector. But it gets reported even less than in the games industry because, well, they are the reporters.
    Even working for a reseller as I do, there's constant pressure to work overtime and weekends.
    I decided to stop doing that a few years back, which I'm sure has soured relations with my immediate managers and colleagues who have also bought in to the whole "More hours equals working harder" macho bullshit, but hey, I couldn't give two fucks. I'm unionised.

    The last time there was some pressure from this was fairly recently. About 18 months ago, our company got bought out by a competitor. Thankfully, with them being larger and with a fully formed HR department, I took advantage of this and made sure my newly negotiated contract was rock-solid on working hours. I also expressly chose not to opt out of the working time regulations, which stipulates I can't work more than 45 hours a week.

    So a year or so before we were taken over, I'd been coming in at 8:30 and leaving at 17:30, taking "lunch" at my desk, effectively doing 7.5 more hours a week then I was contracted to. When they bought us and I'd got my contract finalised and in writing, I started leaving the office at 17:00 and making sure I took an hour for lunch.
    After a while, my manager finally noticed this and asked if I wouldn't mind leaving at 17:30 instead.
    Fine, no problem, I'll just come in at 9:00.
    Nope, he wanted me to continue coming in at 8:30.
    So I called the union, let him know I'd done so, at which point he must have gone to his superiors and been told he didn't know WTF he was talking about, because when he came back to me, my new hours were the ones I'd suggested.

    Meanwhile, younger colleagues in my department who are on less money are working every weekend up until Christmas including overnight, 12 hour shifts. All in the name of supposedly increasing productivity.

    This is definitely a cultural thing, and there's a lot of peer pressure to conform to bad working hours.

    Don't get me wrong, I'll stay after work when absolutely necessary, but I know that money can't replace the time I lose.

    And weekend work at the end of a full work week is for chumps.

    I'm sure there are many people reading this who'll look at my hours and think I've got it cushty. And if that's the case, I suggest you take a long, hard look at your own working hours and weigh up what you value more: your work life or your personal life?
    Then start learning about working hours regulations in the country you live in and your legal rights. Chances are, your company's probably taking advantage of you, and thanks to fatigue, you're probably being less effective than you would be if you worked less hours.

    In brief: Fuck you Houser.

  9. #59
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: not here
    Exactly. The culture's part of the problem. I know I've asked people to come in on weekends a few times, or to stay back to get something mission critical done - but it's always been with the understanding that the choice was up to them and there would be no repercussions; if they didn't want to, nothing, least of all me, would oblige them to stay. If a company's workload regularly spills over to requiring overtime from staff (forecasts and contigency planning failing altogether notwithstanding - emergencies are emergencies), then management is simply doing it wrong, usually for a variety of reasons: lax hiring standards, improper delegation, miscalibrated time and motion studies, 'competitive' tradeoffs to win a contract, etc. If that sort of thing becomes status quo, your best bet is to get the hell out if you can, and find a better employer.

  10. #60
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Went for a QA (testing) job at a indie company in Melbourne. Told I'll only be paid 21k per year (that's below minimum wage here), over time is not payed for, and I'd have to buy my own work laptop with my own money on top of that. At the time was in a 45k a year job. So as much as I was eagerly wanting a job in the games industry, got a big no from me. It's annoying as that was the one games industry job (not counting working in a university teaching games development to students) that I got accepted for. Hard industry to get into, unless you create your own indie company.

    Got told at one interview, that technically I'm in the games industry already since I have a game on Steam, but to me that doesn't count.

  11. #61
    Level 10,000 achieved
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Finland
    One thing that got kinda lost in the Houser interview is that apparently they made "70 versions" of each trailer! Uh, then how come they were all so crap?

    For the second time in this thread I'm gonna link to RDR1's excellent debut trailer. R* used to know how to make great trailers, maybe they need to give editing-duties back to whoever used to make them instead of having a whole team iterate on the whole damn thing until it's a bland mess with no personality.

  12. #62
    PC Gamering Smartey Man
    I <3 consoles and gamepads

    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: New Zealand
    Retailer listing, so take with a grain of salt.
    https://www.vg247.com/2018/10/19/red...-2-2019-rumor/

  13. #63
    I don't see why there's so much doubt that they'll release a PC version. There's too much money in the PC market to not release it on PC. They'll just do what they did with GTA V and wait for everyone to buy it on consoles first.

  14. #64
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Rockstar has a spotty record of PC releases. It seems to take, what would be in their opinion, excessive resources to port it to PC adequately enough to avoid complaints. Complaints have been had for pretty much every Rockstar PC release ever. GTA 5 was the smoothest PC release and it wasn't pretty.

    Its pretty common for publishers to really have a good think about whether a PC release is worth the effort at all, which is why the porting market exists. Pay a company scraps to badly port a game to PC and just ignore complaints.

  15. #65
    PC Gamering Smartey Man
    I <3 consoles and gamepads

    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: New Zealand
    Quote Originally Posted by DaBeast View Post
    Rockstar has a spotty record of PC releases. It seems to take, what would be in their opinion, excessive resources to port it to PC adequately enough to avoid complaints. Complaints have been had for pretty much every Rockstar PC release ever. GTA 5 was the smoothest PC release and it wasn't pretty.
    Their PC ports have been solid since Max Payne 3. "it wasn't pretty"? GTA 5 PC runs like a dream for me and it received loads of praise at launch. Unless you mean primadonnas sperging over the Rockstar Social Club? It's trivial, completely not an issue unless you're actively looking for something to be upset over.

    Its pretty common for publishers to really have a good think about whether a PC release is worth the effort at all, which is why the porting market exists. Pay a company scraps to badly port a game to PC and just ignore complaints.
    Most Western AAA multi-plats on PC have been solid for whole of the 8th console gen. There's the occasional outlier but they're few and far in-between.

    It's mostly the odd Japanese developer who're still struggling with PC ports these days. Maybe framerate capped to 60fps, 1080p being the highest supported res, no ultrawide support.

  16. #66
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Quote Originally Posted by EvaUnit02 View Post
    Their PC ports have been solid since Max Payne 3. "it wasn't pretty"? GTA 5 PC runs like a dream for me and it received loads of praise at launch. Unless you mean primadonnas sperging over the Rockstar Social Club? It's trivial, completely not an issue unless you're actively looking for something to be upset over.
    Try to remember that while you may have a seamless experience, you aren't everyone. From my own memory, everything since Bully has been rife with problems that eventually get patched to a playable state, it's a stretch to call it perfect. Even GTA 5 threw a hissy fit if you were even slightly overclocked.


    Most Western AAA multi-plats on PC have been solid for whole of the 8th console gen. There's the occasional outlier but they're few and far in-between.

    Quote Originally Posted by EvaUnit02
    It's mostly the odd Japanese developer who're still struggling with PC ports these days. Maybe framerate capped to 60fps, 1080p being the highest supported res, no ultrawide support.
    AAA Multiplat gaming on PC has felt kinda sparse lately, when I see one released I tend to see a lot of whining about it being an unplayable mess, and not in the "I'm running a Pentium 1, why can't I get 100FPS!!!!", but actual crippling bugs on even high end gear. I'll agree in that they do seem to be making more of an effort with the port, some publishers ...not so much.

    I tend to peruse steam rather than look at games media, maybe the PC releases are buried under the dearth of shovelware and it isn't as light on AAA as I think.

  17. #67
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: not here
    It's true that the ports have had less issues since around Max Payne 3, though. I remember GTA 4 being generally unoptimised, for instance, but GTA 5's actually fairly scalable and runs well in contrast. As for AAA releases, depends on your perspective. There is more shovelware than AAA on Steam by a large margin, but the machine keeps grinding out the games at a pace that I doubt has ever actually flagged.

  18. #68
    PC Gamering Smartey Man
    I <3 consoles and gamepads

    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: New Zealand
    Between 2011-2016 100 hour working weeks at Rockstar San Diego weren't mandatory... but 80 hr weeks sure were. https://kotaku.com/inside-rockstar-g...mpression=true

  19. #69
    Level 10,000 achieved
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Finland
    The review embargo is up, and the consensus seems to be... QUITE GOOD. (97% avg)

    https://www.metacritic.com/game/play...ption-2?ref=hp

    Me? Pre-ordered and pre-loading. And I got aaaaaall of next week off from work.


  20. #70
    Administrator
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: above the clouds
    I ordered a physical copy which should appear tomorrow, yet I think there will be a lot of extra data downloading overnight...

    Watched Jim Sterling's Jimpressions - he thought it was great, but commented on the realism being potentially awkward for him at least.



    I know I keep posting him but he's actually the only gaming person I can be bothered to watch...

  21. #71
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2012
    Location: Taffing in a pub
    Just waiting for Mr Postman to drop this through the letter-box, can't wait to play this on the PS PRO...

  22. #72
    Administrator
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: above the clouds
    Short note after this evening's session - I feel it looks pretty marvellous on a standard PS4, so no concerns for people who don't have a Pro.

    Once I'd got to Horseshoe overlook, I went into town - Valentine - and went through the first bar brawl. Afterwards I was trying to leave town and suddenly I was chased by the law for no reason that I could see. I died trying to escape and got stuck with a bounty I can't pay off yet. It seems odd that I could die and still have the bounty. Leaving town again I got held up by some Irish dudes, shot one and had to run away again, so a rough day for Arthur. Will have to figure out how to solve the bounty problem...

    I'd also like to know how to store things on my horse - the game hasn't been too obvious in informing me as it has with everything else.

  23. #73
    Level 10,000 achieved
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Finland
    AFAIK you can store animal carcases, skins, and people on the back of your horse, everything else you can just carry with you.

    While we're trading tips can anyone tell me how to wash my filthy face? I'm a dirty feller.

    Here's a bit of gameplay from a couple missions, mostly in first person. I like the first person view(also is this an ImmSim now? discuss). If you do the stealth bits in first person it feels kinda like Thief 2014. Which, y'know, might be a pro or a con.


  24. #74

  25. #75
    Administrator
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: above the clouds
    Quote Originally Posted by henke View Post

    While we're trading tips can anyone tell me how to wash my filthy face? I'm a dirty feller.
    Have you tried taking a bath at the Hotel? I saw the option come up when renting a room.

    I’ve started disabling the radar because I was looking at it too much. On missions the characters will suggest where to go - it actually happened on that mission in your clip where you take the ladies into town. You press down on the d-pad to check the hud.

    @froghawk - does make me think the internal management processes are quite broken and people’s enthusiasm is being shamelessly exploited. And the positive feelings within the teams is exploited where people don’t want to let each other down. Considering how much money the company makes it’s quite shameful. Hire more people, hire actually competent managers who aren’t glorified slave drivers?

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