TTLG|Thief|Bioshock|System Shock|Deus Ex|Mobile

View Poll Results: How long will Trump be President?

Voters
143. You may not vote on this poll
  • 1 Term (4 Years)

    26 18.18%
  • 2 Terms (8 Years)

    50 34.97%
  • 1st Term Impeachment/Assassination

    50 34.97%
  • 2nd Term Impeachment/Assassination

    4 2.80%
  • I don't know what's going on!

    13 9.09%
Page 11 of 553 FirstFirst ... 678910111213141516212631364146515661111261511 ... LastLast
Results 251 to 275 of 13821

Thread: ✮✮✮ !Trump Dump! ✮✮✮

  1. #251
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2010
    Location: A Former Forest
    Shark jumped faetal.

  2. #252
    LittleFlower
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Netherlands
    Sometimes problems can not be named, because of political correctness.
    Sometimes politicians do name those problems anyway.
    But even then, politicians can propose different solutions for such a problem.

    The fact that two politicians name the same problem, does not mean their opinions for a solution are the same. There is a difference between "we should have protectionist laws for our economy" and "let's nuke all foreign countries, so they won't bother us anymore". You might think that both politicians are naming the same problem, and trying to solve it, and therefor they are the same. But in reality, there is a subtle difference ...

  3. #253
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Okay, let's drill through this gish galloped bullshit, and address one thing:

    Supports racist educational policy of Common Core
    First off, how is Common Core racist at all? Secondly, how could Sanders support it on the federal level, when it's a per-state initiative? It's like Cruz getting tying himself in a knot over it, screaming that he'd repeal every word, despite the fact that neither he nor anyone else in the federal government has any say or control over it.

    I think all the controversy surrounding Common Core works as a good litmus test to how shrill and easily frightened some people can be over the stupidest crap. HOLY SHIT, GUYS! SOMETHING THE STATES HAVE BEEN DOING FOR DECADES IS BEING DONE AGAIN! THIS IS RACIST SOCIALIST COMMUNIST WELFARE STATE REGRESSIVE PROGRESSIVE TYRANNY! WELCOME TO OBAMA'S AMERICA!

    I can probably also rather safely assume that the rest of your little listicle is all based upon similarly spun half-truths and gross misconceptions, and can safely ignore it as all noise, no signal.

  4. #254
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    I flat ignored the stupid list because it front loaded each entry with adjectives added by the author and didn't provide links or info about the actual items.

  5. #255
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    ...but he said "racist"! He used the race card! Isn't the race card what you Drones of the Left all get your panties up in a wad over? I guess you all only call out racists when it's not your guys, which makes you all hypocrites!

    Ahh, internet logic.

  6. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by faetal View Post
    Ok, so straw men, completely ignoring what I actually said then. Great.
    Again, and read this slowly as I know it hurts you to concentrate, the REASON Trump was compared to Hitler, was that he SPECIFICALLY said that Muslims in the US should be registered and tracked, which some people think can be compared to what Hitler imposed on Jews and other minorities in Germany.

    Almost everything else you are saying is wild, incoherent tilting at windmills and assuming that because you heard one or more people you have designated as The Left saying these things, then that means that everyone who has any modicum of support for Sanders or disdain for Trump are somehow fungible. Do you maybe think that if before you hit "Post reply", you counted to ten and did some breathing exercises, then maybe you might be able to get close to something resembling dialectic discussion? Or does that just not feel as gratifying as doing the "Here's the problem with you lefties" rant?
    Oh the irony....

    It is intentionally deceptive to claim that the "put a yellow star on Muslims" is why Trump is painted that way. The "Trump is a raging racist" meme existed long before the remark you're referring to and I know that you're not so stupid as to believe otherwise.

    Besides which..again. Notice how Trump can say that and you get a media shark attack...

    Whereas Clinton suggested that the US have "camps for adults" where people where people would be forced to talk to each other and nobody bats an eye

    No, I'm not making that up.




    Same deal with the violence at Trump rallies. Someone pepper sprays a protestor who swung first, and it's proof that Trump rallies are "full of hateful, violent people".

    You have people physically mobbing a non-violent protestor at a Hillary rally and nobody covers it:

    http://theamericanmirror.com/video-p...y-she-is-evil/




    Are you smart enough to see what I'm getting at here?







    That's why the states NEEDS to elect either Sanders or Trump. Both are deeply flawed candidates, but they're also outside the control of the "elite minority" that faetal thinks control the world. And wouldn't that be a good thing?
    Last edited by Tony_Tarantula; 17th Apr 2016 at 16:28.

  7. #257
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Tarantula View Post
    Whereas Clinton suggested that the US have "camps for adults" where people where people would be forced to talk to each other and nobody bats an eye

    No, I'm not making that up
    There are plenty of reasons, and I mean plenty, to dislike Hillary, but the whipped up controversy over ADULT CONCENTRATION CAMPS has to be the stupidest, stupidest, STUPIDEST things I've seen in my entire life.

    It's proof that some people will justify any hairbrained bullshit with just the slightest provocation, totally ignoring any context just to hit the panicky buzzwords. "She said camps? Like concentration camps? LIKE THE HOLOCAUST? WHERE ALL THOSE INNOCENT ZIONISTS WERE KILLED? HOLY CRAP, GUYS! HILLARY WANTS TO ROUND UP POLITICAL DISSIDENTS, AND LIQUIDATE THEM! GEORGE SOROS! GEORGE SOROS! GEORGE SOROS!"

    ...makes me wish I could beat the stupid out of people.

  8. #258
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Tarantula View Post
    If nothing else, this thread is illustrative of how powerful the left's marketing and branding are.

    Look at the reactions to Trump. People react by calling him Hitler, making slurs about Americans being racist, xenophobic, etc....every standard name in the big book of political labels.


    I share a video of Bernie Sanders saying Almost the exact same thing, only blaming it on the Koch Brothers and the result is a fairly reasonable and level headed dialogue about immigration policy.
    I responded by pointing out why THE HITLER COMPARISONS exist and asked you to provide a video of Sanders doing same.

    Your whole argument starts with a big piece of flawed logic shoe-horned into a completely unsolicited "YOU KNOW WHY THE LEFT ARE BAD? I'LL TELL YOU WHY".
    It seems as though you just have to vomit out some kind of vitriolic and logically deranged attack on some archetypal The Left you have imagined every time your unfocussed annoyance reaches a certain threshold. Your attempts at being condescending are cute, but lack the key ingredient to really bite: some semblance that you grasp dialectic logic and understand what people are saying to you. It's like trying to debate with Microsoft's recent Twitter bot stuck in a loop about why The Left are awful. Dividing people into two distinct categories in order to try to charge a debate is high school debate club grade tedium.

  9. #259
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by faetal View Post
    It seems as though you just have to vomit out some kind of vitriolic and logically deranged attack on some archetypal The Left you have imagined every time your unfocussed annoyance reaches a certain threshold.
    It's actually a pretty common thing on the internets. You'll see people like Tony who gripe about The Left all the time, which usually includes everyone involved in politics, save for the people they like, who stand up for The Truth.

    A damn weird thing, seeing mainstream politics dominated by conspiracy theory.

  10. #260
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    I'm usually of the opinion that there's plenty of real reasons to skewer politicians and positions we don't need to invent sensational conspiratorial ones.

    One thing I don't like about the tenor of this election is how much criticism of one side is predicated on uncritical loyalty bordering on dogmatic fanaticism to another side. Whatever happened to the grand American tradition of cynicism and total distrust across the board as -good- things?

    Politicians are blowhard asses. It's part of the job. Sincerity and honesty in the name of an inflexible dogma is the thing you should worry about. Give me a flexible compromising open hypocrit that wants to see the most public good made out of a bad situation any day (within legal boundaries), and watch everyone with equal skepticism.

  11. #261
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by demagogue View Post
    I'm usually of the opinion that there's plenty of real reasons to skewer politicians and positions we don't need to invent sensational conspiratorial ones.
    You need the wild theories when the things worth criticizing are what you're FOR.

  12. #262
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrian View Post
    You need the wild theories when the things worth criticizing are what you're FOR.
    I'm of the opinion that the realm of politics should be viewed with an entirely rational eye, devoid of any passion or dogma. Political fervor rarely ever leads to good things.

  13. #263
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    I should clarify one thing from my post, what I mean by a term like "hypocrisy." It's not the term I'd use for something; it's the term others use.

    In my experience, that charge is often used by self-appointed ideological police when a candidate backs down from a dogma in order to do the right thing. Then they get slammed for backing down as being hypocritical. The textbook case is Bush I getting slammed for raising taxes when he vowed "read my lips, no new taxes." Ok granted he set himself up by using that unfortunate phrase, but at the time it was absolutely the right thing to do, even from a conservative perspective, and people shouldn't be punished for doing the right thing, especially when circumstances change from when the vow was made. He should have been rewarded for it by getting reelected. (Footnote: It wasn't so bad Clinton got elected so he could resuscitate the Dems & bring them back to reality though. The GOP needs that now, but I'm not expecting a Clinton-like leader able to do it.)

    But more generally, anyway, I think the best metric for criticizing politicians is the public good, not slavish devotion to a dogma whatever the outcome.

    And even in saying the "public good", the way to measure that is empirically. Is general welfare really improving, including for the most vulnerable members of society? And not just something you mouth-off as a reflexive sound bite, but something you can point to hard statistics for. Because there are a lot of people that claim harms, like some vulnerable class is getting exploited just by working for a company (far left nuttery) or taxes and public services are literally a form of slavery (tin-foil hat libertarianism), but they're not talking about anything you could actually measure happening to actual people on the ground... as if capitalism nanorays are literally exploiting working people when they go to work, or tax nanorays are enslaving tax payers just by getting a notice from the IRS. If there's evidence, it's the equivalent of some stop light in heaven turning red -- it's exploitation or slavery by definition -- but the statistics of their general welfare tell a different story, that they wouldn't have decent standard of living without markets and taxes/public services working together.

  14. #264
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    Demagogue - that's one of my bug bears in political dialogue - the idea that "sticking to one's guns" is some kind of admirable leaderly trait. It's like Thatcher's classic "The lady's not for turning" sound bite, which basically is as good as saying that representative democracy is actually about choosing a dictator. A politician which changes their mind based on appropriate reasons is a good politician. One who says "I'm staying the course" (in the face of well-reasoned resistance and/or evidence) in a faux commander style to impress those who get a kick out of things which sound strong, is a shitty one.

  15. #265
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Lockdown... if only
    Sometimes sticking to your guns is the right thing to do and sometimes it isn't. When Paul Volcker (with Reagan's backing) raised interest rates to >20% and made the Fed the most hated institution on the planet, it was the right thing to do. When Lyndon Johnson kept doubling down and increasing troop levels in Vietnam, it wasn't. Among US Presidents, some of the best have stuck to their guns and some of the worst have as well.

    Re: Bush tax hike, it wasn't just reneging on the tax pledge that angered the Republican Party, it was how he handled it. The budget negotiation wasn't coordinated with Republican leaders in Congress, who found out after the deal was made with the Democratic leadership, and they felt he betrayed them.

    And it wasn't just the ideological right who thought it was a bad idea. The tax increase wasn't popular among Keynesians on the Left who were opposed to raising taxes in the middle of a recession. And it wasn't popular among the general population because it included raising the gas tax at a time when gas prices had been going up ever since Iraq invaded Kuwait.

    Bush lost that election because he was the scapegoat for declining economic conditions throughout his term and for public dissatisfaction with divided government that wasn't producing any positive economic policy. The real estate and stock market booms that started in the 1980s had ended. When the real estate bubble burst, there was a banking crisis in which something like half of all S&Ls went bankrupt and plenty of regular banks too, resulting in a very unpopular government bailout. Inflation was a problem during most of Bush's term which kept the Fed from providing monetary stimulus. Unemployment was still going up in the middle of the campaign despite there being a "recovery". A lot of manufacturing jobs were lost during his term, and we kept hearing about layoffs in the news over and over, especially in the blue chips that provided the economic base for a lot of towns. It wasn't 2010, but it wasn't good. And we had divided government with the parties blaming everything on each other.

    That opened the door for the only viable third party candidate since TR. Poss Perot was dominating in the polls at one point, which tells you something about just how dissatisfied people were with both parties back then. If he hadn't gone unstable, dropped out, and re-entered, he very well might have won.

    Public sentiment this year reminds me a lot of 1992, especially economic populism and anti-establishment. And Donald Trump's candidacy reminds somewhat of Ross Perot.

  16. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by faetal View Post
    I responded by pointing out why THE HITLER COMPARISONS exist and asked you to provide a video of Sanders doing same.

    Your whole argument starts with a big piece of flawed logic shoe-horned into a completely unsolicited "YOU KNOW WHY THE LEFT ARE BAD? I'LL TELL YOU WHY".
    No, I'm telling you that the "THE HITLER COMPARISONS"(sic) existed before the event you say caused them, ergo you can not be correct.I'm also saying that you are being intentionally dishonest because you know damn well that what I say is correct.

    You running off on an unrelated rant to try to deflect attention is also notable for it's vitriol.

    Also what's funny is that I only mentioned "branding". What I'm saying is that it's remarkable how people can say the exact same thing but be treated entirely differently due to how identity politics work.

    It's actually a pretty common thing on the internets. You'll see people like Tony who gripe about The Left all the time, which usually includes everyone involved in politics, save for the people they like, who stand up for The Truth.
    Nothing of the sort. The people I actually like aren't in the running for any kind of political office. Also I find it hilarious that you're buying his schtick about "griping about the left", when the only time I've actually mentioned the left was to comment on how effective the Democrat Party's marketing in the US is.


    Sometimes sticking to your guns is the right thing to do and sometimes it isn't. When Paul Volcker (with Reagan's backing) raised interest rates to >20% and made the Fed the most hated institution on the planet, it was the right thing to do. When Lyndon Johnson kept doubling down and increasing troop levels in Vietnam, it wasn't. Among US Presidents, some of the best have stuck to their guns and some of the worst have as well.
    Here's the thing though. No current career politician is EVER going to admit fault. It comes in no small degree from their backgrounds as lawyers (at least in the US) where one must never admit any kind of mistake or ever backtrack from a previous position. They're, quite literally, trained to think that way from the very first day they set foot in an undergraduate law class.

    Hell there's numerous examples. The European governments are utterly refusing to admit any mistake with the refugee situation, The US still refuses to back down from it's disastrous "regime change in Syria" policy, China refuses to admit any problem with it's no counterproductive economic policies, and so on.

    Governments will never do anything other than "sticking to their guns", because they have neither the humility, nor the intellectual capacity, nor the political capacity to do so(it's viewed as giving ammunition to opposition parties).

  17. #267
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    Whether there were Hitler comparisons before he made those comments could be (there may also have been before you were aware there were any - no one is omniscient), but the comparisons exploded and became common parlance afterwards. More importantly, the comparisons gained credibility when he made those comments, rather than just being a lazy and generic way of exaggerating perceived racism, the purposeful labelling and surveillance of one religious or ethnic group is very different to wanting to clamp down on immigration.

    You use the most remedial debating tactics because you aren't interested in exchanging ideas to reach a better understanding, you want to win an argument to solidify your interest which is "The Left are bad". First of all, you need to set up this idea that there is a large, fungible entity with whom you take issue, which you denote as The Left. Because this is fundamental to your "argument", you ignore when anyone says that it is a stupid basis for debate, you simply keep using the terms. Then you just start tilting at windmills with silly things like "this is why it's funny when the left think of X as perfect" to set yourself up for showing that it's not perfect, shoe-horning in some false equivalence (here are bad things said or done by X) and then declaring X to be as bad as Y and therefore The Left are awful. It's like you're trying to tick off as many logical fallacies as possible to claim some highscore.

    You think it helps to posture yourself as some kind of authority like you do all of the time, with your "I know this from stuff in the military I can't talk about" (back in the CCCToad days) or "I know this from a family friend who is a big shot city investor whose name I can't mention" nuggets, which people are just supposed to take on trust from a guy who uses cheap tricks to try to win cheap arguments. Don't mistake my exasperation for vitriol either. This over the top adolescent elaboration of your personal dislike for this monolithic Left which exists in your mind as an outlet for god knows what is like some arcane code running on the forum without any real sense of purpose. You shoe-horn in objections to The Left, SJWs, atheists - whoever you decide are the problem in your intolerant little world and when questioned, just bait and switch, move the goal posts or rely on bullshit lists where you've loaded the terms to suit your purpose.

    It's really tiresome.

  18. #268
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Iacon
    10 years from now, there will be two people left in the final, forgotten dust of commchat. Tony Tiger, forever relentless in his dedication to bad ideology, makes his eleven trillionth ridiculous comment about leftists or feminists or whatever. In response a, bedraggled, unshaven Faetal finally collapses from exhaustion.
    Last edited by Chimpy Chompy; 19th Apr 2016 at 14:21.

  19. #269
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Lockdown... if only
    Tony, the simple fact is that they are NOT saying the exact same thing. If Trump had just voiced opposition to free trade agreements and open borders, he wouldn't have attracted the labels of racist and xenophobe and we wouldn't be having this argument. Your position is absurdly reductionist, implying that if two candidates share any common ground then they are the same, which is not true for any common or reasonable definition of 'same'. It became even more absurd when you quoted some random Clinton astroturf piece that was so chock full of obvious baloney that it didn't even need debunking. You frequently discredit your arguments by linking or quoting stuff from the least credible sources.

  20. #270
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    Quote Originally Posted by Chimpy Chompy View Post
    10 years from now, the final dust of commchat will be Tony Tiger saying something ridiculous about leftists or feminists or whatever, and a poor, bedraggled, unshaven Faetal finally collapsing in exhaustion.
    I laughed.

  21. #271
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    Quote Originally Posted by heywood View Post
    You frequently discredit your arguments by linking or quoting stuff from the least credible sources.
    Suspicion that the most credible ones don't support his arguments.

  22. #272
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2008
    Location: in your second eyelids
    Too lazy to read all this, so just a question: does everyone here agree that political correctness is retarded?

  23. #273
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by Thor
    Too lazy to read all this, so just a question: does everyone here agree that political correctness is retarded cognitively disadvantaged?
    Fixed that for you, you uncouth bastard.

  24. #274
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: not here
    I say, that's still implying a negative attribute or handicap there, old chap. Surely you mean neurovariable or neurodiverse individuals, you insensitive word harrumpher.


    *speaking of handicaps, I rendered my right hand unusable for a month after getting it accidentally gouged to fuckall by a shattering glass bottle. I'm a southpaw convert now -- stick that in your craw, rightie activists!

  25. #275
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    You're right. I shall flagellate myself while watching The View as penance for my gross lack of empathy,

Page 11 of 553 FirstFirst ... 678910111213141516212631364146515661111261511 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •